MacDonald riding with Geno

[pittpnthrs]

I dont think Mac would look at this season as such a disappointment if he didnt think Geno and the offense were capable of significantly more. I also dont think *significantly better than 10-7 is 11-6 or 12-5. We had 11-6 in our hands with a win against the Giants and instead decided to throw 87% of downs against a defense that wasnt great at stopping the run.

Also, I think the fact that Geno is as good as he has made it easy to discern exactly what was wrong with the offense and why it ultimately failed.

When you have a qb who on 80+ percent of his throws is dead to rights accurate and throws directly to your guys 98.4 percent of the time (on his own), system failures are obvious.

And when you have a qb who throws an accurate ball 80+ percent of the time and only hits the other guys (on his own) 1.6% of the time, you can win a lot of games if everything else is working.

He also had the 2nd most 4th qtr comebacks and tied for 4th in game winning drives. And as Mac said, if they held serve against the Vikings, he would have had another one. And that's to say nothing for the 4th qtr drives that should have been against the Giants and the OT comeback we gave to the Rams.

People seem to lose sight of the fact that Geno dropped back to pass 630 times (3rd most in the league) this year when you take into account his attempts and sacks and did so with an ineffective offensive scheme, ineffective protection and a running game that was kept on the shelf and wasnt scaring anyone.

As analytics based as Mac is, I guarantee you that's how he sees Geno. If he didnt, he wouldnt be so steadfast in his praise for him and quick to talk down the picks.

And i'm sure that yes, they dont see Geno slinging the rock for them 4 years from now. But he and John are also about to go into contract negotiations with Geno, so tipping your hand with statements like ' we want Geno here as long as we can have him' when the goal is to get him for a decent number and on a contract with a near term out given his age, would be idiotic negotiating tactics. Better to leave it at 'Right now'.

In praising Geno as he does, talking down the INTs, firing Grubb, and simultaneously pinning the disappointment of the season on his offense and OC, he has gone about as far as he can in showing support for the QB without handing negotiating leverage to his side.

Its a cat and mouse game, no different than Geno saying the team will be ok whether or not he is here. Neither side can appear too eager.

How long do you think they want to keep Geno? I'm looking at it this way, the team is 2 to 3 years away from building anything resembling a Super Bowl contender and that's if they are lucky. I don't see Geno being in those plans. Yeah Seattle won 10 games this season, but they never beat anybody of real substance. Also I don't want to continue with capping on Geno, but the brain farts he consistenly displays is something nobody can fix.

He's not the answer going forward, but the team really doesn't have any choice right now but to go with him.

 

[Ostatehawk]

This. Who is saying Howell should be the starter? I bet it's a very select few. If Geno is back, he needs to be the starter.

Exactly - if Howell was better than Geno he would already be the starter.

Does Howell have some potential?? Maybe - hard to gauge. He dealt with a real shit show in Commanderland and got, what, 20 in game snaps for the Seahawks? I figure he is still mostly an unknown. SO if he is cheap, and sticks around, I'm ok with it if someone sees some potential in him.

 

[Jegpeg]

This. Who is saying Howell should be the starter? I bet it's a very select few. If Geno is back, he needs to be the starter.

Probably true but there is a lot of time between now and the start of next season.

If we get a QB in the lower rounds of the draft who out plays Geno pre season then we we should start him. It is unlikely but it happened in 2012.

 

[Natethegreat]

If Mcdonald thought Howell was better he would have been starting. I think the vast majority all realize this. At the very least Geno has a better arm and is more accurate than Howell.
It does come to a point when Geno is not returning enough value on the investment( read cap space) and I do think it would be time to forge a different path whatever that may be. And that could very well be a lesser qualified QB at the helm but an overall better situation for the team as a whole moving forward.

 

[Jegpeg]

Exactly - if Howell was better than Geno he would already be the starter.

Does Howell have some potential?? Maybe - hard to gauge. He dealt with a real shit show in Commanderland and got, what, 20 in game snaps for the Seahawks? I figure he is still mostly an unknown. SO if he is cheap, and sticks around, I'm ok with it if someone sees some potential in him.

He is cheap, keeping Howell will cost $1.1m. I think it unlikely (not impossible) that Howell becomes a decent starting QB so would like us to persue other options, draft a QB (probably on day 2 maybe day 3) and have him compete with Sam for the back up role, (and who knows even the starter if he does an RW3)

 

[JayhawkMike]

Give him a better O Line and have him cut WAYYYYYY back on the Interceptions or throws that SHOULD be picked and this team can do some damage.
All that being said, I'm not for him getting some pay raise and/or a new deal. No.

Sorry. More time with a better line wont change Genos decision making. We DO need a better OLine. But its positive impact on Mid Geno will be minimal.

 

[sutz]

Simple concept. You don't ditch the asset you have until you have a plan to replace him.

