Let's Get This One Thing Straight…

[Year of The Hawk]

Same, 53.

You'd think you would have better perspective. Huh.

Age and experience do not equal wisdom.

 

[themunn]

With a generational, franchise QB (in which Russ was until a couple years ago), only winning one Super Bowl with the talent they had was a crime.

What dont you get? Carroll purposely tried to keep the games close. Always has. I will agree with you on that point,,,,,I never got it either.

Really? You think that when we went 12-4 in 2020 that Carroll went out and told Wilson "I want you to complete just 40% of your passes to keep the game close, that's how we'll win" in our playoff loss to the Rams?
Or in 2019 when we went 11-5 that he instructed Wilson not to score any points in the first half and let the Packers run the score up to 21-3 before starting the 2nd half in the divisional playoffs?
Or in 2018 where Wilson went 3 and out in the first 3 drives against the Cowboys in the playoffs then? Although that one we might have actually won if Janikowski didn't injure himself on a FG attempt.
In 2015 when we were 31-0 down AT THE HALF, was that Carroll holding Wilson back? Or, maybe, now that we realise those limitations were there the whole time, was Wilson holding Carroll back?
I mean shit, even in 2014 when we made the Superbowl, it was Wilson who almost threw it away by tossing 4 interceptions against the Packers in the NFFCG. And it WAS Wilson who threw the interception at the 1 yard line in the Superbowl.

Does it really feel like Carroll was the one holding us back in retrospect, given we've one of the leagues most potent offenses now with Gwere eno Smith under center?

I left out 2016 because I don't think that one's on Wilson, but do you think it was Carroll's fault the refs ****** us over with that Kevin Pierre Louis bullshit holding call (on what would have been a game changing play - instead of an 80 yard punt return we start in our own 10, and end up taking a safety on the very next play)?

Your eyes are blinkered. Even if Wilson is a generational QB, winning just 1 SB isn't atypical. Rodgers has 1, Manning has 2 but only played in half the Broncos games the season they won and was completely abysmal all year (hell he had a 56.6 passer rating in the SB). Drew Brees has 1. All 3 were better QBs than Wilson.

 

[Lagartixa]

Why do people throw around the term "generational" talking about Wilson? He's never been even close to being the best QB in the league over a single season, nor over the extent of his career. I mentioned both things because I can imagine a situation where a QB was always in the top five, but never #1, and then over a ten-year-or-longer stretch was the best overall, because it was different guys who were better than he was in different seasons, but that did not happen with Wilson.
"Generational" means something like "once in a generation." I say "something like" because it's pretty clear that Manning and Brady were both that exceptional, but happened to play at roughly the same time. In any case, Wilson is pretty clearly not that special. "Above-average"? Sure. "Excellent in some seasons"? Absolutely, with Pete Carroll and his staff finding ways to get the most out of Wilson's strengths while minimizing the effects of Wilson's weaknesses (until "let Russ cook" gave us ten Wilson turnovers in three games). But "generational"? NOT EVEN CLOSE!
Wilson has been the Seahawks' best QB in terms of career value by a pretty wide margin. I would say it goes Wilson - giant gap - Krieg - Hasselbeck - Zorn. There's probably a pretty sizeable jump between #3 and #4 too, if I'm being really honest, but my #4 was also my first childhood sports hero, and I own a throwback jersey with his name and number and wore it to my first-ever Seahawks home game in 2019 (I had previously gone to Seahawks games in Foxborough in 1984 and 1986). If anyone wants to argue about who's second and who's third, I'm not gonna argue too much about it, because I think there are probably pretty good arguments for switching those two, but I think there are good arguments for putting Krieg ahead of Hasselbeck too, and it's difficult to be sure because they played in different eras.
In any case, "all-time best Seahawks QB" is clearly very different from "one of the greatest NFL QBs of all time." And I think it's very clear who the all-time best Seahawks QB (in terms of total value in his time on the Seahawks) was.

The Seahawks coaching staff was able to do some really great things with Wilson as the starting QB. The team never had a period of consistent winning like this before. Like others in this thread, I'm in my fifties and I started with the Seahawks as a grade-school kid in 1976. I remember things like the magical 1983 season, but I also remember the 1990s.

The current dumpster fire in Denver with Wilson "unshackled," coupled with the Seahawks' strong offense with a QB nobody wanted (example: Seahawks are fifth in offensive points per game, Broncos are 32nd) is fairly strong evidence that not only were Carroll and the Seahawks staff not holding Wilson back in 2012-2021, they were getting the most out of him. I'll be the first to admit it doesn't prove that, but it suggests that pretty strongly.

 

[ImTheScientist]

The OP's narrative is old and sad.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

but.......is it a YOUNG narrative?

 

[renofox]

Why do people throw around the term "generational" talking about Wilson?

Because he changed the way the NFL looked at the viability of smaller/running QBs in the modern game, and paved the way for many QBs who are currently playing but would probably have never been drafted and given opportunities but for RW's success.

He ushered in a generational change in QB attributes and playing style.

 

[Hawkpower]

Because he changed the way the NFL looked at the viability of smaller/running QBs in the modern game, and paved the way for many QBs who are currently playing but would probably have never been drafted and given opportunities but for RW's success.

He ushered in a generational change in QB attributes and playing style.

Certainly an accurate description of young RW, but I guess that it all depends on how one views the definition of a generational QB

Some are probably pushing back because traditionally it's a QB who is at the top of the league for years at a time, a once in a generation talent at the position

Tom Brady comes to mind as a more accurate description of this to me anyway

 

[pittpnthrs]

Same, 53.

