Wilson's First 3 Years Are Arguably the Best in NFL History

[RiverDog]

Wilson has had the benefit of being in a very good situation for his first three years. I don't think admitting that takes any shine off his accomplishments. His clutch moments can't be taught, and there are times he looks like the best QB and athlete all in one, but he has had a great nest to grow in.

He won a job as a rookie, a job he began to win his first minicamp, when Pete started gushing about him. How many of the 32 teams would have slowed their roll on the rook and had him ride pine to learn just because? Probably at least 30 of them.

Like it or not, he benefits from Lynch, who genuinely scares defenses like few backs in history. Now, Lynch is not touching the ball every snap, Wilson makes plenty of plays that do not include Lynch, but what a good situation for a QB.

Wilson holds the ball and scrambles needlessly sometimes. It leads to both errors and spectacular big plays. Countless coaches would try to get him to eliminate the ad lib side of his game, but Pete encourages it at times. What a good situation for a QB.

Nice post. It was a sobering correction without taking away from the theme of the thread.

I'll also add that Russell has benefited enormously from what is unarguably the best defense in the league, perhaps the best in the past 10 or 15 years. That's a huge benefit for a quarterback and has to be factored into all those stats that were regurgitated in the OP.

 

[Willyeye]

For the first twenty minutes of two playoff games in a row, our elite Qb was as inept as any playoff Qb In the history of the nfl. Twice. He broke his own ineptness record. Elite? Yeah, sure bro. Go chart some more plays.

He's 3 years into his career and didn't get the luxury of sitting like some quarterbacks do. Young qb's make mistakes and have stretches in games where they struggle. It's unfair of you to bring up such a small sample size and act like it tells you anything meaningful.

Agreed on all counts! All you did we're make excuses for him not being "elite." I'll buy all of that. He's farther along than he is supposed to be. He's an awesome young quarterback. But to consider him among the best in the game is delusional. You don't have to watch much tape to figure that out.

Russell Wilson is not elite, but his STATS over his first three seasons ARE ELITE. Wilson is not elite, but look what he’s accomplished even though he’s playing in the NFCW, the division with the BEST OVERALL DEFENSES of any division. Wilson is not elite, but look at some of the passes he completes even though his WR’s at the end of last season were ALL UNDRAFTED. Wilson is not elite, and even though he has the most porous O-Line in the NFL on passing plays, his SCRAMBLING SKILLS are SECOND TO NONE, as is his ability to EXTEND PLAYS and make something out of nothing. Wilson is not elite; elite QB's aren't allowed to have the #1 defense in the NFL; of course, they never make any of his passes for him, and he has a knack for keeping them off the field for long periods of time; Russell makes the D better. Wilson is not elite, because he plays alongside Marshawn Lynch. I don’t recall Lynch completing any passes for Russell, and on the other hand, Wilson is the BEST #2 RB IN THE NFL, even though he’s not a RB. Wilson is not elite, but he’s ABLE TO MAKE BIG PLAYS at a level equal to QB’s like Peyton, Brady, Rodgers and Brees. Wilson is not elite, but he PROTECTS THE BALL at an ELITE LEVEL. Wilson is not elite; he may not win games all by himself, but he is a QB that gets the “W” or “L” next to his name just like all of the elite QB’s, and he has a knack for BRINGING THE TEAM BACK to WIN GAMES. Russell Wilson is not elite, although, even at his young age, he is one of the most cerebral QB’s in the league.

Russell Wilson is not elite, because too many fans are too quick to judge, without having sufficient knowledge to make such a judgment.

 

[RiverDog]

Russell Wilson is not elite, but his STATS over his first three seasons ARE ELITE. Wilson is not elite, but look what he’s accomplished even though he’s playing in the NFCW, the division with the BEST OVERALL DEFENSES of any division. Wilson is not elite, but look at some of the passes he completes even though his WR’s at the end of last season were ALL UNDRAFTED. Wilson is not elite, and even though he has the most porous O-Line in the NFL on passing plays, his SCRAMBLING SKILLS are SECOND TO NONE, as is his ability to EXTEND PLAYS and make something out of nothing. Wilson is not elite; elite QB's aren't allowed to have the #1 defense in the NFL; of course, they never make any of his passes for him, and he has a knack for keeping them off the field for long periods of time; Russell makes the D better. Wilson is not elite, because he plays alongside Marshawn Lynch. I don’t recall Lynch completing any passes for Russell, and on the other hand, Wilson is the BEST #2 RB IN THE NFL, even though he’s not a RB. Wilson is not elite, but he’s ABLE TO MAKE BIG PLAYS at a level equal to QB’s like Peyton, Brady, Rodgers and Brees. Wilson is not elite, but he PROTECTS THE BALL at an ELITE LEVEL. Wilson is not elite; he may not win games all by himself, but he is a QB that gets the “W” or “L” next to his name just like all of the elite QB’s, and he has a knack for BRINGING THE TEAM BACK to WIN GAMES. Russell Wilson is not elite, although, even at his young age, he is one of the most cerebral QB’s in the league.

