Let's Get This One Thing Straight…

[SoulfishHawk]

Someone tell you that you are "satisfied with losing" in 3.....2.....1..........

 

[pittpnthrs]

Ahh yes, so you'd like us to be different than the other 31 franchises that also have a very small chance each year to go further than WC rounds.

Lol. I dont remember any of the other 31 franchises making the playoffs practically every season and not being able to move past the 2nd round at least sometimes in the past 8 to 9 years. Everybody always spouted that anything can happen once you make the playoffs, but it never seemed to be the case for Pete Carroll coached teams unless he had optimal talent at every position. This has been true even in his college days. Thats my take on Pete Carroll. He has to out talent other teams, because he isnt going to out coach them. Rams game yesterday was a perfect example.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Yeah, I mean being tied for the 8th most playoff wins since 2015 is pretty terrible.

And before you spout some nonsense about having the 2nd most losses in that same timeframe. The Broncos are the only team not to lose a playoff game since 2015.

Gee I sure wish this team could be like the Broncos.

Lol. I dont need to say anything. You have said all that needs to be said.

 

[Jerhawk]

He's also no longer protected by Pete Carroll. It now looks like the "Pete-ball" about which Wilson fans complained so much was just Carroll getting as much as possible out of Wilson's strengths while minimizing the damage done to the team by Wilson's limitations. Remember that "let[ting] Russ cook" led to ten Wilson turnovers in three games.

I like @keasley45's analogy in another thread. It now looks like Pete Carroll and "Pete-ball" were like the inflatable bumpers in the gutters on a bowling lane, and Wilson was like a kid who could occasionally send a ball perfectly like a pro and nail a strike or pick up a difficult spare, but without the bumpers, would roll a lot of gutterballs too.

Carroll did what he did with Wilson so well that Washington and Denver (and possibly other teams) were willing to offer a lot in players and picks to get Wilson, and people around here were throwing around terms like "generational talent" about Wilson, even though he was a top-five QB in one or two seasons in his career, and never even close to being the best in the league even for a single season.

Earlier this year, Carroll and Schneider decided that the offers made by Washington and Denver were good enough that it was better to take one of them than to continue to try to make an offense work in the 2020s NFL with Russell Wilson at QB. So far, it looks like they were very, very right about that.

I don't think Wilson is quite as bad as he's been this season, and I expect him to be better next year. I've even been expecting him to improve at least a little this year from his current safely-in-the-bottom-quarter-of-the-league level, and even though he hasn't, I'm still expecting him to do so before the season ends. And next year, Wilson is likely to have a new coaching staff that will be hired to come in with a plan to get as much as possible out of him. He's likely to have a better roster around him, at least on offense, as players come back from injury. But I sincerely don't believe he'll ever again be among the five best QBs in the league over a full season. Then again, I'm not a professional evaluator of NFL player talent.

If Wilson had to have a worse-than-he-really-is (talent-wise) season, I'm glad it's happening in 2022, because the worse he plays, the better the picks in the first two rounds of the 2023 draft that the Seahawks got from the Broncos will be.

What an outstanding, well thought out and incredibly well written post. I agree 100%.

This is post of the year potential right here. Thank you.

 

[Hockey Guy]

This thread is why we can't have nice things.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Lol. I dont remember any of the other 31 franchises making the playoffs practically every season and not being able to move past the 2nd round at least sometimes in the past 8 to 9 years. Everybody always spouted that anything can happen once you make the playoffs, but it never seemed to be the case for Pete Carroll coached teams unless he had optimal talent at every position. This has been true even in his college days. Thats my take on Pete Carroll. He has to out talent other teams, because he isnt going to out coach them. Rams game yesterday was a perfect example.

Wait, you're telling me talent matters?

WOW, what a revelation!

So is it talent or coaching, make up your mind. Why did Belichick get his ass handed to him in the playoffs last year? I thought he could win SB's with little talent cause he's so amazing. Why is he in 4th place right now in the AFC East?

You mean it might just be that you need to be a good coach AND have a very talented and healthy roster to make deep playoff runs?

 

[pittpnthrs]

Wait, you're telling me talent matters?

WOW, what a revelation!

So is it talent or coaching, make up your mind. Why did Belichick get his ass handed to him in the playoffs last year? I thought he could win SB's with little talent cause he's so amazing. Why is he in 4th place right now in the AFC East?

