Wilson's First 3 Years Are Arguably the Best in NFL History

scutterhawk

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Willyeye":211lo7on said:
Just so you know, for me, it's not about propping up Wilson. I don't think Wilson needs propping up. Here's the thing: I'm new to this site...this is the quiet time of year for football...Wilson will hopefully be signing his extension soon...most of the stats I listed were ones I've been accumulating for awhile. I just thought that this would be a good post for me to get my feet wet.

I don't think that Wilson is the best QB in the NFL...nor one of the best...nor is he elite. As a passer, I consider Wilson top 15. I think he has a ways to go to become an elite passer, but that he is capable of getting there (especially if a lot of the older QB's start retiring in the next few years). But I am impressed with Wilson's stats in his first three years. I just wanted to share them with everyone on this site. But honestly, these stats only show that Wilson has had a good start in his career. It's too early to think they are an absolute indication of what Wilson will become.
Wilsons accomplishments are outstanding, and I DO consider him to be "Elite", ESPECIALLY when you consider how inconsistent his Receiving corps has been, how many drives that he's kept alive with his athleticism and ability to take hits because of a shitty Pass pro O-Line, get up and kill some of those Defenses on the very next play for their troubles.
Two Super Bowls in his first three Years.
I got my Seahawks colored glasses on so I'm not ready to let some around here dissuade my believing that he's not in the top FIVE category,
 

theincrediblesok

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Pandion Haliaetus":1h297sdv said:
3 things.

1. Some of you posters act like entitled snobs. I get criticize the argument but those of who ridicule another poster for thier passion and dedication to thier work... And then question the validation of the poster... What is up with that?

So ungrateful... This place is slowly becoming webzone everyday.

2. This reminds of my "Russell Wilson isn't elite but has elite potential" post in the 2014 pre-season where I got utterly trashed on. I'm glad to see the argument still survives as I got a lot of unwarranted attacks thrown my way for an opinion based on facts. A lot of people thought of Wilson as a top 3-5 QB. But I argued that while he has shown that potential, he still had much to improve on, and just didn't have the consistency or stature of top level QBs just yet. And I'm unsure if Wilson progressed to that level in 2014 but if anything he's an elite winner, never willing to lose even at his worst.

3. Two Words: Jimmy Graham

Like Harvin, Seahawks invested plenty in acquiring him and thus paying for his services.

Unlike Harvin, I think Graham can be tailored into the offense and one won't have to be created for his ability.

And also unlike Harvin, Graham's strengths in size and ability fit well into the Seahawks weaknesses and specifically giving Russ an elite target that mesh well with his own ability. Thus strengthening Wilson's own weakness which has been passing over the middle and consistency in the short yardage passing game.

I think with Graham in the mix and the Seahawks possibly pursuing a viable deep threat speed demon your going to see the Seahawks pass more. With most of those extra opportunities coming from moving the chains and prolonging drives which equal more plays.

So I think this season you can see a passing attempt projection of 450-500 passes. Roughly 28-32 attempts per game.

And most of that reason I believe Wilson will also see an increase in attempts especially now that he has the perfect #1 receiver capable of being a safety blanket is That the team will complete his evaluation as a franchise QB and it will be the most important aspect as the team transitions on from Lynch and the offense becomes more built around Wilson. They will truly understand what he can and cannot do.

See this I can agree with
 

theincrediblesok

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scutterhawk":3kg5ee8x said:
Anthony!":3kg5ee8x said:
Lynch's best years running and receiving have ben since Wilson came.

Yep^ otherwise, why didn't they just stay with T-Jack?...Maybe the Defenses pretty much knew that all they really had to do, is to key on is Lynch, because they knew that Jackson wasn't any kind of threat, because unlike Wilson, he wasn't any kind of threat at keeping drives alive with his scrambling.
And too, Wilson is more a threat than Lynch is with the ball in his hands, because even though he may not be able to pound the ball like Marshawn, he can pass the ball, buy time with his scrambles so his Receivers to get open, as well as run it himself for hefty yardage like he's been doing in the last three Years.
I'm not taking anything away from Lynch, but Wilson's athleticism is a plus for the running game.
And now we have Graham?....Wilson, Lynch and ALL the other ball handlers should reap big benefits for it.