Russell Wilson is not elite, because too many fans are too quick to judge, without having sufficient knowledge to make such a judgment.

You're cherry picking. You can't judge RW's stats just on a limited "first 3 years" basis as it disqualifies some pretty good quarterbacks, such as Aaron Rodgers, Phillip Rivers, and Tom Brady as those three guys didn't get the same opportunity as Russell did as they started out their careers by playing behind Pro Bowl quarterbacks (Favre, Brees, and Bledsoe respectively). The job was wide open when Russell applied as the previous year's starter didn't even take a snap in the preseason and was traded before the first regular season game.

Take a look at Russell's standing compared to the other 31 starting quarterbacks over the past 3 years and they aren't all that great. In 2014, he ranked 15th in the league in total passing yardage and 20th in TD passes. Even the efficiency stats like completion percentage and passer rating don't look all that hot. Russell ranked 20th in the league in completion percentage and 10th in passer rating.

Turning the page back to 2013, Russell ranked 7th in passer rating, 12th in completion percentage, 16th in total passing yards, tied for 9th in TD passes.

2012 shows Russell as being ranked 4th in passer rating, 8th in completion percentage, 23rd in total passing yards, and tied for 10th in TD passes.

Outside of the very limited first 3 years comparison, I don't see what's so impressive about his stats. They aren't all that eye popping. He's a very good quarterback for a lot of reasons, but you're not going to win many arguments by using statistical comparisons unless your opponent allows you to use such a limited scope as you are using in this thread.

 

[Anthony!]

Quarterbacks have bad halves all the time. But the great ones don't look anywhere near as lost as #3 can look when teams make him beat them with his head and arm.

Aaron Rodgers would like to have a word with you. He isn't elite I guess.

This was 4 months ago.

" Rodgers completed 17 of 42 passes for 185 yards with two interceptions for a passer rating of 34.3 during the Packers' 21-13 loss to the Bills at Ralph Wilson Stadium."

Once again all he does is use his opinion about how lost Wilson looked, given his obvious biased his opinion without fact to support it means nothing.

 

[Anthony!]

Wilson has had the benefit of being in a very good situation for his first three years. I don't think admitting that takes any shine off his accomplishments. His clutch moments can't be taught, and there are times he looks like the best QB and athlete all in one, but he has had a great nest to grow in.

He won a job as a rookie, a job he began to win his first minicamp, when Pete started gushing about him. How many of the 32 teams would have slowed their roll on the rook and had him ride pine to learn just because? Probably at least 30 of them.

Like it or not, he benefits from Lynch, who genuinely scares defenses like few backs in history. Now, Lynch is not touching the ball every snap, Wilson makes plenty of plays that do not include Lynch, but what a good situation for a QB.

Wilson holds the ball and scrambles needlessly sometimes. It leads to both errors and spectacular big plays. Countless coaches would try to get him to eliminate the ad lib side of his game, but Pete encourages it at times. What a good situation for a QB.

Nice post. It was a sobering correction without taking away from the theme of the thread.

I'll also add that Russell has benefited enormously from what is unarguably the best defense in the league, perhaps the best in the past 10 or 15 years. That's a huge benefit for a quarterback and has to be factored into all those stats that were regurgitated in the OP.

First off Lynch has benefitted from Wilson as much as Wilson from Lynch, IS it any wonder Lynchs best yeas as a runner and receiver have been with Wilson, Teams are scared to let Wilson get out side of the pocket, scared to let him scramble for 5+ seconds. But these fears help Lynch as does the tiring out out of the defense form when he dos it. As to the defense helping of course it does but again a Wilson led Offense helps the defense too, since Wilson arrived we have been top 10 in scoring, we hold the ball an avg of 32 minutes a game. Both help the defense a lot. So the whole its Lynch and the defense is true but it is also true the other way around. Then add in the lack of receiving talent and poor pass protection and again those facts the OP said say what they should say and that is just how good we have it with Wilson.

 

[Anthony!]

