Does anyone else think Seattle won the trade?

[scutterhawk]

Maybe, but the point is that they got rid of a coach that won at a high clip. Because they knew they would continue to win at a high clip with a different coach, because the QB was the primary reason for those wins...not the coach.
Doesn't Mike McCarthy have a SB win just like Pete too?
(Honestly , not like Pete though, since Pete built one of the most dominant defenses in the history of the NFL)

Point is, you can replace your coach - and keep winning at a high (or higher!) clip because your QB drives the wins - not the coach.

Sword cuts both ways....You can just as easily lose, THERE AIN'T NO GUARANTEES.
The powers that be KNEW the limitations of both parties, & decided that it was Pete & John who formulated the plans that got the Seahawks their FIRST Lombardi, with an OUTSTANDING DEFENSE, & a Greenhorn Rook Quarterback, flanked by 'THE BEAST'.
Pete was rewarded with a Contract extension by Paul Allen.
Whether some of y'all like it or not, Jody Allen chose to follow suit & keep the man who orchestrated the most successful Team in the History of the Seattle Seahawks....She made THE most well thought out, sensible & CORRECT choice.

 

[Rainger]

Big time, one of the best trades ever made!!!!!

Didn't think so initially but am damn sure of it now.

 

[flv2]

Mike's replacement immediately ran the ball almost 50% more than McCarthy did in his final year, much more akin to a Carroll offense.

Carries by the top 2 RBs on the Packers roster increased from 254 in 2018 to 343 in 2019, an increase of 35%. This excludes other RBs which wuld drop that percentage a bit more. Additionally McCarthy's replacement had the #1 RB available for all 16 games whilst McCarthy only had him available for 12 games. The basic point is correct but there's some exaggeration.

 

[flv2]

While it is laid out at OTC, the Rams model is very short term and does not allow for a lot of depth on the roster. In short they have to rely on a few players being dominant enough to win the day for them and if they are out for whatever reason the model begins to fall apart. If they are borrowed against future cap far enough ahead then the team simply tanks until they finally again have cap or draft picks and are able to rebuild. For them things look god short term but not so good longer term.

True, but quality depth requires either deep cap reserves or the development of unheralded Draft day players. The Rams have excelled with low pick and UDFA development, and have done so for a decade. For all teams the future will largely rely on some luck with player acquisition.

 

[JPatera76]

While it is laid out at OTC, the Rams model is very short term and does not allow for a lot of depth on the roster. In short they have to rely on a few players being dominant enough to win the day for them and if they are out for whatever reason the model begins to fall apart. If they are borrowed against future cap far enough ahead then the team simply tanks until they finally again have cap or draft picks and are able to rebuild. For them things look god short term but not so good longer term.

That’s very true, AD, Kupp are the primary to. Take kupp out the offense looks no different than what Stafford had in Detroit. Take AD away, the defense is below average at best.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Is this the new bar for Pete Carroll now? 39-9?

Flip the numbers around and you'll be closer to being correct.

 

[hawkfan68]

"118 less offensive plays" = A lot more 3 & outs.

Not necessarily. It could also mean they were scoring quicker too. Meaning less plays involved.

 

[rcaido]

Not necessarily. It could also mean they were scoring quicker too. Meaning less plays involved.

That and the lack of Time of Possession.

Greenbay was ranked #3 ToP (560:37) and #10 in scoring (26.5)
Seattle was ranked dead last #32 (435:02) but #16 in scoring (23.2)

What's interesting is that Seattle is the only losing team that had a higher scoring vs opponents scoring

The defense were ranked #12 in giving up points but were bottom tier team giving up yardage.

The offense was also #1 in not turning it over but also lack any takeway ranked #24.

 

[LeaveLynchAlone]

Flip the numbers around and you'll be closer to being correct.

 

[JayhawkMike]

Sword cuts both ways....You can just as easily lose, THERE AIN'T NO GUARANTEES.
The powers that be KNEW the limitations of both parties, & decided that it was Pete & John who formulated the plans that got the Seahawks their FIRST Lombardi, with an OUTSTANDING DEFENSE, & a Greenhorn Rook Quarterback, flanked by 'THE BEAST'.
Pete was rewarded with a Contract extension by Paul Allen.
Whether some of y'all like it or not, Jody Allen chose to follow suit & keep the man who orchestrated the most successful Team in the History of the Seattle Seahawks....She made THE most well thought out, sensible & CORRECT choice.

It was the wrong choice.

I imagine you think PC should be given a lifetime contract for what he did 7 years ago. Coughlin was gone TWO years after winning the Super Bowl because he was failing. Pete failing? Let’s get rid of the star QB and give the senior citizen a big contract extension. It was lazy and thoughtless by Jody. Once you e peaked on the bell curve and start going down the slope you need to make moves to start another one and head up. In this case Pete has been allowed to take the team back to the exact level he found it - if not worse.

 

[scutterhawk]

Not necessarily. It could also mean they were scoring quicker too. Meaning less plays involved.

The discrepancy in the TOP says otherwise.
And MOST of the scoring came in the 4th quarter, with the first 3 SUCKING because of the plethora of 3 & outs. Time to recognize & tell the TRUTH for what it is/was..."Less Plays Involved" can also mean that the Offense had been stymied for much of the game, WHICH IS THE ACTUAL TRUTH and why Russ was hell bent for election to put it all together & try'n win the game in the 4th quarter and playing against the Rams Defense in the last few years...it NEVER WORKED.

 

[scutterhawk]

It was the wrong choice.

