YAC. Tired of taking heat over it.

[SoulfishHawk]

I've been wanting them to add to the screen game for years. Seems like they just flat out don't like to do it. Yet, teams have been gashing the Hawks for years using the screen against out defense.

 

[MyrtleHawk]

Yep. Sometimes I wonder if the Hawks would be able to stop anyone from running it over and over again if an opposing team decided to do so.

 

[bileever]

Tyler Lockett has proven his toughness by being a punt and kick returner in the early part of his career. But WR is the second-most injured position on offense after RB, and it makes no sense to invite contact when there aren't yards to be had. It's a very vulnerable position where you have strong safeties and linebackers running at you full speed after a catch.

At his age, I wouldn't be surprised if the coaches are telling him that he has to live to fight another day rather than try to get an extra yard or two. Lockett benefits us just by being on the field. If we lose him, even for a game or two, that's a big disadvantage for us. It's just smart football.

But yes, we need to scheme better to get our receivers in space where they have room to ramble after the catch. That's what Shanahan and McVay do best. And Andy Reid, too.

 

[scutterhawk]

Tyler Lockett has proven his toughness by being a punt and kick returner in the early part of his career. But WR is the second-most injured position on offense after RB, and it makes no sense to invite contact when there aren't yards to be had. It's a very vulnerable position where you have strong safeties and linebackers running at you full speed after a catch.

At his age, I wouldn't be surprised if the coaches are telling him that he has to live to fight another day rather than try to get an extra yard or two. Lockett benefits us just by being on the field. If we lose him, even for a game or two, that's a big disadvantage for us. It's just smart football.

But yes, we need to scheme better to get our receivers in space where they have room to ramble after the catch. That's what Shanahan and McVay do best. And Andy Reid, too.

I think K-Mac might be that guy, but with both Walker & Charbonet dinged up right now, I don't know that Pete would want to use him like that; Maybe later when K-9 get's back up to snuff, they can maybe throw McIntosh in there for a change of pace.
Lockett's Pass Catching acumen is one of his best abilities, but his 2nd best ability, is his avail-ability.

 

[Hawkmode]

I think K-Mac might be that guy, but with both Walker & Charbonet dinged up right now, I don't know that Pete would want to use him like that; Maybe later when K-9 get's back up to snuff, they can maybe throw McIntosh in there for a change of pace.
Lockett's Pass Catching acumen is one of his best abilities, but his 2nd best ability, is his avail-ability.

K-Mac has clutch hands so he could definitely play a role if Waldron wants to use a screen game to punish aggressive defenses (like opponents do to our aggressive defense). JSN's arrival also means guys like Dee Eskridge/Dareke Young (both flash athleticism in bunches) might carve out a role as hybrid WR/RB (not everyone can be like Deebo) on fly sweeps or even screens/quick hitches.

 

[Jerhawk]

Who was talking about you @CalgaryHawkFan2005 ?

 

[CalgaryFan05]

I hear ya and understand the point...but see it a bit differently. I think the WR position has a standard set of attributes (probably ~15-20) to evaluate on, with some of them being a higher priority or value and fall into tiers. Tier 1: Can Get Open (Seperation, Quickness, Awareness), Can Catch (Total Catches, Tough Catches, Total Drops), Total Yards, Game Awareness & Blocking.

For me, YAC falls into tier 2. Important, but if a player is good at all the tier 1 items, i'm not overly concerned on this. Everyone has strengths and weaknesses...YAC is not a TL strength. Clutch > YAC.

I think when you get down to semantics, and start choosing 'what part of the job isn't getting done' - and how acceptable that is - well I think we're splitting hairs.

I know that Tyler's job is: run routes. catch ball. run after catching ball. I've said as much before - and my problem is that he's only doing 2 of those things effectively.

remember 'always compete'? Well we've got a veteran who doesn't necessarily think he has to. "fight for every blade of grass". Isn't that what football is about?

 

[hoxrox]

Does YAC really matter? Or is YPC more important? Would you rather a 1 yard catch with 10 yards after catch or a 15 yard catch with 0?

YPC is good for intermediate and deep routes.

YAC is good for the short passing game, which is essential in order to be versatile on offense. It's another area of the field defenses have to account for. It's helpful to have a short passing game especially against teams with strong pass rush.

 

[CalgaryFan05]

Did anyone say YAC is a useless statistic? I didn't see it.

I'm not a lover of PFF, but this is a great read on the subject: https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-pff-da...the-catch-determined-factors-before-the-catch

It mentions Tyler by name. But . . . a lot of YAC-based judgments are kind of an oversimplification.

That's a nice article - but I think it ignores the cause of Tyler's problem.

Sure, there's mitigating factors and situations that would either enhance a person's YAC or decrease it - that I have no argument with.

My argument is, that in this case: Tyler has openly said that he's not interested in YAC. Said that his high school coach told him that was OK.

So, it's an admitted lack of effort, not a situation(s) out of his control.

