Draft nothing but pass rushers and linebackers

[Crizilla]

Draft nothing but pass rushers and linebackers

 

[WarHawks]

Speaking of Great Danes, I like cheese.

 

[nwHawk]

Squirrel

 

[jammerhawk]

Given the D’s atrocious play against the run the team needs better tacklers on the DLine and at least two good ILBs.

 

[morgulon1]

Better defensive coordinator?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Better defensive coordinator?

Definitely the coordinators fault. What do all these idiots know, they only have over 100+ years of high level successful defensive coaching experience between Pete, Hurtt, Desai and Carl Smith.

I'm OK with going defense for the first 2-3 picks, but we also need to upgrade at center and guard, as well as find another playmaker at WR.

So after the first round, I'm OK with going for a stud O-lineman or electric receiver if available.

 

[morgulon1]

Definitely the coordinators fault. What do all these idiots know, they only have over 100+ years of high level successful defensive coaching experience between Pete, Hurtt, Desai and Carl Smith.

I'm OK with going defense for the first 2-3 picks, but we also need to upgrade at center and guard, as well as find another playmaker at WR.

So after the first round, I'm OK with going for a stud O-lineman or electric receiver if available.

That's just it.

I don't know what those idiots know . I
Believe Seattle's defense finished back of the pack.

I do line your idea as far as drafting. Hopefully heavy defense . Get a better center somehow and plan for life after Lockett.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

That's just it.

I don't know what those idiots know . I
Believe Seattle's defense finished back of the pack.

Can you name me more than a couple defensive players who'd you consider above average at their respective positions?

Because other than Woolen, I honestly can't make a case for any other defensive starter. Maybe Diggs? But he's not widely considered one of the best free safeties anymore.

So yeah, bring in the ghost of Vince Lombardi to coach the defense, he ain't making a top 5 defense out of these scrubs. Front seven is bottom 2-3 in all of football.

 

[GemCity]

Can you name me more than a couple defensive players who'd you consider above average at their respective positions?

Because other than Woolen, I honestly can't make a case for any other defensive starter. Maybe Diggs? But he's not widely considered one of the best free safeties anymore.

So yeah, bring in the ghost of Vince Lombardi to coach the defense, he ain't making a top 5 defense out of these scrubs. Front seven is bottom 2-3 in all of football.

Not Diggs Sarge. I’m anxiously awaiting his release!!

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Not Diggs Sarge. I’m anxiously awaiting his release!!

Right, you're making my point. There are no other elite or even top 10 above average players at their position on our defensive roster.

 

[GemCity]

Right, you're making my point. There are no other elite or even top 10 above average players at their position on our defensive roster.

 

[HawkRiderFan]

Regarding upgrading the interior of the line. I can see drafting a center if available fairly high but isn't guard a position where you can find guys in free agency?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Regarding upgrading the interior of the line. I can see drafting a center if available fairly high but isn't guard a position where you can find guys in free agency?

If you're prioritizing position importance and using draft capital? Yes, definitely center over guard.

But I don't think John and Pete are thinking "only address guard in free agency or trade." If there's a stud guard available in rounds 3-4? Probably not passing him up.

Remember, free agency = paying a LOT more, and like Gabe Jackson, giving up draft picks to get one as well as paying him.

 

[therealjohncarlson]

Can you name me more than a couple defensive players who'd you consider above average at their respective positions?

Because other than Woolen, I honestly can't make a case for any other defensive starter. Maybe Diggs? But he's not widely considered one of the best free safeties anymore.

So yeah, bring in the ghost of Vince Lombardi to coach the defense, he ain't making a top 5 defense out of these scrubs. Front seven is bottom 2-3 in all of football.

Little bit of the chicken vs the egg debate here though. I understand there's a certain level of objective athleticism and talent, thats true. But how much of it is the coaching/scheme looking bad cause of bad defensive players. And how much of it is the players looking bad cause of bad coaching/scheme??

 

[seatownlowdown]

why is it always one or the other's fault. the DC or the front 7. both things can be bad. it seems ignorant and dimwitted to suggest the scheme/playcalling/gameplan can't and shouldn't be upgraded. it seems the only time the defense held their own is when PC got involved and "fixed" the clint hurtt / desai approach

clint hurtt / desai are inadequate and so is the front 7. upgrade both. rewarding clint hurtt with ANOTHER year sends a sign of arrogance by PC. what did ken norton do? kris richard? find a top DC that has handled a DC position before, give him the keys, let them operate.

 

[Spin Doctor]

why is it always one or the other's fault. the DC or the front 7. both things can be bad. it seems ignorant and dimwitted to suggest the scheme/playcalling/gameplan can't and shouldn't be upgraded. it seems the only time the defense held their own is when PC got involved and "fixed" the clint hurtt / desai approach

clint hurtt / desai are inadequate and so is the front 7. upgrade both. rewarding clint hurtt with ANOTHER year sends a sign of arrogance by PC. what did ken norton do? kris richard? find a top DC that has handled a DC position before, give him the keys, let them operate.

Absolutely. Clint Hurtt was running a defensive scheme that none of our guys were suited for. We saw massive regression from most of our defensive players, particularly on D-Line. Carroll changed the scheme at his suggestion. We were quite literally trying to ram a square peg into a round hole.

In addition to this, why in the hell were they running 2-4-5 in heavy running situations? Why did our guys all of the sudden forget how to tackle?

Yes, talent may have been an issue -- but our scheme was also really gimping the team. The regression from the later half of 2021 defense to this years defense was massive.

I don't see how Clint can't bare some of the responsibility here. In addition to this largent said something about our defensive staffs 100+ years of experience.

