Poll: If Russ retired today does he make the HOF?

[SoulfishHawk]

Good points ^

 

[Torc]

first of all... sherm is absolutely getting in. wtf u smoking bro. to me, this is the only thing i've seen that slows him down -> https://www.pro-football-reference.com/hof/hofm_DB.htm ty law is essentially the bar he had to clear. and he cleared ty law. maybe sherm's not 1st ballot (i think he is) but point is, he's getting in. teams avoided his side of the field, especially on deep throws. besides the stats/accolades let's not forget the iconic plays he made while on the biggest stages.



bobby is borderline now but at his current trajectory gets in, for years he was the best MLB in the league, team captain, stacked huge stats, got 1 ring, and is still performing. another 1-2 years of production tacked onto his current totals will cement his case. now earl has an outside shot, and kam's injuries (and wilson's SB49 pick) completely derailed his chances

and actually... now that i think of it, russell wilson's SB49 goalline pick might have cost some of the borderline guys like bobby/earl/kam/lynch and ofc wilson himself a chance at HOF. simply because 2 rings combined with the personal accolades / notoriety is hard to ignore.

One of my own personal HOF worthiness measures (which has zero bearing on real voting of course) is whether a player was in the discussion for best in the league at his position at any point in his career.

Sherman and Wagner both qualify for that. Russ does not - at best people were debating whether he was in the top 5 or not. An exception might be in 2020, where he was voted #2 in the top 100 players (of any position) by other players. But "other players" don't get a hall of fame vote. The media has never considered him top 3 at his position.

 

[IndyHawk]

Love the laughing, good stuff. Did the defense give up a 10 point lead or not? Yes it did. It was one many contributing factors to losing 49.

The point is he did not carry the team to a win on the biggest stage.
Joe Montana to Dwight Clark-HOF ticket punched and sealed
Russ Wilson to Butler in the endzone-Big Fail

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Neither did the defense. Big Fail
I'm sick of this conversation to be honest, people have been arguing over this game for going on a decade now.
We all have our opinions on it. There were SEVERAL reasons for them losing that game. Not one play. Just because you hate one player, that doesn't mean that he is THE reason they lost the game. They don't make either SB without him, or Marshawn, or the defense.
That's my opinion, don't really care if someone agrees or not.

 

[GGotskill]

Neither did the defense. Big Fail
I'm sick of this conversation to be honest, people have been arguing over this game for going on a decade now.

Then why participate?

We all have our opinions on it. There were SEVERAL reasons for them losing that game. Not one play.

True, but saying it doesn't count against Russ, when he didn't make the play, seems odd.

That's my opinion, don't really care if someone agrees or not.

So you aren't here for a discussion, you are here for an argument.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Ok.
Where did I say that he wasn't part of that loss? He was part of SEVERAL reasons they lost. Geezus man. Do I have to spell out the big words? It's just funny TO ME that the Defense seems to get a pass. As if they are without fault.

 

[GGotskill]

Ok.
Where did I say that he wasn't part of that loss? He was part of SEVERAL reasons they lost. Geezus man. Do I have to spell out the big words? It's just funny TO ME that the Defense seems to get a pass. As if they are without fault.

But that's the thing, we aren't talking about the defense.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I know, I think he's borderline.
I'll gladly bow out of this conversation, been down this road for several years. It's not really worth it.

 

[BASF]

The defense gets more leeway because several of them were injured going into the game. Then, with us still containing them, the dirtiest team in modern football intentionally injured two of them. Then, they made their comeback against their backups.

 

[Lagartixa]

So you aren't here for a discussion, you are here for an argument.

 

[olyfan63]

The defense gets more leeway because several of them were injured going into the game. Then, with us still containing them, the dirtiest team in modern football intentionally injured two of them. Then, they made their comeback against their backups.

With Jeremy Lane, I can see the case for dirty play against Julian Edelman, but I thought he was just trying to make a tackle, went low, and Lane was extremely unlucky. The hit blew out Lane's ACL first, IMO, which left him preoccupied with that severe pain and not able to protect himself while landing, hence the gory broken forearm.

For Avril, I don't think I ever saw the play where he got concussed. What happened on that play to suggest there was an element of intentional dirty play? Got link to video showing it? Avril was the only one getting consistent pressure on Brady.

Certainly agreed that losing Avril and Lane cost us the game. Also Pete inexplicably made healthy and effective slot corner Marcus Burley inactive and injured and crappy CB Tharald Simon active for the game. Seahawks also failed to generate more offense and points and TOP of their own during the comeback.

Had Russell had the right stuff to complete the final drive there for the TD, def he becomes the MVP and two-time SB-winning QBs get on the fast track for HOF admission. I can't think of any 2+ SB-winning QB who *isn't* in the HOF.

 

[Palmegranite]

Eli Manning, call for you on line 2. Eli, please pick up.(2025 is just around the corner)

 

[BASF]

For Avril, I don't think I ever saw the play where he got concussed. What happened on that play to suggest there was an element of intentional dirty play? Got link to video showing it? Avril was the only one getting consistent pressure on Brady.