You mean it might just be that you need to be a good coach AND have a very talented and healthy roster to make deep playoff runs?

Bellichik has no QB, running game, or receivers and still only has one more loss in a much harder division. Pete never had such a disadvantage. Sure, teams need to have talent, but they shouldnt need to be loaded at every position.

Its a coaching issue. Its why i'll always pick Holmgren over Carroll when all time Seahawk coaches are brought up. He did more with less.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Bellichik has no QB, running game, or receivers and still only has one more loss in a much harder division. Pete never had such a disadvantage. Sure, teams need to have talent, but they shouldnt need to be loaded at every position.

Its a coaching issue. Its why i'll always pick Holmgren over Carroll when all time Seahawk coaches are brought up. He did more with less.

Belichick is the head executive of that team. It's his fault that the shortcomings are there, bud. Be consistent, FFS. You're gonna give Bill a pass for his own rosters shortcomings?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Bellichik has no QB, running game, or receivers and still only has one more loss in a much harder division. Pete never had such a disadvantage. Sure, teams need to have talent, but they shouldnt need to be loaded at every position.

If you didn't see how Pete had a disadvantage with Russell the past 3-4 years, then you weren't paying attention.

But you're right, QB matters, and we're seeing it now. Pete's taken a QB off the scrap heap that literally NO ONE even made an offer to, and turned him into a Pro Bowl caliber QB who's now carrying this team with how terrible the defense is.

I'm wasting my breath with you. You can't even see reality through all this hate. There's never been a time where it's more evident that Pete knows what he's doing than this year, and how he covered up for as long as he could for Wilson's shortcomings.

 

[Year of The Hawk]

Bellichik has no QB, running game, or receivers and still only has one more loss in a much harder division. Pete never had such a disadvantage. Sure, teams need to have talent, but they shouldnt need to be loaded at every position.

Its a coaching issue. Its why i'll always pick Holmgren over Carroll when all time Seahawk coaches are brought up. He did more with less.

And Bellichik played in the worst division in football for almost if not all his success. Pete had great success while this division was a powerhouse. You take Holmgren all you want. Carroll is the current and most successful coach this franchise has ever had. He has been doing it for many years now and is on the precipice of creating another contender.

I always like how people point to the most successful coach in NFL history and say well Pet is not like him. Sheesh. There are many reasons for BB success and his coaching is just one part of it. I think a certain HOF QB gave him additional help as well. And lets not forget the whole crappy division thing.

Since Pete took over this team how many coaches have been as successful and consistent as he has? Go ahead and say BB. IMHO Pete was hamstrung by an average QB who had balls of steel for making comebacks while he underperformed during the rest of the game. He created a system where said QB would be successful. The limited the offense on what i could do and its creativity.

Now in our “rebuilding period” we are in the hunt for a division title. How many teams vie for a division title while “rebuilding”?

 

[JGreen79]

Lol. I dont need to say anything. You have said all that needs to be said.

We get it, You think top 3rd of the league is bad. Have to be the greatest ever or they suck right?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

We get it, You think top 3rd of the league is bad. Have to be the greatest ever or they suck right?

pitt's fatal flaw in his logic, or lack there of isn't that he thinks being in the top 3rd of the league now is bad..........it's that he falsely believes that Pete should have fared better over the past 8 years, and that's why he should be fired.

Because that's what all the other NFL teams do who have won Superbowls, they continue to go deep into the playoffs for the next decade + after winning.

Wait, that's never happened in the history of the modern NFL except for the Patriots.

Totally realistic expectations after an all time great defense is dismantled, hurt and underachieving with bloated contracts and your HOF level RB hits his wall. I mean, it happens every year, why not here?

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I'm guessing a lot of teams would love to be as "bad" as the Hawks have been under Pete and John.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I'm guessing a lot of teams would love to be as "bad" as the Hawks have been under Pete and John.

If we fired Pete, there'd be 15+ GM's and owners pulling a hamstring running to Pete begging him to take their millions to come rebuild their franchise.

There are only a handful of coaches that can do what Pete does, tear down a program and rebuild it into a Championship caliber organization. Locker room, culture, personnel, staff, scouting department, roster, development, sustainability. All of it.

