You understand that 3-tech and nose tackle are different positions. The topic is NT. I checked the weight of all HOF nose tackles a couple weeks ago. I did not keep my notes, and I’m not doing it again unless you are calling me a liar. They average 334.
Why '23 will be better than '22: Front 7
- Thread starter toffee
- Start date
BASF
Well-known member
Can you come up with a name of any Nose Tackle that is in the Hall Of Fame?
Here are the actual hall of famers that played DT:
Junious Buchanan (DT) 1963-1975
Curley Culp 1968-1981
Art Donovan (DT) 1950-1961
Joe Greene (DT) 1969-1981
Dan Hampton (DT-DE) 1979-1990
Henry Jordan (DT) 1957-1969
Cortez Kennedy (DT) 1990-2000
Bob Lilly (DT) 1961-1974
Leo Nomellini (DT) 1950-1963
Merlin Olsen (DT) 1962-1976
Alan Page (DT) 1967-1981
John Randle 1990-2003
Warren Sapp 1995-2007
Ernie Stautner (DT) 1950-1963
Arnie Weinmeister (DT) 1948-1953
Randy White (DT) 1975-1988
Reggie White (DT-DE) 1985-1998, 2000
I would argue against Reggie White being included on the list as he only played there for about a year total. None of those players were nose tackles in an era close to this one. All of them were smaller than what you are advocating. Of course you may be thinking of players that are not actual hall of famers.
hawkfan68
Well-known member
These guys aren't HOFs (some may still get in) but they did have good to great careers at NT (325+ pds)-
Jerry Ball - 330pds - https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BallJe00.htm
Albert Haynesworth - 335pds - https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HaynAl20.htm
BJ Raji - 334pds - https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RajiBJ99.htm
Haloti Ngata - 340pds - https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/N/NgatHa20.htm
Ted Washington - 365pds (Not sure why he hasn't made it in HOF yet) - https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WashTe01.htm.
Vince Wilfork - 325pds - https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WilfVi20.htm
Shaun Rogers - 350pds - https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RogeSh99.htm
Jamal Williams - 348pds - https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WillJa99.htm
Snacks Harrison - 350pds - https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HarrDa03.htm
Casey Hampton - 325pds - https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HampCa00.htm
Thanks! Nice to see one person who understands what I am talking about.
BASF
Well-known member
Agreed on this list. As a lover of the position, I'd say only three of those players belong in the hall of fame. But belonging in the hall of fame and actually being hall of fame are two entirely different things.
As I've previously mentioned, Curley Culp was a nose tackle. Alan Page played a little nose tackle.
I certainly don't believe the statistic that you are representing as a fact. Since this is a discussion forum, my initial response pointed that out and explained why I did not believe it. Your responses since then have provided nothing to back up your assertion or rebut my points, so I remain completely unconvinced. It's not a big deal, people are mistaken about all kinds of things and you're welcome to maintain whatever opinion you want.
Likewise sir. The only difference is that I did the research on this and you did not. If I have some time next week, I might redo it and show it to you. The Hawkfan68 post above is pretty accurate, as best I recall.
I am calling you a liar!
Lagartixa
Well-known member
@Bear-Hawk, why are you pretending @hawkfan68's post supports your point? His list is of players who are NOT in the Hall of Fame.
If "as best [you] recall," the list is what you saw in @hawkfan68's post then your "research" did not show what you previously claimed it did. Specifically, you have said
However, as @hawkfan68 himself said, his list is of players who are NOT in the Hall of Fame.
@CostaRicaHawk presented a list of 19 players, 17 of which are the ones the Pro Football Hall of Fame's web site says are the 17 DTs in the Hall of Fame. The highest weight on that list was 311 pounds, only three of them were over 300, and the average was way below 300.
When the heaviest DT in the Hall of fame had a listed weight of 311 pounds, it's pretty hard to end up with an average weight of 334. Maybe when you calculated the average, you got the number of players wrong and divided by a number that was too small by one or two or something. For example, let's say you took the 17 players listed on the Hall of Fame's web site and added up all their listed weights, but then divided by 15 instead of 17. Then you'd end up with a number higher than the actual average.
But there are no DTs in the Hall of Fame with listed weights above 311 pounds, and only three have weights over 300. So your assertion that it's a "fact" that nose tackles in the Hall of Fame average 334 pounds is false.
I checked whether maybe some players in the Hall of Fame were listed with position "NT" instead of "DT," and that was not the issue. On the Hall of Fame's site, only Klecko is listed as an NT, and he's also among the 17 players listed as DTs. What about players listed as DE/DT? There are three: Dan Hampton, Richard Seymour, and Bryant Young. Their weights are listed as 264, 310, and 317 respectively. Two of them would thus be up near the top end of the list ordered by weights if we add them to @CostaRicaHawk's list, but there's no way to get an average of 334 lbs if the heaviest player on the list has a weight of 317 lbs. I checked the weights @CostaRicaHawk presented, and they appear to check out. Having eliminated those possibilities, I can't come up with any reason you'd get an average weight of 334 for HoF DTs other than if you messed up the calculation. I think you messed up the calculation.
bileever
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2022
- Messages
- 1,353
- Reaction score
- 1,871
Slightly off topic, but why was Robert Cooper (UDFA 335 lbs. NT from Florida State) released when Burns was signed? Was he still injured, or was it just that Jonah Tavai and Forrest Merrill were considered better options?