There is no link or video to it, which is suspicious. I only remember seeing it away from the ball as it happened when Bobby intercepted Brady in the third quarter. If you watch this video you can see that he crumples to the ground:



Checking out the whole game video here:



You can see that Avril is engaged with the linemen when the running back runs into him with a forearm shiver directly to the chin. He even seems to lift his feet. I definitely consider a forearm shiver to the chin at full speed while a guy is engaged with someone else and can't defend himself to be dirty. After the Avril injury, the defense could not get pressure on Brady and suddenly those presnap reads were perfect.

 

[Seahawker]

 

[pittpnthrs]

Ok.
Where did I say that he wasn't part of that loss? He was part of SEVERAL reasons they lost. Geezus man. Do I have to spell out the big words? It's just funny TO ME that the Defense seems to get a pass. As if they are without fault.

They get a pass because the entire secondary was injured and gutted it out because they had no choice. An effort that was wasted because of the worst play call in NFL history. The team had no business even having a shot at the win and you can only wonder why they gave up the 10 points.

 

[scutterhawk]

With Jeremy Lane, I can see the case for dirty play against Julian Edelman, but I thought he was just trying to make a tackle, went low, and Lane was extremely unlucky. The hit blew out Lane's ACL first, IMO, which left him preoccupied with that severe pain and not able to protect himself while landing, hence the gory broken forearm.

For Avril, I don't think I ever saw the play where he got concussed. What happened on that play to suggest there was an element of intentional dirty play? Got link to video showing it? Avril was the only one getting consistent pressure on Brady.

Certainly agreed that losing Avril and Lane cost us the game. Also Pete inexplicably made healthy and effective slot corner Marcus Burley inactive and injured and crappy CB Tharald Simon active for the game. Seahawks also failed to generate more offense and points and TOP of their own during the comeback.

Had Russell had the right stuff to complete the final drive there for the TD, def he becomes the MVP and two-time SB-winning QBs get on the fast track for HOF admission. I can't think of any 2+ SB-winning QB who *isn't* in the HOF.

You are exactly right 'Oly', Wilson apologists will ALWAYS insist on including the word play-"CALL" because they have to have someone else to blame for Wilson's BAD PLAY.
Wilson did NOT have the "Right Stuff" to make his own '10 point' magic, so it came down to the LAST errant PLAY, >>BY WILSON<<

 

[BASF]

You are exactly right 'Oly', Wilson apologists will ALWAYS insist on including the word play-"CALL" because they have to have someone else to blame for Wilson's BAD PLAY.
Wilson did NOT have the "Right Stuff" to make his own '10 point' magic, so it came down to the LAST errant PLAY, >>BY WILSON<<

Bevell called a play that we run only one pattern out of that formation and one that Brandon Browner practiced against while on our team dozens of times. Do you think it might have been prudent to run a different pattern out of that formation thus crossing up what they knew was coming as soon as we lined up in that formation?

The lion's share of the blame lies directly on Bevell for that play call. I am no Me3 apologist. I have been one of the longest and loudest detractors of Me3 on this site. He made a bad throw. However, his hesitation that forced the bad throw was due to JR Sweezy getting blown into the passing lane (they knew the pattern that was coming and knew if they blow up the RG, the pass lane wouldn't be there). Wilson then had to throw the ball over the line instead of through it and of course the interception happened.

Despite what one member on this board continues to say, Bill Belichick is the best defensive mind of that era. And against the best defensive mind of that era we ran a play that literally gives the defense the advantage because they knew it was coming and had practiced against.

 

[NoGain]

When the shock of that play and loss subsided just a bit, my first thought was why of all the possible plays would you call one with a short QB throwing a pass into a probable crowded space over or through lineman that towered over him? Run to Lynch. Rollout run/pass option. To my mind, the only thing you didn't want to do there was call a pass play where a second year QB was more liable to make a mistake than any other number of options.

 

[BASF]

My solution would have been to have Lockette sprint out to the flat just inside the goal line. Browner was already determined to crash down since he knew where the pass was going and blowing up Kearse would disrupt the pick. Butler was already determined to crash down, which would have put him at a major disadvantage with Lockette's speed. With Russ rolling just a bit and back in that direction, it would have been an easy pitch and catch and we are talking dynasty. The Me3 marks rejoice as he becomes the Super Bowl MVP and all but punches his ticket into the hall. But, Bevell was not a great play caller. He was a good play caller. The great ones have variations upon variations from their formations.

 

[hawkfan68]

My solution would have been to have Lockette sprint out to the flat just inside the goal line. Browner was already determined to crash down since he knew where the pass was going and blowing up Kearse would disrupt the pick. Butler was already determined to crash down, which would have put him at a major disadvantage with Lockette's speed. With Russ rolling just a bit and back in that direction, it would have been an easy pitch and catch and we are talking dynasty. The Me3 marks rejoice as he becomes the Super Bowl MVP and all but punches his ticket into the hall. But, Bevell was not a great play caller. He was a good play caller. The great ones have variations upon variations from their formations.

That play may have worked with different personnel. Instead of Lockette, why not use Chris Matthews (who was having a monster game)? He's a bigger receiver. How about Luke Willson running that pattern? I don't think Butler makes the INT with either of those guys there.