MacDonald riding with Geno

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keasley45

keasley45

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i
He isn't playing like the same guy he was at the Rams. Goff got better, significantly.
Its like McVay said - Goff is great when the team around him and his protection is good.
McVay wanted someone who could win even when things werent ideal.

Stafford won a SB with sub-ideal support in LA.

Goff went to Detroit under Lynn his first year and was mediocre.

He didnt play significantly better until Johnson came along and they solidified the line.

He may be better by virtue of experience, but he is 100% a product of his environment. As is Geno.
 
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SoulfishHawk

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He's a tough s.o.b. too. He was a couple brutal Dan Campbell decision from going to his second SB last year. And that was a road game.
 
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keasley45

keasley45

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He is no more clutch than Geno. They have the same number of game winning drives this year, Geno has more since he has been starter, and when they have played head to head, Geno has looked like the better player. Goff got fat off of a JV seahawks defense this year. Geno carved up Detroit, just like he did last year.

And he has shown to not play as well when he doesnt have the leagues no1 ranked line blocking for him.

Goff will wilt under pressure. But dont take my word for it. Ask McVay.
 

SoulfishHawk

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Yes, he is absolutely more clutch than Geno. We can respectfully agree to disagree.
Geno has a bunch of "comeback wins" against average to crap teams. He's never even won a playoff game.
Until I see different, I stick to my opinion. Not clutch until he does those things against ELITE teams and/or in the playoffs.
 

CallMeADawg

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Yes, he is absolutely more clutch than Geno. We can respectfully agree to disagree.
Geno has a bunch of "comeback wins" against average to crap teams. He's never even won a playoff game.
Until I see different, I stick to my opinion. Not clutch until he does those things against ELITE teams and/or in the playoffs.
Goff quite literally couldn’t beat the Pats in the SB because he didn’t know what he was doing on the field. That Rams D completely carried him there.
 

Maelstrom787

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And because he was light years better than gePICK ever has been or ever will be. Best QB in the team history, SB champion and borderline HOF QB. Geno is none of those things.
I mean, alright, but aren't we discussing the *reasons* behind how much supporting cast/offensive philosophy/etc. affects or does not affect quarterback performance?

No one compared the caliber of Geno and Russ. The point was simply that quarterbacks happen to do better when the rest of the offense is not able to be sufficiently neutralized by opposing defenses.
 

Maelstrom787

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Funny. So, he had nothing to do with them making the SB. Got it.

Geno hasn't even sniffed a single playoff win.
No, he did.

It just so happens that he played well enough to make one when he had an elite defense and elite rushing game to help him.

When he didn't have those assists, he had seasons like Geno had this year.

Now he's on the Lions and he's putting up the same performances because their rushing attack is killer, their offensive line is destroying defenses, and their entire team is punishingly physical.

The pattern is obvious to me.
 

SoulfishHawk

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I mean, alright, but aren't we discussing the *reasons* behind how much supporting cast/offensive philosophy/etc. affects or does not affect quarterback performance?

No one compared the caliber of Geno and Russ. The point was simply that quarterbacks happen to do better when the rest of the offense is not able to be sufficiently neutralized by opposing defenses.
Fair enough. Not going down this road again. Other than......Goff succeeds, it's because of the defense and running game. Same with Russ.
Geno fails; it's often and somehow someone else's fault. Just excuse after excuse. I've made my point, too many times.
Go Hawks
 
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keasley45

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Yes, he is absolutely more clutch than Geno. We can respectfully agree to disagree.
Geno has a bunch of "comeback wins" against average to crap teams. He's never even won a playoff game.
Until I see different, I stick to my opinion. Not clutch until he does those things against ELITE teams and/or in the playoffs.
He has also never had a no1 line to play behind or a Ben Johnson calling plays for him.

And we have seen how well Goff does when he has 'Geno-like' help up front and calling plays for him.


In case you missed it.

Meanwhile, in Seattle...


But keep on dragging down your qb and ignoring how much he has done with imposter OCs and a turnstile of an O line.

You guys crack me up.
 

CallMeADawg

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No, he did.

It just so happens that he played well enough to make one when he had an elite defense and elite rushing game to help him.

When he didn't have those assists, he had seasons like Geno had this year.

Now he's on the Lions and he's putting up the same performances because their rushing attack is killer, their offensive line is destroying defenses, and their entire team is punishingly physical.

The pattern is obvious to me.
Exactly!
 
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keasley45

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Yup. You can look back at his career and his peaks and valleys coincide directly with who was OC, hiw the line played, and how well the rush game was.

But here, its not even enough that his coach said he let him go because he wasnt great when things werent ideal... No. Jared Goff Is GOD.

And despite the fact that Geno has made lemonade form lemons the likes of which got Goff fired, team GeNo still doesnt wanna hear it.
 