BASF
Well-known member
My guess is injured. I was paying attention to him during the videos from rookie camp and OTAs and he was mostly watching the drills and going last and it seemed gingerly.
You are correct. I was wrong about Hall of Fame. However, I agree with Hawkfan68 list of best nose tackles of the modern era, and I would wager that, if we did a list of top-10 true nose tackles over the last 20 years, it would include most of his list and would average 330+
I updated my research on current NFL starting nose tackles.
Here are all teams that played 3-4 defense in 2022 and the weight of their projected starting nose tackle in 2023, according to the depth charts at Ourlads.com
Packers – Slaton 330
Rams – Brown 324
Chargers – Joseph –Day 310
Seahawks – Mone 345
Ravens – Pierce 345
Falcons – Onyemata 300
Giants – Lawrence 342
Vikings – Tonga 338
Dolphins – Davis 335
Buccaneers – Vea 347
Broncos - Jones 305
Patriots – Godchaux 311
Titans – Tart 304
Jaguars – Hamilton 335
Cardinals – Fotu 334
They average 327 pounds. I have done this research twice now.
Last edited:
morgulon1
Well-known member
But notice a lot of the "lighter" guys are from a different era? In the 50s and 60s
a 250 lb lineman was a huge guy.
I personally don't think a NT has to be 330 ..if it's the right guy. I. Sure John Randle would do well in today's NFL.
I have said multiple times that the lighter guys can compensate somewhat with technique, agility, strength, etc. Nonetheless, weight is an advantage at nose tackle and that’s why 2/3 of them are 320-350.
OP
OP
toffee
Well-known member
Any news or progress reports on our young guys? Mike Morris, Derrick Hall, Cam Young, Jonah Tavai? DL remains one of our challenges, I am sure hoping for positive news.
OP
OP
toffee
Well-known member
| DE | Jarran Reed | Mike Morris | Jonah Tavai, Jordan Ferguson | ||
| NT | Cameroon Young | Mone *injured | |||
| DE | Dre'Mont Jones | Myles Adams | M.J. Anderson, Ifeanyi Maijeh | ||
| OLB | Boye Mafe | Taylor | Vi Jones | Cam Bright | |
| MLB | Bobby Wagner | Nick Bellore | Joshua Onujiogu | Michael Ayers | |
| MLB | Devin Bush | Jordyn Brooks | Jon Rhattigan | Robert Barnes | |
| OLB | Uchenna Nwosu |
| Tyreka Smith | Patrick O’Connell |
Not sure if I am missing something, but we only have one big body nose in Cam Young?
SoulfishHawk
Well-known member
The game isn't played on paper.
CalgaryFan05
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2016
- Messages
- 2,358
- Reaction score
- 2,421
I'm not sure WHO wants us to play 3-4.
I certainly don't.
Scrap that shit and get back to what we know.
bileever
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2022
- Messages
- 1,353
- Reaction score
- 1,871
I haven't heard any news about our D-line, but apparently, unless you're the 49ers or the Eagles, everyone seems to be worried about their D-line, specifically the interior line. Maybe the world has just run out of nose tackles?
As much as we've fretted over not having a true nose tackle to play in the middle of the 3-4, maybe we shouldn't worry that much. We don't play a straight 3-4, and there are plenty of times when it's a hybrid that resembles the 4-3 we've always played. Also, with everyone in the NFL using the outside zone run scheme, does the nose tackle, even in a 3-4, as important as it used to be?
The Denver Broncos had a pretty good defense last year (playing a 3-4) with only one defensive lineman weighing over 320 pounds, and that was 32-year-old Mike Purcell (528 snaps), who last played for the Salt Lake Stallions of the Alliance of American Football before signing with the Broncos. The other nose tackle they have is DJ Jones, who is 6' 0" and 300 lbs (560 snaps). They beat the 49ers last year, with the 49ers only scoring 10 points.
As much as we've fretted over not having a true nose tackle to play in the middle of the 3-4, maybe we shouldn't worry that much. We don't play a straight 3-4, and there are plenty of times when it's a hybrid that resembles the 4-3 we've always played. Also, with everyone in the NFL using the outside zone run scheme, does the nose tackle, even in a 3-4, as important as it used to be?
The Denver Broncos had a pretty good defense last year (playing a 3-4) with only one defensive lineman weighing over 320 pounds, and that was 32-year-old Mike Purcell (528 snaps), who last played for the Salt Lake Stallions of the Alliance of American Football before signing with the Broncos. The other nose tackle they have is DJ Jones, who is 6' 0" and 300 lbs (560 snaps). They beat the 49ers last year, with the 49ers only scoring 10 points.
OP
OP
toffee
Well-known member
4-3 does look better? But still need DTs?
| DE | Mike Morris | Jonah Tavai | Tyreka Smith | Patrickj O'Connell |
| DT | Jarran Reed | Jordan Ferguson | ||
| DT | Cameroon Young | Mone *injured | ||
| DE | Dre'Mont Jones | Myles Adams | M.J. Anderson, Ifeanyi Maijeh | |
| OLB | Boye Mafe | Derick Hall | Joshua Onujiogu | Vi Jones |
| MLB | Bobby Wagner | Devin Smith | Nick Bellore | Michael Ayers |
| OLB | Uchenna Nwosu | Darrell Taylor | Jon Rhattigan | Jordyn Brooks (injured) |