I've been thinking about this too, Defenses are always zeroing in on Lynch when TJ was playing and guess who was constantly helping TJ out on the receiving end, yup Baldwin.

I think it's happening to Wilson as well, most defenses are zeroing in on Lynch most of the time, you can see that on almost every play the defense pushes the O-line without a care what our receivers are doing. This put a lot of stress on our o-line when they have to take out 7 man fronts even on passing plays. With Jimmy Graham added they won't be able to consistently do that, Baldwin will probably hit 1k yards this season.
 

JSeahawks

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Hasselbeck":3rinwjb9 said:
Sigh..

How many of these threads do we need?

He's a great player.. why are Seahawk fans so insistent on trying to validate this to their own fan base over and over and over and over.

We get it, you hate Wilson.
 

Sac

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We're Seahawks fans and require constant validation of our fandom after so many years of being mediocre.
 

Laloosh

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SacHawk2.0":bmt0c1zr said:
We're Seahawks fans and require constant validation of our fandom after so many years of being mediocre.
Sort of wordy for a sac post isn't it? Thought we agreed you'd try to keep it to less than 10 words per post. That's 17.
 

SoulfishHawk

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Clearly some people have decided they won't like Wilson regardless :roll:
And for the record, he's MUCH better than Hass ever was. Liked Hass, but there's no comparison between the two.
 

BlueTalon

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I was quite impressed with the OP. The thread title was very descriptive and let me know exactly what the thread was going to be about. So many thread titles here could literally be about anything, like "Do you think..." or "What if..."

Then, he put quite a lot of work into developing and proving his thesis. As he later explained, that list of stats and facts is the result of years of arguing with boneheads on NFL.com, so it's not something he put together just for the sake of the thread. Nevertheless, it is impressive.

Much of what followed in the thread reads like arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin (47). I'm not trying to put anyone's contribution in this thread down, as there were some very good posts in it. It just seems like much of it is caught up in arguing about minutia.

Does Lynch help Wilson? Yes. And it's FEAKING AWESOME!
Does Wilson help Lynch? Yes. And it's FEAKING AWESOME!
Is Wilson a game manager? Yes. And it's FREAKING AWESOME! (Snicker)
Does Wilson ride the Defense? Yep. And it's FREAKING AWESOME!
Is Wilson a system QB? Sure. And it's FREAKING AWESOME!


Thus endeth my post.
 

Keyhawk

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Great post. Never get tired of reading about Wilson's accomplishments.
 

Scottemojo

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BlueTalon":2dioqumq said:
I was quite impressed with the OP. The thread title was very descriptive and let me know exactly what the thread was going to be about. So many thread titles here could literally be about anything, like "Do you think..." or "What if..."

Then, he put quite a lot of work into developing and proving his thesis. As he later explained, that list of stats and facts is the result of years of arguing with boneheads on NFL.com, so it's not something he put together just for the sake of the thread. Nevertheless, it is impressive.

Much of what followed in the thread reads like arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin (47). I'm not trying to put anyone's contribution in this thread down, as there were some very good posts in it. It just seems like much of it is caught up in arguing about minutia.

Does Lynch help Wilson? Yes. And it's FEAKING AWESOME!
Does Wilson help Lynch? Yes. And it's FEAKING AWESOME!
Is Wilson a game manager? Yes. And it's FREAKING AWESOME! (Snicker)
Does Wilson ride the Defense? Yep. And it's FREAKING AWESOME!
Is Wilson a system QB? Sure. And it's FREAKING AWESOME!


Thus endeth my post.

Respect.
 

MizzouHawkGal

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SoulfishHawk":2a1bbtta said:
Clearly some people have decided they won't like Wilson regardless :roll:
And for the record, he's MUCH better than Hass ever was. Liked Hass, but there's no comparison between the two.
Agreed, but I'm thinking Blue Talon nailed it dead. More dead then a week old fish. I mean seriously he speaks truth and has the best avatar ever.
 

kearly

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Laloosh":1gc09shu said:
Hey kearly, wondering where you got the 5.0 figure for Lynch during that span. I'm seeing 4.29.

http://pfref.com/tiny/yucQC

I know you don't rely on stats to come to your conclusions, I'm literally just trying to find out if I'm looking at inaccurate data.