 

[CalgaryFan05]

Let's look at it in a different way that Geno led the NFL in Deep Ball Passing...depending on starting field position if a pass has 40+ air yards your WR is already attracting tackle help from any deep posted safety...increasing the likelihood of either a contested catch or a quick tackle from close proximity from a trailing corner or an arriving deep safety.

The result then becomes a significant gain or even a touchdown. Catching a ball closer to the line of scrimmage as you break in your route (at the stem of the route) gives more opportunity for YAC if the WR eludes or breaks the tackle of the closest defender.

The QB can play a major role...has he looked away from his target before firing it in? Is the QB late in recognizing a WR breaking into space? Where is the pass dropping in for the called play?

Yes Tyler has recently seemed like a sliding QB on some plays...but is it something to quibble about for all the production he continues to yield? Tyler has been a clutch WR time and again and light builded WR especially ones who have suffered a major injury before are likely to avoid a solid hit after safely pulling the pass into their body.

Football is a dangerous sport.

If everyone wants to turn a blind eye to an increasingly entitled vet - and give him a pass for the season based on past performance - well - so be it.

I cringe when I hear others use the term - but I believe "Accepting Mediocrity" applies here.

I don't want anyone hurt - but this is the NFL - again, ya gotta TRY.

 

[CalgaryFan05]

Who was talking about you @CalgaryHawkFan2005 ?

?

 

[CalgaryFan05]

Seems like kind of a strawman argument, considering I don't know any analyst or forum member who's said YAC doesn't matter.

But comparing a gigantic X split end receiver like DK who's not going to have a lot of YAC yards unless he runs away from defenders after the catch and a smaller shifty slot or Z receiver like Lockett is apples and oranges IMO.

But rant away my friend!

Wasn't ranting - it was mostly comprehensible

I've seen several here, including in this thread that say that YAC doesn't matter.

No problem - You know what? I'll shut the hell up about it now.

I get it - I seem to be the outlier. But it was still worth mentioning 5 or 6 times

 

[hoxrox]

Preservation is more important for Tyler than getting a couple of extra yards after catch. There was a play last year where two 9er defenders were quickly closing in, ready to take his head off. I'm glad he was on the ground and safe, right before they could have.

Now if he's going down in a playoff situation with no one else close by, that might be different.

 

[Jerhawk]

?

In your original post you said you've been taking heat about it. Who has been giving you heat?

 

[Hawkmode]

That's a nice article - but I think it ignores the cause of Tyler's problem.

Sure, there's mitigating factors and situations that would either enhance a person's YAC or decrease it - that I have no argument with.

My argument is, that in this case: Tyler has openly said that he's not interested in YAC. Said that his high school coach told him that was OK.

So, it's an admitted lack of effort, not a situation(s) out of his control.

Your frustration is evident by your characterization of Tyler as not feeling the need to compete...a bit harsh by your own style of posts so I see you wanting more. His fellow receivers rave about him being a role model ...he plays a key role in making our offense hum and clutch catches means Geno can execute at a high level of confidence. Shane's play calling utilizes the strengths of his WR group so plays designed for Tyler may not feature many YAC opportunities...there's something to be said for a WR who consistently is "there when you need him"...I doubt he's coasting out there...defenders can only wish. Does his coach Sanjay Lal see YAC as an important 3rd necessity of WR skill? ...49ers rely on YAC and feature it...our offense seems to do ok without it. I understand your points I just have a different take.

 

[xray]

Just catch the catchable balls , maintain possession after the catch and hopefully make positive yards . That's all I ask . I care less about YAC stats .

 

[bileever]

If there are yards to be had, then by all means, take them. But I don't think that WRs should put themselves at risk by fighting for a meaningless half a yard. There's also the ball protection aspect to it. How many times have we seen DK put the ball on the ground by trying to muscle out an extra yard?

 

[Jville]

I've been wanting them to add to the screen game for years. Seems like they just flat out don't like to do it. Yet, teams have been gashing the Hawks for years using the screen against out defense.

That's all going to change as the new offense continues to grow. Practices have changed on both sides of the ball.

Good Times Ahead!

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Hope so. The way teams shred our Defense on screens, it's crazy enough actually work.........for OUR offense

 

[nanomoz]

Wasn't ranting - it was mostly comprehensible

I've seen several here, including in this thread that say that YAC doesn't matter.

No problem - You know what? I'll shut the hell up about it now.

I get it - I seem to be the outlier. But it was still worth mentioning 5 or 6 times

HA! I do get it. I do.

You're not an outlier. But Tyler is a special case. His listed weight is 182, but I bet it's closer to 170. He weighs about as much as your nugget sack, and I'd rather have him healthy and getting open than not available due to injury.

I think his production is worth it. His catch rate is consistently great, his TD rate is high, he's got more toe-tapping/incredible sideline grabs than I can count, and his first down percentage is right around 60% for his career (which seems solid for a little dude that doesn't fight for too many yards). D.K.'s is about 64%.

I think all of that is worth the frustration of that failed first down when he lied down last year against . . . the Cardinals, was it?