Poll: If Russ retired today does he make the HOF?

[GGotskill]

You make some good points, but Wilson has never been first-team All-Pro. He was second-team All-Pro once.

Second team All Pro from the Associated Press, which is widely considered THE All Pro voting. That same year he was first team by the Pro Football Writers, which has been around a while, and Pro Football Focus, which is relatively new. I gave Russ the benefit of the doubt for arguments sake.

 

[Rat]

Going into last season, I would have unequivocally said yes, but while I still think he would make it, that last season at the very least would have him waiting longer than he would of had he retired a year earlier.

 

[olyfan63]

Interesting how you bash Wilson quite a bit but as you say if Kearse does his job and Russ completes the pass you’d put Wilson in the HOF.

The point is one two yard incompletion or even two yard TD run by Lynch (or stop) should not make or break a HOF attainment.

Wilson broke tons of important NFL records or came real close his first 10 years in the league. He deserves to be in the HOF imo.

The point is that Wilson DID NOT make the key play, and instead made a HORRENDOUS GAME-LOSING MISTAKE, which reflects who he was, and still is, in Denver. In that SB49 moment, the New England defense exposed Russell as unworthy of being a back-to-back Super Bowl Champion QB, a QB who carried the team to victory at crunch time. Luck can only carry you so far, and good/bad luck tends to even out over time. Kearse's "lucky" ricochet catch on that fateful drive was evened out by Wilson's "unlucky" game-losing pick.

It would be much harder to argue against a 2-time Super Bowl Champion, especially one who led a game-winning drive at the biggest moment on the biggest stage. Russell fell short. Neither you nor Russell has a time machine that can go back and reverse the awful outcome.

Russell was not prepared enough, not knowledgeable enough, to audible out to a Lynch run, or even a read-option. Russell was not prepared enough, not knowledgeable enough, to realize presnap that the playcall presented a mismatch against Seattle, Kearse having to physically win against Browner. As Russell says, "The separation is in the preparation", but sadly, Russell was unprepared to win against that scenario. HOF 1st ballot QB Brady meanwhile, took candy from a baby all the 2nd half by recognizing matchups presnap, "Where's (Tharald "Toast") Simon?" and repeatedly exploiting that matchup.

A HOF-worthy QB, IMO, would have made adjustments over his career, to learn the lessons, and adjust to the way defenses play him, and figure out new ways to "win" against what defensive coordinators throw at him. "The pick" in SB49 simply showed the TRUTH about Russell Wilson; the outcome wasn't "luck". In the KJ Hamler helmet-slam play, essentially the same play as the SB49 game-losing pick, Russell showed he never learned to READ DEFENSES, and made the opposite mistake, not throwing the ball in a game-winning situation when it was WIDE OPEN.

On the pop-culture side, Russell has a perfume, IIRC, and a special Subway sandwich, and he's been the longtime Alaska Airlines spokesman, so maybe he should get extra HOF cred for all that?

I think we actually agree that Russell is right on the fence of HOF-worthy, we only disagree on which side of the fence he should wind up on at this moment in time. I say, Russell's HOF selection *should* depend on him having a couple years of success and growth with the Broncos. In the end, our opinions matter little, and the voters will decide.

 

[rcaido]

The point is that Wilson DID NOT make the key play, and instead made a HORRENDOUS GAME-LOSING MISTAKE, which reflects who he was, and still is, in Denver. In that SB49 moment, the New England defense exposed Russell as unworthy of being a back-to-back Super Bowl Champion QB, a QB who carried the team to victory at crunch time. Luck can only carry you so far, and good/bad luck tends to even out over time. Kearse's "lucky" ricochet catch on that fateful drive was evened out by Wilson's "unlucky" game-losing pick.

It would be much harder to argue against a 2-time Super Bowl Champion, especially one who led a game-winning drive at the biggest moment on the biggest stage. Russell fell short. Neither you nor Russell has a time machine that can go back and reverse the awful outcome.

Russell was not prepared enough, not knowledgeable enough, to audible out to a Lynch run, or even a read-option. Russell was not prepared enough, not knowledgeable enough, to realize presnap that the playcall presented a mismatch against Seattle, Kearse having to physically win against Browner. As Russell says, "The separation is in the preparation", but sadly, Russell was unprepared to win against that scenario. HOF 1st ballot QB Brady meanwhile, took candy from a baby all the 2nd half by recognizing matchups presnap, "Where's (Tharald "Toast") Simon?" and repeatedly exploiting that matchup.

