So What Have We Learned?

chris98251

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 27, 2007
Messages
39,364
Reaction score
1,331
Location
Roy Wa.
I've said it before, but it's been a few years. So here we go again:

'Change' is not inherently good, nor is it inherently bad. 'Change' is just 'differentness'. However, it *can* be for the better or for the worse.

Let's not forget, we changed from Chuck Knox to Flores. From Holmgren to Mora. Now, from PC to ??? OTOH, we changed from Erickson to Holmgren, and from Mora to PC. I'd say we're 2 for 4 in these. Hopefully we go 3-5 with this latest change. But, "hope is not a plan".
You left out Patera.....
 

PNW25

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Messages
9,255
Reaction score
3,779
Now I don't know about that, I used to think your Colchuck/Asgard avatar pic made you one of the best, lol. But yes, Aros is pretty darn good.
I might bring that one back!
 

morgulon1

Well-known member
Joined
May 2, 2009
Messages
7,758
Reaction score
3,583
Location
Spokane, Wa
We learned that Pete's "winning model" did not evolve to keep up with rule changes on D, did not evolve to be able to stop Shanahan and McVay offenses, Pete had an itchy trigger finger on "shiny object' player acquisitions that crippled the salary cap and depleted the Seahawks draft capital ("ate our seed corn"), because Pete was delusional about how "close" the team was, and especially we learned that if you pay a limited QB as if he's elite, you can't get enough talent around him to overcome his limitations.

The best Pete will forever be the years with rookie-contract Russell, free agent signings Avril, Bennett, and rookie contract Sherman, Bobby, Kam, etc., basically everything right up to the moment of "The Pick" in SB 49. Love Pete, but, sadly, he didn't fully adjust and got a bit delusional at the end. And he never really did stop either of the Shanahan and McVay offensive juggernauts.
I gave your post a "like" but changed it to the very seldom used "love". This really sums up Mr Carroll's 14 or 15 seasons he was the VP of football operations.
it was not difficult to see the defense degrade , as the Legion aged , got traded, injured , cut he wasn't able to quite put the band back together.

But like many on .net , we all had hope .

After the Seahawks last game in Phoenix I told my wife that Pete Carroll looked just a bit different on the sideline . Just a different vibe . I don't have any evidence or a link .

My theory is that Joleen Allen gave PC JS an ultimatum of sorts. More than likely " playoffs or grab a box to put your things in" . Like Fade's theory about both of them trying to survive firing , Ms Allen accepted Mr Pete Carroll sacrificing himself to give Mr John Schneider a chance .
 

olyfan63

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 17, 2012
Messages
5,591
Reaction score
1,618
I gave your post a "like" but changed it to the very seldom used "love". This really sums up Mr Carroll's 14 or 15 seasons he was the VP of football operations.
it was not difficult to see the defense degrade , as the Legion aged , got traded, injured , cut he wasn't able to quite put the band back together.

But like many on .net , we all had hope .

After the Seahawks last game in Phoenix I told my wife that Pete Carroll looked just a bit different on the sideline . Just a different vibe . I don't have any evidence or a link .

My theory is that Joleen Allen gave PC JS an ultimatum of sorts. More than likely " playoffs or grab a box to put your things in" . Like Fade's theory about both of them trying to survive firing , Ms Allen accepted Mr Pete Carroll sacrificing himself to give Mr John Schneider a chance .
Appreciate the comments, and it was so much easier to see in retrospect than while we were going through it. I kept hoping against hope each season that the D would somehow rediscover their LOB form, I mean, how could it just evaporate, never to return? Surely "defensive genius" Pete would find a way to bring back the boom. Yeah. That didn't work out. Then somebody pointed out Pete's habit of in-season draft trades, and how it was about propping up Pete's record at the expense of selling the team's draft picks for questionable returns and had the effect of bloating the salary cap with veterans. Then I realized how short-sighted of Pete, even narcissistic, that was. Only in hindsight could I see how utterly terrible Pete had been as a GM.

I have guesses about the firing, but it seems so hard for outsiders to really guess. My guess is that Bert Kolde or someone in his circles commissioned a study of Carroll and Schneider and the team's performance and trajectory, possibly by an outside panel of consultants, and supplied the report to Jody. Of course, that was a super-easy job, the consultants just browsed the Seahawks.net board for a couple days (or was it 10 minutes?), noted the recurring themes, did some stealth polls on the site (I suspect Jerhawk as the mole who posted the surveys for them) then copy and pasted the recurring themes and survey results into their report. ;-)

Then Jody, Bert, and the panel met, decided Schneider's performance was more than acceptable given the last two very good drafts, and then brought Schneider in to discuss Pete with them. The panel had given a "below average" and "potentially move on" rating to Pete. John shared the best objective viewpoint and data he could, which largely validated the panel's conclusions. The decision was made to move on from Pete and begin the search for a new HC. Then Pete was called in, told that there was a recommendation to move on from him, and given the floor to advocate for himself and why giving him two more years would be in the team's best interest. Pete expounded on his usual lame Pollyanna blather, how close the team was, they just needed to get over the hump, one more year and you'll see the difference, etc. Then the panel asked Pete how he was going to beat Shanahan and McVay, Pete responded with the same formless delusionally optimistic blather, "a couple players away", etc. The panel all rolled their eyes at Pete's schtick, Jody read the body language, informed Pete of the decision to move on, and asked John to lead the search. John insisted that Pete be retained with the title "advisor" since they had to pay him anyway, may as well get some work out of him here and there.