I imagine you think PC should be given a lifetime contract for what he did 7 years ago. Coughlin was gone TWO years after winning the Super Bowl because he was failing. Pete failing? Let’s get rid of the star QB and give the senior citizen a big contract extension. It was lazy and thoughtless by Jody. Once you e peaked on the bell curve and start going down the slope you need to make moves to start another one and head up. In this case Pete has been allowed to take the team back to the exact level he found it - if not worse.

Look, I could care less if Twisted, & y'all choose to hate on "Senior Citizens", That's your own crosses to bear. Someday you're going to be an old fart too, & if your lucky, maybe y'all will pick up some sage along the way, and realize how disrespectful & free with the insults that you were in THESE DAYS.

 

[toffee]

It was the wrong choice.

I imagine you think PC should be given a lifetime contract for what he did 7 years ago. Coughlin was gone TWO years after winning the Super Bowl because he was failing. Pete failing? Let’s get rid of the star QB and give the senior citizen a big contract extension. It was lazy and thoughtless by Jody. Once you e peaked on the bell curve and start going down the slope you need to make moves to start another one and head up. In this case Pete has been allowed to take the team back to the exact level he found it - if not worse.

Have you noticed that Pete's memory and energy level has deteriorated, unless you have, your accusations are just that, a speculation.

 

[chrispy]

Wait... Did we trade Pete Carroll? I thought this was about the Wilson trade....


It seems to me that both parties won. I know that's a cop out, but really.

The Broncos need a big change and their QB position has been terrible since Manning. Even if Wilson performs like last year and their record stays the same (both Broncos and Seahawks had a 7-10 record last season) they can point toward the future and the fanbase will be energized and they can continue to "build around the franchise QB." That's a better place for them even in the worst case scenario.

The Seahawks had been in decline for a couple years. There was discontent between certain parties and the owner decided to stick with the Front Office. Again, a big change was needed to avoid a slow decline into, well, we all remember. Because the new picks stretch out 2 years, there's really an expectation that a couple year window is reasonable to watch/wait for results. As long as there is some solid drafting, exciting young play and not a huge drop in the win-loss record, the Seahawks are in a better place too. Once you accept that JAllen chose PC/JS, it's difficult for me to see a successful path forward without the trade. As long as Pete is Head Coach, the team is in a better situation today than it would have been without the trade. ... so that makes it a win for Seattle too. Even if Wilson lights it up in Denver, it wouldn't have worked here. It didn't work here.

 

[toffee]

We absolutely won, and here's why:

We had two options:

1. We fire Pete, John, and pay Russ $50mil, let him pick his own HC, GM and OC. We will have limited Cap for FA and even more limited draft picks, remember our roster had big holes.
2. Do what we have done, we will have cap next season, lots of draft picks.

We wisely picked 2, because few, heck, so far zero star players willing to take a pay cut and join Russ. Now think, What kind of self respecting coach gm can you hire if they have to kowtow to a player?

We will have tough couple of years, I think most on dot net are prepared and enjoying the rebuilding process, I know that I am enjoying it.

 

[TwistedHusky]

The truth is that there probably wasn't a way to win.
This seems more like the Shawn Kemp and George Karl thing, where both are nowhere near as effective without each other.

We will see. The rumors out of Denver are that Wilson is better than advertised, which probably means he is worse than expected.
And I don't see Carroll having much if any value without Wilson.
Still it feels like the only chance at potentially winning would have been to hope that another coach could get from Wilson that which Carroll could/would not.

That would be a slim chance, admittedly. Especially after his playing that way for this long would be difficult to change. But it was the only real chance.

So with that chance removed, there probably isn't much of one moving forward. Sorry. No winning that trade.

 

[rcaido]

We absolutely won, and here's why:

We had two options:

1. We fire Pete, John, and pay Russ $50mil, let him pick his own HC, GM and OC. We will have limited Cap for FA and even more limited draft picks, remember our roster had big holes.
2. Do what we have done, we will have cap next season, lots of draft picks.

We wisely picked 2, because few, heck, so far zero star players willing to take a pay cut and join Russ. Now think, What kind of self respecting coach gm can you hire if they have to kowtow to a player?

We will have tough couple of years, I think most on dot net are prepared and enjoying the rebuilding process, I know that I am enjoying it.

If you look at all the top paid QB right now, they are playing for winning teams.

1) Rogers
2) Mahomes
3)Waston(probably if he plays)
4) Allen
5) Carr (meh)
6) Stafford
7) Prescot

These teams are able to pay their QB and still win. Once you trade them, then pretty much zero chance making the playoffs for years. That's losing in a trade. Wilson is better than half of these guys. We should have kept Wilson and kept him happy until he retired. When he retires is when you do the rebuilding process.

 

[toffee]

If you look at all the top paid QB right now, they are playing for winning teams.

1) Rogers
2) Mahomes
3)Waston(probably if he plays)
4) Allen
5) Carr (meh)
6) Stafford
7) Prescot

These teams are able to pay their QB and still win. Once you trade them, then pretty much zero chance making the playoffs for years. That's losing in a trade. Wilson is better than half of these guys. We should have kept Wilson and kept him happy until he retired. When he retires is when you do the rebuilding process.

we shall compare notes in three years

 

[Rainger]

It was the wrong choice.

I imagine you think PC should be given a lifetime contract for what he did 7 years ago. Coughlin was gone TWO years after winning the Super Bowl because he was failing. Pete failing? Let’s get rid of the star QB and give the senior citizen a big contract extension. It was lazy and thoughtless by Jody. Once you e peaked on the bell curve and start going down the slope you need to make moves to start another one and head up. In this case Pete has been allowed to take the team back to the exact level he found it - if not worse.

Just absolute bullshit

 

[pittpnthrs]

Just absolute bullshit

Its not though. There is a reason Carroll has a sub .500 record without Wilson.