What if Denver craps the bed

[toffee]

Make that more like 40 times a year. Your 30-35 sacks/year projection has no defensible historical basis imo.

Except for his rookie season (33 sacks), Russ has always taken more than 40 sacks every year. One year he topped out at 51, and then 48, and then 47, all in consecutive years.

You can't include last year (33 sacks) because he played in only 76% of the team's 17-game total QB snaps due to his hand injury.

Had he not gotten injured, his 2021 projected sack total was 43 (33/0.76 = 43).

I'd put the O/U of Russ' 2022 sack total at 40.

Add a couple as their OL adapt to play with Wilson.

 

[m0ng0]

Maybe Hass and Tkqxk

The data doesn't support your opinion.

Under Holmgren for 8 seasons, Matt Hasselbeck was sacked an average of 33 times per year.

Under Carroll for one year, Matt was sacked 29 times in 14 games, which projects to 33 sacks had he played in all 16 games that season.

Maybe Matt and Tjack didn't hold the ball so long?

 

[hoxrox]

The last few years say otherwise. His handicap isn't a stubborn coaching staff. Its not being able to quickly diagnose defenses and make the right read quickly, consistently. He's also handicapped in that he has to take deep drops to get an accurate survey of the field.
And finally, he's handicapped because the spontaneous, creative, free lancing aspect of his play has been slowed by father time. That style of play is also counter to sustaining drives and being able to consistently game plan an opponent / make adjustments on the fly - you can't fine tune an offense or evaluate a game plan if said game plan isn't executed because every other play is improvised.

Denver's problem. But we'll get a decent mid round 1st from them.

100%. Russ was not only at his best when he had speed and escapability, but also when he was a dual threat to run it on any given down. Then he became a little too enamored with the hero ball. And unfortunately, that made him one-dimensional and easy to defend.

If we still had 2015 "Houdini" Russ, sign me up. But 2022 "my legacy > the team" Russ at 55 mil per year? No thanks. I'll gladly take my lumps with our bridge QB, and then look forward to our QBOTF in 2023.

 

[toffee]

100%. Russ was not only at his best when he had speed and escapability, but also when he was a dual threat to run it on any given down. Then he became a little too enamored with the hero ball. And unfortunately, that made him one-dimensional and easy to defend.

If we still had 2015 "Houdini" Russ, sign me up. But 2022 "my legacy > the team" Russ at 55 mil per year? No thanks. I'll gladly take my lumps with our bridge QB, and then look forward to our QBOTF in 2023.

Exactly how lots of us felt.

 

[Donn2390]

Interesting take, but let me put this canard out of its misery.

A creative, think on your feet, spontaneous, "free-lancing" QB of the once-in-a-generation make-up of Russell Wilson, cannot, by definition, be solved. Ever.

He can be handicapped by a stubborn coaching staff, but not solved.

The coaching staff was handicapped by a stubborn QB who thought it was his team and refused to follow the directions of the coach. He thought he is smarter and knows better than the coaches and he was going to do it his way on no way. They should have parted ways years ago, so RW could have taken his ego somewhere else..

 

[Palmegranite]

The coaching staff was handicapped by a stubborn QB who thought it was his team and refused to follow the directions of the coach.

Yeah, and that's what made Wayne Gretzky such a good hockey player too..

...follow the directions of the coach....ha ha.

What a simplistic and terrible take.

 

[keasley45]

Russel wilson is nowhere near the talent at qb that Gretzky was at hockey. Different universes. Gretzky was transcendent. Russel is phenomenal at what HE does. But that's the issue. He does what HE does. Plays the way HE plays. Regardless of the playbook, coordinator, etc. And when defenses figured out how to stop him and we didn't have a run game we could (or he was willing to) lean on, everything stopped.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Lol. The people thinking Seattle is better off now without Wilson are in for a rude awakening.

 

[misfit]

The data doesn't support your opinion.

Under Holmgren for 8 seasons, Matt Hasselbeck was sacked an average of 33 times per year.

Under Carroll for one year, Matt was sacked 29 times in 14 games, which projects to 33 sacks had he played in all 16 games that season.

33 sacks in 2010 would of made matt the 8th most sacked qb in the league. def not the very top of the league but that is up there.

Tarvaris was sacked 42 times in 2011 #2 in the nfl

 

[keasley45]

Lol. The people thinking Seattle is better off now without Wilson are in for a rude awakening.

The people that think Russ was held back by an archaic offensive philosophy are as well.

 

[keasley45]

33 sacks in 2010 would of made matt the 8th most sacked qb in the league. def not the very top of the league but that is up there.