 

[JayhawkMike]

I just see most Geno supporters as those that have been perfectly satisfied with all the seasons since the Super Bowl loss. Good for you but for me I want a team that is a legit Super Bowl contender. Geno beat ZERO full strength playoff teams last year 1st Game Nix/2nd string Rams Was it. That won’t change with another year.

 

[keasley45]

There were some similarities though if we're being honest and you have to remember Howell was a rookie playing for a horrible team. A lot of the excuses we use for Geno this year if you're being consistent apply to Howell too. And Howell was in year one while Geno is in year 14 or whatever with a ton more experience to bank on.

Howell threw for almost 4,000 yards and had a 21/21 touchdown/int split. Real similar to Geno. Geno had a much higher completion percentage and a higher passer rating but Geno has a lower ADOT which helps in that regard too if I'm not mistaken.

Anyway my point remains. A lot of the same arguments used for Geno for over a decade are being used for Howell and Geno turned out pretty well. Geno was a disaster at times early in his career too.

You had to have watched him play. Without wasting too much time, take a look at this:



If you can watch that and honestly say that there is ANY similarity between Genos INTs and Howell's, i will fly to wherever you are, and buy you a round of drink.

I watched it and counted 3 or 4 picks that were either deflected or hit the wrs hands. That makes 17 or 18 that were legit just bad throws. Not his arm being hit, not his guys letting them bounce off their bodies, but just winding up, being oblivious to underneath coverage and tossing it up to be picked. Granted, there may be a few that were the result of a bad route, but that tape looks like a qb not seeing the field well.

Daniel Jeremiah just last week went and reviewed Geno' ints and attributed 8 to him... maybe 9 that were legit, unequivocally 'Howell' type INTs that were his fault alone.

So 9 vs 17 is a little more indicative of the real comparison of legitimate INT tallies.

In Howell's defense, Biememy didnt do Howell any favors, letting him pass more than 600 times last year.

Thats why i dont wanna hear the dude's nane mentioned in relation to our opening - not that Mac would entertain the idea.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Sorry. More time with a better line wont change Genos decision making. We DO need a better OLine. But its positive impact on Mid Geno will be minimal.

I'm trying brother, I really am

 

[Ozzy]

I might just say it for the free drink!

I don't think you're all wrong but man Geno had some horrible plays this year that is rare for a guy who's been in the league for 12 years. Were all of the picks on him? no and Daniels number of 8-9 seems fair. They also said a few could've been Geno's fault but its tough to know. He also had a few that should've been picked like in the chicago game again in the red zone that hit the defender right in the hands. Bottom line I agree with Macdonald, Geno has to do a better job protecting the football.

Like I said Howell played worse but he was a rookie thrown into a terrible situation while Geno is a 12 year vet. I would expect Geno to play a little better than Sam and I've watched some stuff from Geno when he was young, he was terrible for long stretches of time.

 

[chrispy]

MMac is going with Geno as starting QB. He's made that clear...for now. No question that, if a better option became available, he'd make a judgment call. MMac and JS are the decision makers on cost/benefit. From what I've heard, MMac feels like Geno is returning value. He doesn't speak openly about issues unless he's being straight...at least that's my take on him. So, the way I read it, MMac and JS feel like resources will have a higher return if invested elsewhere. With the limited information I have about int'd routes, scheme, rungame direction, OLine plan, extensions..., I'm comfortable moving into the offseason with that bird in hand. Being comfortable you have a starter on the roster makes it possible to try some low percentage shots for higher risk/reward options. I think the current QB situation is relatively good compared to most of the league and also provides a chance to get better without costing draft picks at other positions of need.

 

[keasley45]

I just see most Geno supporters as those that have been perfectly satisfied with all the seasons since the Super Bowl loss. Good for you but for me I want a team that is a legit Super Bowl contender. Geno beat ZERO full strength playoff teams last year 1st Game Nix/2nd string Rams Was it. That won’t change with another year.

Incorrect.

This team, with the last 4 years of OCs was incapable of beating any good teams. And before this year, you could lump the DC in their as well.

 

[oldhawkfan]

strong head wind though, When Macdonald and Schneider come to dotnet to gauge fan opinions. They will hear chanting of "Howell, Howell" and "any QB is better than GeNO".

Maybe shortly after the trade for Howell but not now.

 

[James in PA]

I just see most Geno supporters as those that have been perfectly satisfied with all the seasons since the Super Bowl loss. Good for you but for me I want a team that is a legit Super Bowl contender. Geno beat ZERO full strength playoff teams last year 1st Game Nix/2nd string Rams Was it. That won’t change with another year.

Bingo.

"OK, but who are you going to replace him with?"

I don't know. That's why John Schneider gets paid millions of dollars. Figure it out.

But I can guarantee you as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow: Even if Geno had a roster as good as the top two seeds in each conference this year, there is no way that guy is winning you a Super Bowl. No way.

