Woolen: Paper Tiger?

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10:25 in, Woolen literally gave up the play and didn't put any effort into shoving the opponent out of bounds.

UNACCEPTABLE.


That’s the play I was referring to. Piss poor effort. Gave up on the play. What’s your excuse dude?! Can’t wait to hear it.

You are as far from being an LOB-type player as I can imagine for someone with your abilities.

Spoon? He would fit right in with the LOB.
 

Sperrydogg

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That’s the play I was referring to. Piss poor effort. Gave up on the play. What’s your excuse dude?! Can’t wait to hear it.

You are as far from being an LOB-type player as I can imagine for someone with your abilities.

Spoon? He would fit right in with the LOB.
Definitely not a beast of burden…. He has no problem letting someone else do the work
 

mistaowen

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Woolen is an interesting player from a long term plan/cap perspective. He's (deservedly?) going to want a payday as he's consistently been a top cover CB who can generate takeaways if challenged. Teams don't really test him deep which shrinks the field and makes playcalling easier. Problem is, he's about as soft as it gets at CB and you see him going half speed all the time. He also provides nothing on run D. Contrast that to guys like Witherspoon, Williams, and Love who are at 110% every single down and get recognized by MM as players who looks to tilt the field every snap. Riq doesn't have that fire. Not everyone needs to be that same 'alpha' like mentality but man does he look uninterested out there at times.

The long third down is a perfect example of the player he is. Deep zones and his responsibility likely is carry anything middle/deep along the sideline. He was flatfooted at the marker as the guy busted his ass trying to get ~25 yards and then when it came to making a tackle, he just stood there. On a hugely critical down he made zero effort to stop the guy short. That is so completely unacceptable, especially in a physical defense like Mike wants to run. Love immediately started chewing him out.

IMO he's the starter until there's a another cover guy who plays with Witherspoon's energy. Tre Brown lost his job after repeated bad weeks, so I know MM and staff aren't going to put up with poor play, especially effort. I don't know if you open the checkbook for him but he may want that since he's been paid peanuts based on his draft spot.
 
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Woolen is an interesting player from a long term plan/cap perspective. He's (deservedly?) going to want a payday as he's consistently been a top cover CB who can generate takeaways if challenged. Teams don't really test him deep which shrinks the field and makes playcalling easier. Problem is, he's about as soft as it gets at CB and you see him going half speed all the time. He also provides nothing on run D. Contrast that to guys like Witherspoon, Williams, and Love who are at 110% every single down and get recognized by MM as players who looks to tilt the field every snap. Riq doesn't have that fire. Not everyone needs to be that same 'alpha' like mentality but man does he look uninterested out there at times.

The long third down is a perfect example of the player he is. Deep zones and his responsibility likely is carry anything middle/deep along the sideline. He was flatfooted at the marker as the guy busted his ass trying to get ~25 yards and then when it came to making a tackle, he just stood there. On a hugely critical down he made zero effort to stop the guy short. That is so completely unacceptable, especially in a physical defense like Mike wants to run. Love immediately started chewing him out.

IMO he's the starter until there's a another cover guy who plays with Witherspoon's energy. Tre Brown lost his job after repeated bad weeks, so I know MM and staff aren't going to put up with poor play, especially effort. I don't know if you open the checkbook for him but he may want that since he's been paid peanuts based on his draft spot.

Spot on brotha.
 

HawkinNY

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He plays with no heart, gives up on plays, can't tackle, yet covers very well, and is very fast. If we can get him to finish plays and get physical, we pay him. If he stays soft and remains Reak we should trade him. He is not Prime Time. I am sure we can get a second maybe a first for him.
He’s more like prime time than you think. Sanders never tackled. Hardly hit anyone. He was one of if not the best cover corner of all time. But was not looking to hit anyone ever.
 
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I think it’s fairly unanimous. We all know he has talent. Tall, speedy, can cover anyone when he feels like it.

That’s the hitch.

When he feels like it.

No amount of raw talent matters if you don’t have that want to. That motor that never rests.

You can’t survive on talent alone. You have to have that killer instinct and perpetual motor that separates you from the average player. Spoon has that. Riq doesn’t. Year 3 it’s pretty obvious.
 

Sperrydogg

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Woolen is an interesting player from a long term plan/cap perspective. He's (deservedly?) going to want a payday as he's consistently been a top cover CB who can generate takeaways if challenged. Teams don't really test him deep which shrinks the field and makes playcalling easier. Problem is, he's about as soft as it gets at CB and you see him going half speed all the time. He also provides nothing on run D. Contrast that to guys like Witherspoon, Williams, and Love who are at 110% every single down and get recognized by MM as players who looks to tilt the field every snap. Riq doesn't have that fire. Not everyone needs to be that same 'alpha' like mentality but man does he look uninterested out there at times.

The long third down is a perfect example of the player he is. Deep zones and his responsibility likely is carry anything middle/deep along the sideline. He was flatfooted at the marker as the guy busted his ass trying to get ~25 yards and then when it came to making a tackle, he just stood there. On a hugely critical down he made zero effort to stop the guy short. That is so completely unacceptable, especially in a physical defense like Mike wants to run. Love immediately started chewing him out.