Andy Reid, John Harbaugh, Bill Belichick, Mike Tomlin.......and Pete Carroll.

That's it. That's the list.

 

[Hawkpower]

pitt's fatal flaw in his logic, or lack there of isn't that he thinks being in the top 3rd of the league now is bad..........it's that he falsely believes that Pete should have fared better over the past 8 years, and that's why he should be fired.

Because that's what all the other NFL teams do who have won Superbowls, they continue to go deep into the playoffs for the next decade + after winning.

Wait, that's never happened in the history of the modern NFL except for the Patriots.

Totally realistic expectations after an all time great defense is dismantled, hurt and underachieving with bloated contracts and your HOF level RB hits his wall. I mean, it happens every year, why not here?

The Rams this year for example

 

[pittpnthrs]

If you didn't see how Pete had a disadvantage with Russell the past 3-4 years, then you weren't paying attention.

But you're right, QB matters, and we're seeing it now. Pete's taken a QB off the scrap heap that literally NO ONE even made an offer to, and turned him into a Pro Bowl caliber QB who's now carrying this team with how terrible the defense is.

I'm wasting my breath with you. You can't even see reality through all this hate. There's never been a time where it's more evident that Pete knows what he's doing than this year, and how he covered up for as long as he could for Wilson's shortcomings.

Russ had two bad years here after carrying the team for years. Wilson carried the team to playoff appearances and conference titles while the Pro Bowl caliber Geno Smith will be lucky to take the team to a .500 record. The defense has been crap for years now. Russ has done everything Geno has done, but only way better.

 

[pittpnthrs]

And Bellichik played in the worst division in football for almost if not all his success. Pete had great success while this division was a powerhouse. You take Holmgren all you want. Carroll is the current and most successful coach this franchise has ever had. He has been doing it for many years now and is on the precipice of creating another contender.

I always like how people point to the most successful coach in NFL history and say well Pet is not like him. Sheesh. There are many reasons for BB success and his coaching is just one part of it. I think a certain HOF QB gave him additional help as well. And lets not forget the whole crappy division thing.

Since Pete took over this team how many coaches have been as successful and consistent as he has? Go ahead and say BB. IMHO Pete was hamstrung by an average QB who had balls of steel for making comebacks while he underperformed during the rest of the game. He created a system where said QB would be successful. The limited the offense on what i could do and its creativity.

Now in our “rebuilding period” we are in the hunt for a division title. How many teams vie for a division title while “rebuilding”?

Any team can vie for a division title if the other teams in the conference fall off a cliff. Seattle is a perfect example of that. The 49ers are going to run away with the division anyways and we both know that, so its all a moot point. As for Pete's success? One measly Super Bowl with that roster? Any coach could have won at least one with that all star team.

Lets just see how far this team goes in the remainder of Pete's tenure. If they ever make it past the second round of the playoffs, i'll eat crow. I highly doubt that is ever going to happen though.

 

[pittpnthrs]

If we fired Pete, there'd be 15+ GM's and owners pulling a hamstring running to Pete begging him to take their millions to come rebuild their franchise.

Lololol. Nobody would be running to hire a 70 year old dinosaur to rebuild their team when he cant even rebuild his own. How many more years of a crappy defense (which Pete is supposed to be a defensive guru) are you going to accept?

 

[pittpnthrs]

The Rams this year for example

The Rams who took the Seahawks to the brink with probably the worst starting roster the NFL has seen in years? Yeah, awesome job Pete. You barely won a game that you should have won by 50. *applaud*

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Lololol. Nobody would be running to hire a 70 year old dinosaur to rebuild their team when he cant even rebuild his own. How many more years of a crappy defense (which Pete is supposed to be a defensive guru) are you going to accept?

That's right he's not rebuilding, he's sustaining success. 7-5 after trading away your franchise QB. What coaches have done that? Usually means five years of sub .500 wins.

You think that sustained success means deep playoff runs every year, normal rational fans like the rest of us know that's impossible.

Can I ask how old you are pitt? Or how long you've been rooting for the Hawks? Because your ignorance makes you seems like you're young and/or have no experience of what the Hawks were before Holmgren and Carroll.

Well I remember, and I'd rather not go back to that with a revolving door of bad coaches and GM's.