 

[Ozzy]

I still think the Minnesota model is a possibility. Cousins was a very good quarterback for a much longer period than Geno has been and yet they still went another direction instead of paying him and it worked out very well. Darnold came in cheap, they used the money for some other areas and they had a monster year. Not saying Seattle is in the same position to do this but I'm at least open to it if John/Mike go that route. I'm also open to another year of Geno too if that's the best option.

For me the goal is a SB. Only two guys in history Geno's age have made it Brady and Manning. Geno isn't remotely close to those guys so if a SB is the goal I think its least reasonable to assume you have to do exactly what Minn did either this year or next. I think last year was probably the year to do it with so many really good QB's but they missed the oppurtunity.

 

[Lords of Scythia]

All he said was Geno is the best QB we have for next season. That doesn't mean it can't change after that.

 

[toffee]

Simple concept. You don't ditch the asset you have until you have a plan to replace him.

Nailed it,

 

[OrangeGravy]

I might just say it for the free drink!

I don't think you're all wrong but man Geno had some horrible plays this year that is rare for a guy who's been in the league for 12 years. Were all of the picks on him? no and Daniels number of 8-9 seems fair. They also said a few could've been Geno's fault but its tough to know. He also had a few that should've been picked like in the chicago game again in the red zone that hit the defender right in the hands. Bottom line I agree with Macdonald, Geno has to do a better job protecting the football.

Like I said Howell played worse but he was a rookie thrown into a terrible situation while Geno is a 12 year vet. I would expect Geno to play a little better than Sam and I've watched some stuff from Geno when he was young, he was terrible for long stretches of time.

The problem with this conversation is that those plays indeed do happen for all QBs in the league every season regardless how long they've been in the league. If you go back and watch every snap from every starter this season you will in fact see these very same type of bad plays in the same situations as Geno's from all of them. Some of those QBs got lucky and those plays didn't result in a pick, but they all make those boneheaded plays at times. They all make them in the redzone. WE are hyperfocsed on our guy and see every play. WE do not see every play from all the other teams. Those plays are even pretty rare for Geno considering how many bites at the apple he had.

You can watch a ton of football and you still aren't seeing enough plays from these QBs to pickup all of the bad throws and bad decisions they make every game. We all just watched Stafford, who everyone agrees is a better QB than Geno, throw 4 balls directly into the chest of a Cardinals defender in the first couple drives of that game and they dropped every single one of them. If that were Geno we'd be lamenting those throws despite the win that wrapped up the division.Those throws instantly get put in the delete file before the game is even over for most fans that aren't Rams fans. It wasn't even a talking point by the media heads.

That stuff happens every single week in most games by a lot of QBs, young and old, yet it only really gets noticed by the fans of that particular team AND people specifically breakdown QBs.

 

[Chukarhawk]

I dont think Mac would look at this season as such a disappointment if he didnt think Geno and the offense were capable of significantly more. I also dont think *significantly better than 10-7 is 11-6 or 12-5. We had 11-6 in our hands with a win against the Giants and instead decided to throw 87% of downs against a defense that wasnt great at stopping the run.

Also, I think the fact that Geno is as good as he has made it easy to discern exactly what was wrong with the offense and why it ultimately failed.

When you have a qb who on 80+ percent of his throws is dead to rights accurate and throws directly to your guys 98.4 percent of the time (on his own), system failures are obvious.

And when you have a qb who throws an accurate ball 80+ percent of the time and only hits the other guys (on his own) 1.6% of the time, you can win a lot of games if everything else is working.

He also had the 2nd most 4th qtr comebacks and tied for 4th in game winning drives. And as Mac said, if they held serve against the Vikings, he would have had another one. And that's to say nothing for the 4th qtr drives that should have been against the Giants and the OT comeback we gave to the Rams.

People seem to lose sight of the fact that Geno dropped back to pass 630 times (3rd most in the league) this year when you take into account his attempts and sacks and did so with an ineffective offensive scheme, ineffective protection and a running game that was kept on the shelf and wasnt scaring anyone.

As analytics based as Mac is, I guarantee you that's how he sees Geno. If he didnt, he wouldnt be so steadfast in his praise for him and quick to talk down the picks.

And i'm sure that yes, they dont see Geno slinging the rock for them 4 years from now. But he and John are also about to go into contract negotiations with Geno, so tipping your hand with statements like ' we want Geno here as long as we can have him' when the goal is to get him for a decent number and on a contract with a near term out given his age, would be idiotic negotiating tactics. Better to leave it at 'Right now'.

In praising Geno as he does, talking down the INTs, firing Grubb, and simultaneously pinning the disappointment of the season on his offense and OC, he has gone about as far as he can in showing support for the QB without handing negotiating leverage to his side.

Its a cat and mouse game, no different than Geno saying the team will be ok whether or not he is here. Neither side can appear too eager.

I don't think they are going to negotiate a new contract. They will let him play out the current one unless there is some cap advantage to it. The team is in a position of strength, he's already under contract and he won't command that much money in FA. Geno will be 35 years old next year. He's on the downside of his career.