Nah, I was just being lazy and going off memory. I remembered reading 5.0 YPC a long time ago, but that must have been wrong. It is kind of shocking that his YPC was only 4.29. He had over 100 yards a game during the second half of 2011.
 

kearly

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Spin Doctor":36hdpc4p said:
I think if you took away Wilson's mobility, he would be a mediocre QB. He's got some elite attributes as a passer but he severely lacks in several fundamental areas. First thing I notice about Wilson is that he doesn't change the play at the LOS very often. Not a lot of audibles going on -- though to his credit he was making the line calls for a portion of the season. Still, I would like him identify what defenses are doing to him, and change the plays accordingly. Brees, Manning, Brady, and most of the elite QB' s have this ability, Wilson does not, and when he has I have been underwhelmed.

His accuracy and timing on certain routes is suspect, especially on short routes which are very important in today's modern passing game. He's not very good at timing on intermediate and short routes and he seems to avoid the middle of the field. His deep passing game is among the best in the NFL, if not THE best.

Wilson is terrible at managing the pocket. I've seen him sack himself far too many times for my liking, and he all too often does not step up in the pocket. I feel like he also bails too soon, too often.

He's a good QB, I would place him near the bottom of the top 10, but despite this he REALLY needs to develop those areas of the passing.

It's not that I disagree, but there are a lot of QBs who would be mediocre if you took away their best feature.

Wilson might as well play a different position than Brady or Manning. The way he plays the game is significantly different, and yet his YPA, TD/INT, and points per drive numbers are comparable.

Wilson achieves elite results, he just does it in kind of an improvised, unstructured way. Sure, that leads to ugly mistakes, but it also creates big plays prototypical QBs cannot make. You add it all together and the production per play ends up being pretty close.

There are other intangible factors too, like Wilson's mental toughness. When was the last time a prototypical QB got through his first 3 NFL seasons without losing a single game by double digits? Even when Wilson has a miserable game, he has a knack for snapping out of it by the 4th quarter.

Wilson may not be as good as Brady or Manning at playing THEIR game, but that's okay because Wilson plays his own game instead, and his results, though somewhat unconventional, are equally as effective at moving the ball and scoring points (per play).

And here's the thing, who says Wilson can't be a Drew Brees type QB some day? Up until now, his weapons and system have been holding him back from a development standpoint. I feel pretty confident that by the time he is entering his 30s, he will have adapted to fit a more prototypical offense by that time, because it will be the best way to prolong his career.
 

Anthony!

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kearly":184j8q50 said:
Spin Doctor":184j8q50 said:
I think if you took away Wilson's mobility, he would be a mediocre QB. He's got some elite attributes as a passer but he severely lacks in several fundamental areas. First thing I notice about Wilson is that he doesn't change the play at the LOS very often. Not a lot of audibles going on -- though to his credit he was making the line calls for a portion of the season. Still, I would like him identify what defenses are doing to him, and change the plays accordingly. Brees, Manning, Brady, and most of the elite QB' s have this ability, Wilson does not, and when he has I have been underwhelmed.

His accuracy and timing on certain routes is suspect, especially on short routes which are very important in today's modern passing game. He's not very good at timing on intermediate and short routes and he seems to avoid the middle of the field. His deep passing game is among the best in the NFL, if not THE best.

Wilson is terrible at managing the pocket. I've seen him sack himself far too many times for my liking, and he all too often does not step up in the pocket. I feel like he also bails too soon, too often.

He's a good QB, I would place him near the bottom of the top 10, but despite this he REALLY needs to develop those areas of the passing.

It's not that I disagree, but there are a lot of QBs who would be mediocre if you took away their best feature.

Wilson might as well play a different position than Brady or Manning. The way he plays the game is significantly different, and yet his YPA, TD/INT, and points per drive numbers are comparable.

Wilson achieves elite results, he just does it in kind of an improvised, unstructured way. Sure, that leads to ugly mistakes, but it also creates big plays prototypical QBs cannot make. You add it all together and the production per play ends up being pretty close.

There are other intangible factors too, like Wilson's mental toughness. When was the last time a prototypical QB got through his first 3 NFL seasons without losing a single game by double digits? Even when Wilson has a miserable game, he has a knack for snapping out of it by the 4th quarter.