A HOF-worthy QB, IMO, would have made adjustments over his career, to learn the lessons, and adjust to the way defenses play him, and figure out new ways to "win" against what defensive coordinators throw at him. "The pick" in SB49 simply showed the TRUTH about Russell Wilson; the outcome wasn't "luck". In the KJ Hamler helmet-slam play, essentially the same play as the SB49 game-losing pick, Russell showed he never learned to READ DEFENSES, and made the opposite mistake, not throwing the ball in a game-winning situation when it was WIDE OPEN.

On the pop-culture side, Russell has a perfume, IIRC, and a special Subway sandwich, and he's been the longtime Alaska Airlines spokesman, so maybe he should get extra HOF cred for all that?

I think we actually agree that Russell is right on the fence of HOF-worthy, we only disagree on which side of the fence he should wind up on at this moment in time. I say, Russell's HOF selection *should* depend on him having a couple years of success and growth with the Broncos. In the end, our opinions matter little, and the voters will decide.

That's a bit unfair, Wilson did enough to win the Superbowl & has played great in both of them. The defense gave up 10pt lead in the 4th.
Wilson Superbowl stats 65% 4td 1int* with 117 passer rating which is the 3rd highest of all time.

Mahomes has been to 2 superbowls(3) He had 0tds & 2int the one he loss. His career superbowl stat is 2td 4int. 57% 65 passer rating.
Peyton Manning has been to 4 superbowls. He got only 3tds & 5int w/ a 76% passer rating
John Elway has been to 5 superbowls, career stat is 3td & 8 int 50% & passer rating of 59.3
Rapeburger has been to 3 superbowls, career stats is 3td & 5int 60% & passer rating of 69.9

 

[olyfan63]

That's a bit unfair, Wilson did enough to win the Superbowl & has played great in both of them. The defense gave up 10pt lead in the 4th.
Wilson Superbowl stats 65% 4td 1int* with 117 passer rating which is the 3rd highest of all time.

Mahomes has been to 2 superbowls(3) He had 0tds & 2int the one he loss. His career superbowl stat is 2td 4int. 57% 65 passer rating.
Peyton Manning has been to 4 superbowls. He got only 3tds & 5int w/ a 76% passer rating
John Elway has been to 5 superbowls, career stat is 3td & 8 int 50% & passer rating of 59.3
Rapeburger has been to 3 superbowls, career stats is 3td & 5int 60% & passer rating of 69.9

Those SB comps for other HOF-level QBs and their stats are actually a pretty good argument. Let's see what I can come up with...

Elway didn't win until he had Terrell Davis and a big-time running game. Then he won 2 in a row. BUT, he did get the Broncos to *5* Super Bowls, so there's that.
Rapistburger had that amazing SB-winning throw to deny Kurt Warner a 2nd Lombardi, so he made the big play when it counted, plus he's made it to *3* Super Bowls.
Peyton Manning made it to 4 Super Bowls, 2 more than Russell, and won 2. Granted, his 2nd win was all about the Denver D and Von Miller.
You forgot to mention Jim Kelly of Buffalo, who lost 4 straight Super Bowls. Key stats: 2 TDs, 7 picks.

Mahomes is in a class of his own, and clearly elevates his team.

Rookie-contract Russell was pretty remarkable, and did elevate his team quite often. Some of the first games that come to mind are the 2012 season, where the Hawks won on the road in Chicago, the game where Sidney Rice got KO'ed on the game-winning TD catch. Several times that year and the following year, Russell would take over the game in the 4th quarter with his running and will the team to victory.

I also recall Wilson's epic duels against Patrick Mahomes and DeShaun Watson. Wilson won both in shootouts. Then there was his 2015 season, which was remarkable. So there are a good number of data points that support Wilson.

Later in his career, teams seemed to figure out Wilson, and the two-high safeties look seemed to baffle him. Without him being a legit running threat at QB, Wilson was less effective.

 

[Palmegranite]

Now he’s another overrated and overpaid player who used to be special.

♫♫ Now you're just somebody that I used to know...♫....Somebody..♫♫

 

[jammerhawk]

Yes, and thanks for the draft picks.

 

[BASF]

HOF 1st ballot QB Brady meanwhile, took candy from a baby all the 2nd half by recognizing matchups presnap, "Where's (Tharald "Toast") Simon?" and repeatedly exploiting that matchup.

I find it funny that no one ever mentions that Brady couldn't recognize those matchups "presnap" until the Pats intentionally injured Cliff Avril. If they had not taken him out, we win that game handily. All the Me3 marks rejoice because we never would have been put in position for him to fail spetacularly. The rest of us would have been talking dynasty since the team probably stays together for a few more years. Dirty Patriots cost us quite a bit.

