Keep Pete or Russ?

[toffee]

Actually a difficult choice,

With Pete and Russ:
I have no doubt that if Russ didn't hurt his finger, or football GOD smiled at us a little bit, we will be in the playoff this season. With Pete and Russ, we shall be in the playoff.

With new HC and Russ:
New dude will change things, that could mean good or bad, some intrigue there. New guy may want a complete do over under his own image or vision. If the new guy is a Rich Kotite, who replaced Pete at Jets, we could take an instant step back, from 6-10 to 3-13. Or, we could luck in Belichick, NE was 8-8 under Pete in '94 and 5-11 under Bill in '95.

With Pete and new QB
If our defense play slightly better than '21 no reason why they couldn't and offense somehow managed to play at '21 level under Geno, We may end up with similar result to this year. A lot more young guys may get to play, remember the draft picks from Russ' trade?

With new HC and new QB
Will it happen?

So it comes down to how will you like to be entertained? Join J63 to praise Russ, join Fade to critique Pete? or Something different.

 

[olyfan63]

Great points made in this thread, by both Team Russ and Team Pete.

I'm on team Pete, I'd rather roll the dice on Pete getting back to his original formula that led to 2 SB appearances and 1 win. As soon as we paid the QB, our team couldn't field the overall talent needed to win tough playoff games. Pete HAS reinvented himself several times over his career, and I think he can make the needed adjustments. Changing to a McVay-style offense by bringing in Shane Waldron IMO was a nod by Pete to the needed changes, but Russell was not able to consistently run this effectively. It seems like KNJ must go, but I really don't know if that's best, only Pete does. I've sometimes felt KNJ is like the bad cop to Pete's good cop, and that's fine, if that's their division of labor, but better, faster adjustments would be good. Maybe the real issue was CB talent, but something needs to change.

I believe the rest of the NFL has largely "figured out" Russell Wilson, but only the teams with really good overall D including a strong pass rush can truly stop him. Seahawks don't have a run game that can dictate to defenses, and get them out of the schemes Russell struggles with. Russell can be good again on a team with a great D and a strong run game, because he also has the trait that he protects the ball, doesn't turn it over, gives the team a chance to win, and can hit some deep throws in key moments. However, his loss of quickness and speed affects his ability to scramble and create those deep throws; lately too many turn into sacks where that lost-half step

Hawker55, I respectfully disagree because it wasn't all on Myers. You saw how that kick seemed to be accurate and sailed wide really late, which would not have happened had it been 13 yards closer. Which was Russ' fault more than even PCs, as people here have said. Russ was allowed to "cook" and that's what happened.

That's why I think the Tweet showed Russ' hubris. He can't take responsibility for his own mistakes, so he tries to cover it up with fake sympathy for this kicker.

Actually, I'd call it 18 yards closer; Russ had Deejay Dallas open for an easy 5 yarder and *maybe* a first down if Dallas breaks one tackle, 13+5=18. Russ clearly turned his nose up at that one. But your assessment of the kick is spot on, it took a weird break to the left at the last minute, possibly some wacky stadium wind conditions going on. Russell had a situational football brain fart in taking that sack. Simply throwing an incomplete with no sack = win. Never saw Russell truly take accountability for that unbelievable decision. Truth is, it's a microcosm of 2021 Russell, holding out for hero-ball, passing up on moving the chains, leading to a worn-down defense and late game losses, with Russell able to pull precisely NONE of his late-game magic out of the hat; he is 0-for-5 in 4th quarter win-or-tie drive opportunities.

 

[OrangeGravy]

Good insight into Russell's game and tendencies and how they affect play calling and line play. Every OC has discovered these things for themselves. I think where Pete has failed is not by being the cause, but by refusing to accept where the true common issue is.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Seahawks/comme ... urce=share

 

[pittpnthrs]

I'm on team Pete, I'd rather roll the dice on Pete getting back to his original formula that led to 2 SB appearances and 1 win. As soon as we paid the QB, our team couldn't field the overall talent needed to win tough playoff games. Pete HAS reinvented himself several times over his career, and I think he can make the needed adjustments. Changing to a McVay-style offense by bringing in Shane Waldron IMO was a nod by Pete to the needed changes, but Russell was not able to consistently run this effectively. It seems like KNJ must go, but I really don't know if that's best, only Pete does. I've sometimes felt KNJ is like the bad cop to Pete's good cop, and that's fine, if that's their division of labor, but better, faster adjustments would be good. Maybe the real issue was CB talent, but something needs to change.

I disagree with you. Pete will never get close to another SB so i'm not sure why somebody would want to gamble on that. In order for Petes outdated scheme to work he needs a dominant defense and punishing run game. He'll never have either ever again. Fielding talent hasent been because they cant afford it, its because they have been terrible at it with drafting and reckless FA signings. When has Pete EVER reinvented himself? Its the same thing every single year. Hiring Waldron doesnt equate to changing to a McVay style of offense. After the first game when the offense looked great, Pete publicly said Waldron was aware of how he wanted things done and agreed to abide by them and the offense went straight back to being predictable and lacking. Coincidence? I dont think so. The question is why does Pete nerf the offense every single year at some point? What is his line of thinking when doing so? Regardless, Pete is hurting the franchise more than he is helping it and should have stepped down years ago.