IMO he's the starter until there's an another cover guy who plays with Witherspoon's energy. Tre Brown lost his job after repeated bad weeks, so I know MM and staff aren't going to put up with poor play, especially effort. I don't know if you open the checkbook for him but he may want that since he's been paid peanuts based on his draft spot.
Too bad we lost DJ Reed
 

OrangeGravy

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Woolen is an interesting player from a long term plan/cap perspective. He's (deservedly?) going to want a payday as he's consistently been a top cover CB who can generate takeaways if challenged. Teams don't really test him deep which shrinks the field and makes playcalling easier. Problem is, he's about as soft as it gets at CB and you see him going half speed all the time. He also provides nothing on run D. Contrast that to guys like Witherspoon, Williams, and Love who are at 110% every single down and get recognized by MM as players who looks to tilt the field every snap. Riq doesn't have that fire. Not everyone needs to be that same 'alpha' like mentality but man does he look uninterested out there at times.

The long third down is a perfect example of the player he is. Deep zones and his responsibility likely is carry anything middle/deep along the sideline. He was flatfooted at the marker as the guy busted his ass trying to get ~25 yards and then when it came to making a tackle, he just stood there. On a hugely critical down he made zero effort to stop the guy short. That is so completely unacceptable, especially in a physical defense like Mike wants to run. Love immediately started chewing him out.

IMO he's the starter until there's a another cover guy who plays with Witherspoon's energy. Tre Brown lost his job after repeated bad weeks, so I know MM and staff aren't going to put up with poor play, especially effort. I don't know if you open the checkbook for him but he may want that since he's been paid peanuts based on his draft spot.
I expect they'll find a suitable replacement and send him down the road in the offseason
 

OrangeGravy

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I think it’s fairly unanimous. We all know he has talent. Tall, speedy, can cover anyone when he feels like it.

That’s the hitch.

When he feels like it.

No amount of raw talent matters if you don’t have that want to. That motor that never rests.

You can’t survive on talent alone. You have to have that killer instinct and perpetual motor that separates you from the average player. Spoon has that. Riq doesn’t. Year 3 it’s pretty obvious.
Doesn't love football. I can stomach talented guts on offense who don't necessarily love the game. You can get away with it. Defense in any sport is about effort. Talent makes the effort payoff bigger, but without the effort you got nothing.

Same goes for contact. Some guys don't like it and avoid it at all costs. Works on offense, disaster on defense
 

SoulfishHawk

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I'm hoping they replace him next year. Never thought I'd say that, but his effort on that 3rd down was pathetic and unacceptable.
 

getnasty

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Man I don't see where he lacked effort on that 3rd down play. I 100% agreed that he pulled up at the end when Jenkins clearly was pushing him out. Could he have lunched himself like a meat missile? Maybe, but he is never gonna be that guy just as Lockett is never gonna be DK Metcalf. I think Love was getting after him for being out of position more so then then effort. If you want him to be more like Devon Witherspoon then draft another corner at 5, in the meantime He's very solid in coverage and a big reason why this defense is playing well.

Go back and watch everyone's pursuit at the end of the previous play and tell me it's that different then Woolens on the play on question. Shoot even Kobe Bryant pulls up similar to Woolen in the play in question.
 

SoulfishHawk

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Watch it again, he was basically jogging. There's a reason Love laid into him. This isn't something new with Woolen, this is a pattern. That's all I'm saying.
 
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Aircrew

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While Woolen wasn't the only guilty party in last year's game against Pittsburgh at home, he was often seen standing around watching Stealer players move the ball and get into the endzone. And now yesterday happens. Just my .02, but I think he doesn't like contact and just wants to be a cover corner. And that's not entirely unusual for really fast guys, tbh, look at Deion Sanders. The problem is, that's NOT going to work in a Mike Macdonald defense. And if team leaders like Love are getting in his ass on the field, I guarantee Woolen is on thin ice with the coaches. If I had to guess, Riq isn't in MM's future plans.
 

rigelian

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I actually see this as a good/bad thing. We might be able to extend him at a lower price. I think he needs an attitude adjustment. Hopefully as the defense gels a bit more the problem becomes team corrected. At the same time, he apparently played well absent that play.
 

SoulfishHawk

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It's a good point you make, Aircrew, on the contact thing. He just doesn't throw himself in there like most players on this team. Spoon is a buck 70, maybe a buck 80, soaking wet and he's blasting guys.
 

hawkfan68

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He’s more like prime time than you think. Sanders never tackled. Hardly hit anyone. He was one of if not the best cover corner of all time. But was not looking to hit anyone ever.
Woolen is not the best cover corner on his team, much less the NFL, like Sanders was. It'd be nice to see someone like Jaycee Horn from the Panthers on the Seahawks. The group of Spoon, Horn, and Love would be magical. Almost LOB like.
 

Aircrew

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I think it’s fairly unanimous. We all know he has talent. Tall, speedy, can cover anyone when he feels like it.

That’s the hitch.

When he feels like it.

No amount of raw talent matters if you don’t have that want to. That motor that never rests.

You can’t survive on talent alone. You have to have that killer instinct and perpetual motor that separates you from the average player. Spoon has that. Riq doesn’t. Year 3 it’s pretty obvious.
I would rather have an average/above average player who has a relentless motor and gives 100% on every play than a top tier talent who plays when he feels like it.
 

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