 

[Hollandhawk]

RW couldn't even get 20% of .net to give a thumbs up for the HOF.
People are entitled to their opinions but IMHO Sherm, BWagz, Kam, Earl and ML are not HOF material either, maybe a case could be made for 0ne or two, but borderline at best. Hard to make it in as a safety or RB without a big resume that includes longevity.
WJ*CK*SL*KE*
Russ & Bobby are still making their case.

Dude.. Wagner is going first ballot. And IMO Sherm should get in.

 

[seatownlowdown]

RW couldn't even get 20% of .net to give a thumbs up for the HOF.
People are entitled to their opinions but IMHO Sherm, BWagz, Kam, Earl and ML are not HOF material either, maybe a case could be made for 0ne or two, but borderline at best. Hard to make it in as a safety or RB without a big resume that includes longevity.
WJ*CK*SL*KE*
Russ & Bobby are still making their case.

first of all... sherm is absolutely getting in. wtf u smoking bro. to me, this is the only thing i've seen that slows him down -> https://www.pro-football-reference.com/hof/hofm_DB.htm ty law is essentially the bar he had to clear. and he cleared ty law. maybe sherm's not 1st ballot (i think he is) but point is, he's getting in. teams avoided his side of the field, especially on deep throws. besides the stats/accolades let's not forget the iconic plays he made while on the biggest stages.



bobby is borderline now but at his current trajectory gets in, for years he was the best MLB in the league, team captain, stacked huge stats, got 1 ring, and is still performing. another 1-2 years of production tacked onto his current totals will cement his case. now earl has an outside shot, and kam's injuries (and wilson's SB49 pick) completely derailed his chances

and actually... now that i think of it, russell wilson's SB49 goalline pick might have cost some of the borderline guys like bobby/earl/kam/lynch and ofc wilson himself a chance at HOF. simply because 2 rings combined with the personal accolades / notoriety is hard to ignore.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Love the laughing, good stuff. Did the defense give up a 10 point lead or not? Yes it did. It was one many contributing factors to losing 49.

 

[GGotskill]

Well, that same defense giving up a 10 point lead in the 4th quarter gets ignored, all these years later. As if ONE play is the reason they lost that SB. It was a pile of factors.

That's a reductive way of looking at it.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

How so? My point is that ONE PLAY did not determine the outcome of that game. It was the defense, guys getting injured (losing Avril and Lane was huge), a crap play call, crap execution and a crap throw. Along with a very good play by butler. ALL of it. Also, the offense not playing add on in the 4th quarter.
Hard to say if Russ makes it to the hall, still feels like he needs to have a good season or two out in Denver. He's borderline imo.

 

[GGotskill]

How so? My point is that ONE PLAY did not determine the outcome of that game. It was the defense, guys getting injured (losing Avril and Lane was huge), a crap play call, crap execution and a crap throw. Along with a very good play by butler. ALL of it.

Yes, that's not the context of the question is it? The question is does that single play factor into Russ' legacy, and absolutely it does.

Hard to say if Russ makes it, still feels like he needs to have a good season or two out in Denver. He's borderline imo.

He'll need a lot more than a good season or two. The algorithm shows he needs another super bowl run or league MVP, something substantial to bump his relative score up. Just a few good seasons wouldn't move the mark.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Fair enough, that's your OPINION, not a FACT. I don't care if he gets in or not. I can see both sides of the argument.

 

[GGotskill]

Fair enough, that's your opinion.

Which part? I don't think I shared an opinion, only facts.

I don't care if he gets in or not.

Ok.

I can see both sides of the argument.

Ok.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

And THIS is why having a conversation about football is a challenge on here. Geezus man. So it's a FACT because you say it is. Why have a question or a poll if you already know that your opinion is FACT? We can agree to disagree. All of this is opinions, and that's ok.

Thanks for the laugh though. FFS this place sometimes.

 

[GGotskill]

And THIS is why having a conversation about football is a challenge on here. Geezus man. So it's a FACT because you say it is. Why have a question or a poll if you already know that your opinion is FACT?

Wow. Maybe read my response again before jumping off the deep end. I was referring specifically the last post I made. That post did not contain an opinion, it was just point out factual information. My bad if you can't discern between those two things.

Thanks for the laugh. FFS this place sometimes.

Back at ya.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Ok.

 

[chrispy]

Russel Wilson isn't retiring today so...why does it matter?

He may play better with Payton coaching. He may be completely washed up. Those two options likely determine his HOF chances as opposed to on which side of the paper thin argument you currently reside.

Perhaps Sean Payton's HOF enshrinement and RCW's are a bit dependent on each other.