CallMeADawg

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He has also never had a no1 line to play behind or a Ben Johnson calling plays for him.

And we have seen how well Goff does when he has 'Geno-like' help up front and calling plays for him.


In case you missed it.

Meanwhile, in Seattle...


But keep on dragging down your qb and ignoring how much he has done with imposter OCs and a turnstile of an O line.

You guys crack me up.
If they would just stop for a moment and analyze any of this they might, just might, realize that Geno isn’t exactly that bad.

The idea that Rams Goff was some stud that took his team to the SB is hilarious. There’s a reason he was gone that offseason. The Rams weren’t going to win a SB with their roster and Goff.
 

SoulfishHawk

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Damn, guys. You're getting bent out of shape over the smallest stuff. We're just talking QB's and our opinions. It's not some huge tragedy. Relax.
I'm not trying to argue or stir stuff up. Just voicing my opinion, like you are.
We will never agree, welcome to QB in the NFL. This is how it is with the QB position. Some believe in the starter, some don't.
✌️ ✌️ ✌️
 
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keasley45

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If they would just stop for a moment and analyze any of this they might, just might, realize that Geno isn’t exactly that bad.

The idea that Rams Goff was some stud that took his team to the SB is hilarious. There’s a reason he was gone that offseason. The Rams weren’t going to win a SB with their roster and Goff.
Yup. Even Detroit Goff pre- Johnson was mediocre.

And the silly thing is, Geno has better accuracy, leads everybody in lowest bad pass%, gets more pressure than Goff but takes about the same number of hits, and he has the # 30th ranked line while according to this ranking, Goff has #6.


Hello???

If a guy can throw more accurate passes behind crap for protection than one who has some of, if not THE best protection in the league, that SHOULD say something.

But somehow team GeNo doesnt buy that he could at minimum be comparable to Goff overall if he had 'Goff-like' support. I mean, in some really telling areas, he already IS better than Goff with crap line play and no OC.

Screenshot 20250106 092642 Chrome
 

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They absolutely don't watch other QBs on a regular basis and when they do they are laser focused on seeing whatever success they don't think Geno can generate and oblivious/make excuses for any issues.

When Lock stepped in for Geno last year, one of the things you saw in multiple posts here was about how at least he seemed to avoid sacks better than Geno. He actually was more prone to taking sacks. Whoops.

Every time Geno missed a pass this year, you could see people harp on how he's the problem. "You all want to throw Grubb or the O-Line under the bus, but if Geno didn't miss such and such throw" or whatever. Of course, it turns out, Geno was the most accurate QB in the NFL this year. Whoops.

Got into a discussion with somebody who specifically highlighted how Geno takes sacks on 3rd and longs and how you don't see Matt Stafford taking sacks in those situations. Stafford has more sacks on less attempts than Geno this year in 3rd and 10+. Whoops.



Like clockwork. Any time it's pointed out how little support Geno has gotten from his O-Line, running game, OC, etc.: "When are you going to stop making excuses for him?"

The moment it's pointed out he's actually outplayed *Insert X QB With Some Name Recognition*: "Well *Insert X* doesn't have any weapons!"

I'm trying to figure out how Geno exists in this weird fugue state where 2 out of his top 3 receivers and his number 1 TE are all not worth their contracts, his RBs have consistently had one of the most underperforming running games in the entire league for 3 seasons running, and yet he also has more weapons at the skill positions than apparently every other QB in the entire NFL.

And, personally, I would take our receiving corps over the Texans', but Stroud also had way more support from his running game, was asked to do way less than Geno was as a QB, and had the exact same Offensive Coordinator as he did last season (who's also been coaching in the NFL for the last 8 years instead of a rookie). Either all that stuff matters or none of it does. You can't preach about how all that stuff is excuses and then hide behind 'weapons' the moment it suits you.

Nobody would take Geno Smith in his mid 30s with his contract over CJ Stroud in his 20 with his contract. Not even me.

But Geno Smith would absolutely have done just as well--probably better--in Houston these last 2 years, especially this year. Stroud finally didn't have a week to decide what to do with the ball on every pass play and *surprise!* it's actually a lot harder to look like an amazing QB when you're dealing with instant pressure every other snap.
I don't think being the guy who replaced Mr Unlimited helped with a good chunk of fans. That subset of fans was never gonna accept whoever was next.
 
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keasley45

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I don't think being the guy who replaced Mr Unlimited helped with a good chunk of fans. That subset of fans was never gonna accept whoever was next.

Yup. Especially not a washed up, career backup who received 'preferential treatment' from PC in his competition to win the job from Drew Lock.

Oddly though, i think there is a faction that would have been just fine going 9-8 and 10-7 with Lock at the helm. His failures would be seen entirely differently.

Same would go for a guy like Trevor Lawrence.
 
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