Tarvaris was sacked 42 times in 2011 #2 in the nfl

And Tavares wasn't the fastest at anticipating reads either.

And Matt's highest sack totals came under Holmgren.

You can make the argument that Pete might prioritize certain attributes in a qb, but to try to spin that into Pete's offense or 'peteball' generating sacks isn't necessarily a legitimate argument. Stick a qb in the Hawks scheme during his tenure who has great anticipation and the sack totals go down.

 

[keasley45]

If Lock builds on his rookie season when he ran an offense similar to Shane's and develops the ability to make the reads within the scheme, he could put up better numbers (and post fewer sacks) than you might think.

Same can be said for whatever qb we may end up getting in 2023. He won't by default turn into a beanbag sack machine just by virtue of his playing for Pete.

 

[misfit]

And Tavares wasn't the fastest at anticipating reads either.

You can make the argument that Pete might prioritize certain attributes in a qb, but to try to spin that into Pete's offense or 'peteball' generating sacks isn't necessarily a legitimate argument. Stick a qb in the Hawks scheme during his tenure who has great anticipation and the sack totals go down.

I think Russ and Pete worked for a while because some of their philosophies aligned. I think they both love the deep ball. But lets not fool ourselves and say Pete loves the midrange game or anything, I think Pete scheme is about running the ball and beating defenses over the top when they bring the defense up with long developing plays which can lead to more sacks.

 

[pittpnthrs]

The people that think Russ was held back by an archaic offensive philosophy are as well.

We're going to find out arent we?

 

[keasley45]

I think Russ and Pete worked for a while because some of their philosophies aligned. I think they both love the deep ball. But lets not fool ourselves and say Pete loves the midrange game or anything, I think Pete scheme is about running the ball and beating defenses over the top when they bring the defense up with long developing plays which can lead to more sacks.

Agree 100%. I also think he was on record as being extremely frustrated by the fact that for the last two years, his qb wasn't taking what was there and adapting to an offense that wasn't utilizing a run game - an offense that as a result NEEDED to exploit the short and intermediate game. Pete green lit Schotty and Russ doing their thing and pulled the plug when Russ couldn't adapt to the long ball going away. He green lit Shane and Russ last year as well and was oft fuming at the passing game being one dimensional. His stance - if you're going to pass, then do it correctly, AND incorporate the run to help.

 

[keasley45]

We're going to find out arent we?

Yup.

 

[TreeRon]

Question: If Denver doesn't "crap the bed" will all the Russ haters "crap their beds"?

 

[Lagartixa]

Question: If Denver doesn't "crap the bed" will all the Russ haters "crap their beds"?

Question: if the Broncos, despite having a better roster than the Seahawks, fail to make the AFCCG, will the RW3-and-out fellators come up with new excuses?

Bonus question: will they find a way to blame Pete Carroll?

 

[onanygivensunday]

Let's turn this thread in a slightly different direction.

Last year, Denver went 7-10, last in the AFCW. They went 3-9 in conference, 1-5 in their division, and 4-1 against the NFC. They were 0-4 against the AFCN.

The only games they won were against Daniel Jones, Trevor Lawrence, Zach Wilson, Taylor Heinicke, Dak Prescott, Justin Herbert, and Jared Goff.

Within their division, they were outscored by 37 total points. Against the NFC (the NFCE + DET) they dominated to the tune of +46 points.

Their defense is for real... it was Top 10... #8 in yards allowed and #3 in points allowed.

The key question is... how much better will Russ be than Teddy Bridgewater was? Certainly, he will be but by what measure?

I predict that Denver will go 10-7 this year and will be in the running for a WC berth, provided Russ and his young WR corps doesn't suffer season-ending injuries.

 

[BigMeach]

You know it's funny, I was just thinking about this sort of thing before seeing this thread.

Was watching an old Lions vs Greenbay game on youtube from 2011 (popped up randomly so started watching...) Anyway, it made me think that it's a shame Matt Stafford never had a good team around him in Detroit. Which then made me think about him going to the Rams and how the media is trying to compare that situation to what is going on with RW and Denver. To which I called BS.

That Rams team had been a really really good team for years, they made the superbowl just a few years ago with JARED GOFF. To compare them to the Denver Broncos team is laughable. Now, does that mean that this Denver Broncos team cannot win with RW? Or even win a Superbowl? No of course not. But to me it says that just adding RW doesn't instantly make you one of the best teams in the league like it did with Stafford joining an already top tier Rams team.

There is a possibility that the Broncos don't do much this year, absolutely. They are in a TOUGH division and conference. They also don't have that underdog mentality which to me is a very strong mind set. We shall see, I wish them the best.. but I want high picks baby.