You'd think you would have better perspective. Huh.

Well, I would think you would have a better perspective instead of ignoring the obvious. I cant blame you though Sarge, fandom blinds a lot of people.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Well, I would think you would have a better perspective instead of ignoring the obvious. I cant blame you though Sarge, fandom blinds a lot of people.

Better perspective is expecting your NFL team to go deep into the playoffs every year even though it's a parity league and literally no franchise outside of one has ever done that for a prolonged period of time in the history of modern football?

Yeah.....it's me not you.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

With a win this Sunday, Pete Carroll is about to be tied for #17 on the ALL TIME WINS LIST IN NFL HISTORY.

Does he drive us crazy sometimes? Absolutely. But again, 17th on the ALL TIME WINS LIST.
What will be the reasoning that "Pete Sucks" now Fade?

 

[chrispy]

So...since this thread titled, "Let's get one thing straight" has not straightened out even one thing but has accomplished the opposite on several topics, here's a question:

Since many of us are spread across a wide grayscale regarding RCWs value while a Seahawk, what would it take for Geno to surpass him?

If one credits RCW with leading the team to one SB win, but blames PC for all else, would a SB win with Geno at the helm equate their success?

If one blames RCW for the failures, and credits Pete for the SB win, does that diminish Geno's accomplishments so far and in the future?

Hypothetically, if the Seahawks were to win the NFCW in 2022, win it all in 2023 and win the NFCCG in '24, all behind Geno, does he leapfrog RCW in the list of top Seahawk QBs? Would it require back-to-back Championships...or does it require 10 yrs of stats? How do you measure success?

 

[pittpnthrs]

Better perspective is expecting your NFL team to go deep into the playoffs every year even though it's a parity league and literally no franchise outside of one has ever done that for a prolonged period of time in the history of modern football?

Yeah.....it's me not you.

Everybody wants to say every year and thats not even close. I would much rather see them go further into the playoffs less often than losing in the early years for consecutive years. Show me some type of improvement rather than habitual results.

 

[IndyHawk]

So...since this thread titled, "Let's get one thing straight" has not straightened out even one thing but has accomplished the opposite on several topics, here's a question:

Since many of us are spread across a wide grayscale regarding RCWs value while a Seahawk, what would it take for Geno to surpass him?

If one credits RCW with leading the team to one SB win, but blames PC for all else, would a SB win with Geno at the helm equate their success?

If one blames RCW for the failures, and credits Pete for the SB win, does that diminish Geno's accomplishments so far and in the future?

Hypothetically, if the Seahawks were to win the NFCW in 2022, win it all in 2023 and win the NFCCG in '24, all behind Geno, does he leapfrog RCW in the list of top Seahawk QBs? Would it require back-to-back Championships...or does it require 10 yrs of stats? How do you measure success?

I'll credit @Fade for one thing he does very well..Creates stir up topics like
a troll and then he'll dissapear after it gets going.
I'm not bashing him just crediting him for it really..He has a talent to do it.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Everybody wants to say every year and thats not even close. I would much rather see them go further into the playoffs less often than losing in the early years for consecutive years. Show me some type of improvement rather than habitual results.

95% of the league would kill to have had our level of "habitual results" success over the past decade.

Most NFL Wins Past Decade (2014-2023) | EDSFootball.com

Ranking NFL franchises by wins over the past 10 NFL seasons (2014-2023).

eatdrinkandsleepfootball.com

Again, perspective. You lack it in spades.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Yeah, things have been SOOOOOOO horrible the last decade plus. SB Title, back to back trips to the SB, 8 playoffs in 10 years.

Gross.........

 

[Year of The Hawk]

Why does the Pete haters always say the reason they did so good is because of X or Y but not Pete. How many teams have a great QB or defense and have a great year or two but then stink things up. The consistency the Seahawks have had for the past decade is almost unheard of in the modern era. The only consistent factor in all those years is Pete and John. If you can’t give them credit for the past decades success then I feel your opinion is skewed by something other than facts.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Believe it or not, it's the players AND Pete that have made this a success in Seattle the last several years. Honest question, why does it always have to be one or the other?

 

[Hockey Guy]

Why does the Pete haters always say the reason they did so good is because of X or Y but not Pete. How many teams have a great QB or defense and have a great year or two but then stink things up. The consistency the Seahawks have had for the past decade is almost unheard of in the modern era. The only consistent factor in all those years is Pete and John. If you can’t give them credit for the past decades success then I feel your opinion is skewed by something other than facts.

Look, pittpnthrs is on record & has actually posted that he wants Pete gone & does not care whether the change works & we have to endure a series of 4-12 seasons as a result.

He's just ready for a change & wants to see if he's right that it's Pete that holding us back.

You'd think he'd change his tune slightly after seeing RW floundering in a different situation & Pete's confidence with & work with a supposed "terrible" QB but here we are.

In his mind Pete still has no idea what he's looking at when it comes to football & will continue to hold us back as he changes the definition of "Peteball" to suit his narrative.

 

[Year of The Hawk]

Believe it or not, it's the players AND Pete that have made this a success in Seattle the last several years. Honest question, why does it always have to be one or the other?

Agree sort of. What players have been here though all the success including this year? Pete has created a system and culture for winning. All teams have some good players. It making everything work together is the hard part.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Nah, their success was the players AND Pete