Wilson may not be as good as Brady or Manning at playing THEIR game, but that's okay because Wilson plays his own game instead, and his results, though somewhat unconventional, are equally as effective at moving the ball and scoring points (per play).

And here's the thing, who says Wilson can't be a Drew Brees type QB some day? Up until now, his weapons and system have been holding him back from a development standpoint. I feel pretty confident that by the time he is entering his 30s, he will have adapted to fit a more prototypical offense by that time, because it will be the best way to prolong his career.

well thanks for quoting spin, so I can read it, and now I am more glad I foed him, again he adds nothing, States He has seen Wilson sack himself to many times, without adding the numerous times he did not get sacked when Brady or Manning would have been. Of course then there is the changing the play at the line, which is ridiculous since you do not even know if he has been given the ability to do that. Then there is the avoiding the middle of the field even though PC has said they do not like throwing to the middle due to the extra danger it entails, he wants to blame it on Wilson. I have no problem saying he has stuff to work on, every player in the NFL has something to work one even Brady, Manning and Rodgers. But the stuff he comes up with is downright laughable. I mean whats next Wilson is not good because he cannot throw a 80 yard pass, with his left hand blindfolded. :lol:
 

RichNhansom

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Good breakdown Kearly and that's my opinion also.

The league standard has been the immobile pocket passer and even though teams are constantly looking for a FranTarkington type skill set, no-one seems to know how to evaluate the value of his mobility and ability to improvise but ignore how he gets there and the results are as elite as any QB you want to compare him to.

What if Wilson's style was the norm? How much bashing would Manning and Brady get for their immobility?

Something that seems to constantly get glossed over but is enormous is what receiving weapons Wilson has lacked compared to those he is getting compared to as well as the division and defenses Wilson has had to compete in.

Take away the superstar TE and receivers the elite have had and throw them into the NFC west and see how they compare them.
 

aawolf

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While those first 3 year stats are impressive, Wilson is ELITE for two simple reasons:

1. He protects the football;
2. He takes over the game when he needs to.

He's the best in the game IMO at these two simple things, with the numbers to back it up.

First, Wilson has an obscenely low INT percentage which carries over from his college days. Dude does not turn the ball over thus allowing us to stay in every game. The only active QBs better in INT% than Wilson (2.1%) are Aaron Rodgers (1.6%) and Tom Brady (2.2%). All-time, Wilson is fourth on the list, behind those two and Neil O'Donnell. The fact that he throws less means he has less interceptions than these others as well.

Second, I don't care how many more yards QBX has more than Wilson, if the team is down, and there is one shot to drive the ball down the field for a final score, there is no QB that is better than Wilson at finding a way to win. He pulls that acrobatic long sustained runs and deep passes when we need them most. He's the best playmaker in the league. Look no further than the NFC championship game driving down the field in the final seconds to seal the comeback and the Superbowl, where he led his team to the half-yard line with a chance to win it. Dude is as clutch as any in HISTORY.
 

Weadoption

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All I gotta say is, thank you for the river of Cheesehead tears, that was up there with Montana to Clark in my book in crushing the Cowboys dreams.
Lol at RW in amazement basically.
 

BlueTalon

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MizzouHawkGal":2dc1sk0t said:
SoulfishHawk":2dc1sk0t said:
Clearly some people have decided they won't like Wilson regardless :roll:
And for the record, he's MUCH better than Hass ever was. Liked Hass, but there's no comparison between the two.
Agreed, but I'm thinking Blue Talon nailed it dead. More dead then a week old fish. I mean seriously he speaks truth and has the best avatar ever.
My internet crush continues.
 

MizzouHawkGal

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BlueTalon":1wu9t5ay said:
MizzouHawkGal":1wu9t5ay said:
SoulfishHawk":1wu9t5ay said:
Clearly some people have decided they won't like Wilson regardless :roll:
And for the record, he's MUCH better than Hass ever was. Liked Hass, but there's no comparison between the two.
Agreed, but I'm thinking Blue Talon nailed it dead. More dead then a week old fish. I mean seriously he speaks truth and has the best avatar ever.
My internet crush continues.
Man, now I'm embarrassed. Look I try to call it as I see it but the fact is you nailed it like a frame carpenter with a nail gun....fast and multiple times.

And yes the ONLY avatar that is in your class on this site being used by an active member is FogHawk's.
 

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