Cool I guess? Practically every person that makes it to DC has a lot of experience coaching, what does that actually mean? It doesn't mean anything. In Hurtt's case he's never been a DC before. Jumping from a positional coach to DC is a huge leap that not everyone is able to make. In Clint's case, he didn't even excel in coaching his position group.

 

[Sun Tzu]

Absolutely. Clint Hurtt was running a defensive scheme that none of our guys were suited for. We saw massive regression from most of our defensive players, particularly on D-Line. Carroll changed the scheme at his suggestion. We were quite literally trying to ram a square peg into a round hole.

In addition to this, why in the hell were they running 2-4-5 in heavy running situations? Why did our guys all of the sudden forget how to tackle?

Yes, talent may have been an issue -- but our scheme was also really gimping the team. The regression from the later half of 2021 defense to this years defense was massive.

I don't see how Clint can't bare some of the responsibility here. In addition to this largent said something about our defensive staffs 100+ years of experience.

Cool I guess? Practically every person that makes it to DC has a lot of experience coaching, what does that actually mean? It doesn't mean anything. In Hurtt's case he's never been a DC before. Jumping from a positional coach to DC is a huge leap that not everyone is able to make. In Clint's case, he didn't even excel in coaching his position group.

I'm going to go ahead and assume you're using the valley girl definition of literally rather than the dictionary definition. The alternative would be um...beyond strange to see on a football field.

 

[morgulon1]

Can you name me more than a couple defensive players who'd you consider above average at their respective positions?

Because other than Woolen, I honestly can't make a case for any other defensive starter. Maybe Diggs? But he's not widely considered one of the best free safeties anymore.

So yeah, bring in the ghost of Vince Lombardi to coach the defense, he ain't making a top 5 defense out of these scrubs. Front seven is bottom 2-3 in all of football.

Nwosu, Kobe Bryant will get better, Michael Jackson isn't horrible, Brooks ( not yet)
Darrell Taylor got 9.5 sacks sharing snaps .

They need to get better on the def line and get a couple of linebackers .

 

[Sun Tzu]

Nwosu, Kobe Bryant will get better, Michael Jackson isn't horrible, Brooks ( not yet)
Darrell Taylor got 9.5 sacks sharing snaps .

They need to get better on the def line and get a couple of linebackers .

They could use an upgrade on the edge. Taylor may have got 9.5 sacks, but of the players getting regular snaps, he was one of the weakest links on the defense. At this point, I think his best role is as a pass rusher on obvious passing downs. Hopefully, Mafe continues to improve and we get Tyreke Smith back.

 

[Fade]

why is it always one or the other's fault. the DC or the front 7. both things can be bad. it seems ignorant and dimwitted to suggest the scheme/playcalling/gameplan can't and shouldn't be upgraded. it seems the only time the defense held their own is when PC got involved and "fixed" the clint hurtt / desai approach

clint hurtt / desai are inadequate and so is the front 7. upgrade both. rewarding clint hurtt with ANOTHER year sends a sign of arrogance by PC. what did ken norton do? kris richard? find a top DC that has handled a DC position before, give him the keys, let them operate.

I got bad news. It's Pete's defense at the end of the day. No established DC will take the job.

It would be like asking Holmgren to hire a new OC and ask him to be hands off on his baby. It isn't going to happen.

No. What we witnessed this year was a Fangio/Pete abomination, where the new guys came in but had to adhere to Pete's philosophy. The worst of both worlds. Next year it will be terrible again. Even if they were to substantially upgrade the pass rush by some miracle. That is not enough to overcome their predictable coverages, lack of desguise, and terrible tackling. Pete's soft, easy to read coverage, allows the opposing QB to check the ball down for an easy 8 yards at the first hint of pressure. So even if the pass rush technically wins, the ball is still being completed, and the chains keep moving for the other team.

Their ceiling is 20th in the league with elite talent. Hard to develop elite players, when players are consistently so poorly utilized.

Examples:

-Playing Brooks on passing downs. Poor Coaching.

-Playing Poona at 4i-5-Tech. Poor Coaching.

-Taking way too many games to figure out Darrell Taylor is a DPR. Poor Coaching.

-Not moving Nwosu around, finding ways to scheme him to get more 1-v-1's, stunts/twists to free him up, once teams started keying on him. Poor Coaching. Same for Darrell Taylor for that matter.

-Bobby Wagner going to another defense and looking better than he has in 3 years despite being well into his 30's on an injury decimated unit.

-Pete has done a good job developing DB's. But not enough to offset selling the farm for Adams. Which ties in nicely with their overarching issues that has plagued the Seahawks for years.

-Lack of development for YEARS in the entire front 7. Despite the picks and money thrown at it. Poor Coaching.

-No ability to mask coverages, or pressures. Everything is telegraphed.

-Consistent regression collectively as a defense, despite heavy investment in both draft capital, and $$$$$.

-So terrified of getting beat deep, sit back in shell coverage allowing the defense to bleed out on the field.

-Poor 3rd down defense.

-----
My question I'd pose to the peanut gallery is, at what point do you point to coaching as the issue? How much draft capital, and $$$$ has to be flushed before the fingers get pointed at coaching and scheme? Understanding that JS has only been drafting the players Pete wants for his defense. Like how they used to with Cable and the O-Line. Had to strip Cable of that power and then eventually give him the boot to get the O-Line trending in the right direction.

Their asset expenditure is incredibly high already.
https://www.seahawks.net/threads/the-hawks-d-vs-the-top-8-d-asset-expenditure.184749/

Imagine thinking that throwing MORE assets alone at the defense will fix it. Couldn't be me. The Seahawks issues on defense are systemic. The same issues plague them season after season, and more keep getting added to the pile.

They now cannot tackle, and their run fits are awful. Something I thought I'd never see from a Pete Carroll defense.