 

[olyfan63]

I disagree with you. Pete will never get close to another SB so i'm not sure why somebody would want to gamble on that. In order for Petes outdated scheme to work he needs a dominant defense and punishing run game. He'll never have either ever again. Fielding talent hasent been because they cant afford it, its because they have been terrible at it with drafting and reckless FA signings. When has Pete EVER reinvented himself? Its the same thing every single year. Hiring Waldron doesnt equate to changing to a McVay style of offense. After the first game when the offense looked great, Pete publicly said Waldron was aware of how he wanted things done and agreed to abide by them and the offense went straight back to being predictable and lacking. Coincidence? I dont think so. The question is why does Pete nerf the offense every single year at some point? What is his line of thinking when doing so? Regardless, Pete is hurting the franchise more than he is helping it and should have stepped down years ago.

Fair enough on those *opinions*, and that's primarily what they are, mix of your opinions with few common things I will stipulate to as facts we agree on.

The Hawks are only 1 season removed from a 12-4 division championship team, but yes, playoff success has been elusive, we agree on.

"When has Pete ever reinvented himself?" Don't you recall that Pete Carroll was the head coach of the NY Jets and then New England Patriots for a couple years? Robert Kraft fired Pete, I think it was after the 1999 Season. Certainly Pete had to reinvent himself to go from a fired NFL coach to a Super-Bowl-winning coach. Not to mention winning a national championship with USC.

Sorry, but your take on PETE himself, and his coaching, is just knee-jerk reaction emotional and silly, and ignores Pete's coaching superpowers. Just as Russell has some serious QB Superpowers, and some deficiencies, Pete has Coaching Superpowers and deficiencies as well. Superpower: player development, team culture, player motivation, others. Average: Game planning, game-day adjustments; Deficiencies: Excessive loyalty to underperforming assistant coaches, and/or failure to fully delegate or mesh philosophies with assistant coaches; game-day adjustments in some cases; "Impose our will" philosophy instead of "exploit opponent weaknesses/matchup advantages" philosophy;

Pete has underperformed in the GM decision oversight area, we agree on that. Trading for "shiny new toy" players, and overpaying for them and/or not using them to their strengths (J Graham).

We can agree that Pete hasn't had GM Superpowers since 2013 or so. Question is, have Pete and John learned and adjusted their philosophy, and/or will they bring in consulting brainpower to help them do better?

IMO this team is about 5 player upgrades away from being a legit contender. I'd rather bet on Pete (and John) improving a little bit in a small handful of areas, while continuing to do the things well they already do well, to me that's a better bet than betting on Russell reverting to the younger, faster, more elusive, and especially cheaper version of Russell that got the Hawks into 2 SBs and won 1.

Pete hates losing, he is a competitor, and that is what will drive him to reinvent himself one more time. That's a better bet than bringing in a shiny new toy of a coach. Urban Meyer was last year's shiny new NFL coaching toy, Dennis Erickson once was, and I'd certainly rather have another year of Pete than Meyer or say, peak Dennis Erickson.

 

[massari]

Good insight into Russell's game and tendencies and how they affect play calling and line play. Every OC has discovered these things for themselves. I think where Pete has failed is not by being the cause, but by refusing to accept where the true common issue is.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Seahawks/comme ... urce=share

It an hour long podcast. Some cliffs notes would be appreciated by everyone reading this thread.

But if the top comment on the Reddit link you posted is accurate, it probably doesn't matter since it's the same talking points. Nothing fresh.

"I’m surprised they were able to make a whole podcast out of: “It’s because Russ refuses to throw to Metcalf, refuses to throw over the middle, refuses to throw to the check-downs, and only throws moonballs"

 

[QuahHawk]

"I’m surprised they were able to make a whole podcast out of: “It’s because Russ refuses to throw to Metcalf, refuses to throw over the middle, refuses to throw to the check-downs, and only throws moonballs"

I don't think Russ is refusing to throw to DK out of spite but sure seems like he doesn't trust him to just make the play. Hard to see a talent that good only get a few targets a game. As much on Russ as the OC.

 

[QuahHawk]

Looks like 60% of people are going to be disappointed. Do you still fell like we should have kept Russ after it has been made obvious he wanted out?

 

[Elemas]

Just voted Russ.

Wish me lock. I mean luck!

 

[Fade]

Bookmarked for future ownage.

 

[QuahHawk]

Russ is a fake leader. I mean his teammates know more than fans do but I see a giant phony.

I will roll the dice on a different QB. Even if it take 5 years.

Absolutely he's a fake leader who was sheltered by Pete and that led to
the end of the boom and where we are today.
Btw does a real team leader tweet out his kicker like he did?
What a cuck.

Watching his presser in Denver today and the whole media circus Ciara and him put on at the children's Hospital made me chuckle. Thanks Denver!

 

[QuahHawk]

Bookmarked for future ownage.

Can I reverse my vote now?

 

[Rainger]

LOL LOL LOL I voted for Pete!!!!!!!!!

 

[Maelstrom787]

LOL LOL LOL I voted for Pete!!!!!!!!!

You and I both, bud. You and I both.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Bookmarked for future ownage.

Lookin' grim so far, and even worse as Russ is about to turn 34.

 

[GemCity]

I just voted Pete

 

[Maelstrom787]

I just voted Pete

Let the record show that, at the time of your posting this, the tally is 33 Pete 47 Russ.

 

[nwHawk]

I was on the trade Russ bus for the past few seasons. I sleep just fine at night.

 

[toffee]

I was on the trade Russ bus for the past few seasons. I sleep just fine at night.

You and me both,

 

[DarkVictory23]

I didn't vote (I personally wanted an option to say both if we're really planning a rebuild) but did say I would lean towards keeping Pete over Russ.

Feels good, man.