A broken clock is right twice a day, so that's my broken clock guess.
 

Cyrus12

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 16, 2013
Messages
17,416
Reaction score
4,716
Location
North of the Wall
We learned that young offensively minded hc's are the future of this league and the blueprint to winning it all...
 

seahawks08

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2012
Messages
1,191
Reaction score
84
Appreciate the comments, and it was so much easier to see in retrospect than while we were going through it. I kept hoping against hope each season that the D would somehow rediscover their LOB form, I mean, how could it just evaporate, never to return? Surely "defensive genius" Pete would find a way to bring back the boom. Yeah. That didn't work out. Then somebody pointed out Pete's habit of in-season draft trades, and how it was about propping up Pete's record at the expense of selling the team's draft picks for questionable returns and had the effect of bloating the salary cap with veterans. Then I realized how short-sighted of Pete, even narcissistic, that was. Only in hindsight could I see how utterly terrible Pete had been as a GM.

I have guesses about the firing, but it seems so hard for outsiders to really guess. My guess is that Bert Kolde or someone in his circles commissioned a study of Carroll and Schneider and the team's performance and trajectory, possibly by an outside panel of consultants, and supplied the report to Jody. Of course, that was a super-easy job, the consultants just browsed the Seahawks.net board for a couple days (or was it 10 minutes?), noted the recurring themes, did some stealth polls on the site (I suspect Jerhawk as the mole who posted the surveys for them) then copy and pasted the recurring themes and survey results into their report. ;-)

Then Jody, Bert, and the panel met, decided Schneider's performance was more than acceptable given the last two very good drafts, and then brought Schneider in to discuss Pete with them. The panel had given a "below average" and "potentially move on" rating to Pete. John shared the best objective viewpoint and data he could, which largely validated the panel's conclusions. The decision was made to move on from Pete and begin the search for a new HC. Then Pete was called in, told that there was a recommendation to move on from him, and given the floor to advocate for himself and why giving him two more years would be in the team's best interest. Pete expounded on his usual lame Pollyanna blather, how close the team was, they just needed to get over the hump, one more year and you'll see the difference, etc. Then the panel asked Pete how he was going to beat Shanahan and McVay, Pete responded with the same formless delusionally optimistic blather, "a couple players away", etc. The panel all rolled their eyes at Pete's schtick, Jody read the body language, informed Pete of the decision to move on, and asked John to lead the search. John insisted that Pete be retained with the title "advisor" since they had to pay him anyway, may as well get some work out of him here and there.

A broken clock is right twice a day, so that's my broken clock guess.
Wow, have you ever considered writing a book? So well authored semi fictional imagination brought to life. Terming it fictional based on none of us were there involved in the conversation leading up to Pete asked to move on. Nicely done!
 

olyfan63

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 17, 2012
Messages
5,591
Reaction score
1,618
Wow, have you ever considered writing a book? So well authored semi fictional imagination brought to life. Terming it fictional based on none of us were there involved in the conversation leading up to Pete asked to move on. Nicely done!
There was probably a better thread for the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs of my post but I was too tired and lazy to go find it.

My point was that we have so little information about how things went down with Pete's firing that anyone can make up a story about it that sounds remotely plausible, even me. The first sign for a lot of us was when Pete's normal postseason presser was delayed by several days.

So we've learned that Jody Allen is taking a more active role than many assumed and in fact had an oversight mechanism in place to evaluate Pete Carroll's management of the Seahawks, and Jody is not afraid to act boldly if she feels her information warrants it.

Anyway, I'm excited about the new direction the team has taken, with Macdonald, Grubb, Frazier, et al, and excited about the potential for NOT getting swept like clockwork by the Rams and 49ers most years.
 

SNDavidson

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 29, 2009
Messages
2,683
Reaction score
610
Emelio Estevez rolls out to his ri.. he’s dead, thank God, it’s over.

Both Collegiate and Professional football* is no longer football. Pete might have been the last of the killer safety over the middle murderous style, ever. And, he’s the one that got this change ball in the NFL really rolling, because he beat the shit out of everyone, because he had figured out the game, he broke it.

That’s the world boys and girls. No one gets to be eternal, and it’s very obvious the other old coach that had Ron Grady is just a big fat cheater.

Pete is, was, always will be better than that guy. Too bad he didn’t get his second off of him and then maybe 3rd. But, we see what the league is, now, don’t we? And I’m more proud of where he has brought us, what we all got to witness and learn from him, his hard work. And where the organization is now, all said and done, we’re ready to go again because he’s built this culture.

He already won a long time ago.

I hope he gets to see this core squad get there and win it all. I hope JS uses this as fuel for the current players as well.
 
Top