Russell Wilson is not elite, but his STATS over his first three seasons ARE ELITE. Wilson is not elite, but look what he’s accomplished even though he’s playing in the NFCW, the division with the BEST OVERALL DEFENSES of any division. Wilson is not elite, but look at some of the passes he completes even though his WR’s at the end of last season were ALL UNDRAFTED. Wilson is not elite, and even though he has the most porous O-Line in the NFL on passing plays, his SCRAMBLING SKILLS are SECOND TO NONE, as is his ability to EXTEND PLAYS and make something out of nothing. Wilson is not elite; elite QB's aren't allowed to have the #1 defense in the NFL; of course, they never make any of his passes for him, and he has a knack for keeping them off the field for long periods of time; Russell makes the D better. Wilson is not elite, because he plays alongside Marshawn Lynch. I don’t recall Lynch completing any passes for Russell, and on the other hand, Wilson is the BEST #2 RB IN THE NFL, even though he’s not a RB. Wilson is not elite, but he’s ABLE TO MAKE BIG PLAYS at a level equal to QB’s like Peyton, Brady, Rodgers and Brees. Wilson is not elite, but he PROTECTS THE BALL at an ELITE LEVEL. Wilson is not elite; he may not win games all by himself, but he is a QB that gets the “W” or “L” next to his name just like all of the elite QB’s, and he has a knack for BRINGING THE TEAM BACK to WIN GAMES. Russell Wilson is not elite, although, even at his young age, he is one of the most cerebral QB’s in the league.

Russell Wilson is not elite, because too many fans are too quick to judge, without having sufficient knowledge to make such a judgment.

You're cherry picking. You can't judge RW's stats just on a limited "first 3 years" basis as it disqualifies some pretty good quarterbacks, such as Aaron Rodgers, Phillip Rivers, and Tom Brady as those three guys didn't get the same opportunity as Russell did as they started out their careers by playing behind Pro Bowl quarterbacks (Favre, Brees, and Bledsoe respectively). The job was wide open when Russell applied as the previous year's starter didn't even take a snap in the preseason and was traded before the first regular season game.

Take a look at Russell's standing compared to the other 31 starting quarterbacks over the past 3 years and they aren't all that great. In 2014, he ranked 15th in the league in total passing yardage and 20th in TD passes. Even the efficiency stats like completion percentage and passer rating don't look all that hot. Russell ranked 20th in the league in completion percentage and 10th in passer rating.

Turning the page back to 2013, Russell ranked 7th in passer rating, 12th in completion percentage, 16th in total passing yards, tied for 9th in TD passes.

2012 shows Russell as being ranked 4th in passer rating, 8th in completion percentage, 23rd in total passing yards, and tied for 10th in TD passes.

Outside of the very limited first 3 years comparison, I don't see what's so impressive about his stats. They aren't all that eye popping. He's a very good quarterback for a lot of reasons, but you're not going to win many arguments by using statistical comparisons unless your opponent allows you to use such a limited scope as you are using in this thread.

ukeface: and yet the experts are doing that same exact thing. And unlike you they are not forgetting what he does with his feet. As to using the OP overwhelming facts and stats why not? There is a loot more of what he showed then what you showed. IF the idea is hey he did all of this and everything but he is not elite because of 2-3 things out of 100 then great there is no Elite player as all players have a few things they are not great at. For instance once a gain all of those stats you brought up are a by product of attempts. SO you are penalizing him for not throwing as much as others, but yet not penalizing them for not running as much as Wilson.
So lets try this, below are total yards, attempts, TDs, etc


RW 4341 yards 26 tds 7 TOs, 570 attempts, 7.8 YPP, 3.7 td/to ratio
Romo 3766 yards, 34 tds, 12 TOs, 461 attempts, 8 YPP, 2.8 td/to ratio
Luck 5034 yards, 42 tds, 23 TOs, 680 attempts, 7.3 YPP, 1.8 td/to ratio
Mann 4703 yards, 39 tds, 17 TOs, 621 attemtps,7.5 YPP, 2.4 td/to ratio
Brady 4166 yards, 33 tds, 11 TOs, 618 attempts, 6.778 YP, 3 td/to ratio
Rodgers 4650 yards, 40 tds, 8 TOs, 563 attempts, 8.1 YPP, 5 td/to Ratio

So lets see just amongst these 6 QBs all of whom are either Elite or had great years last year Wilson is

4th in yards, 6th in TDs, 1st in TOs, 2nd in YPA, 2nd in Td/to ration

That is only amongst those 6, add in others and it looks even better. SO I guess if Wilson is not Elite neither is Brady

Let me help more at 4341 total yard he would rank 10th, tds 12th, TOs #1, td/to ration 2nd

So basically with a very bad pass protecting oline, with suspect Wr corps, that ESPN ranked 24th, Wilson still ranked in the top 10 in 3 of the 4 categories, and just missed top 10 in the other. The only QB of the 6 who was top 10 in all 4 categories was Rodgers.

Oh and you forgot in 20914 8th in YPA, 10th in QB Rating. Seems funny how they got let out huh. 2 of the things that matter most

 

[RichNhansom]

Russell Wilson is not elite, but his STATS over his first three seasons ARE ELITE. Wilson is not elite, but look what he’s accomplished even though he’s playing in the NFCW, the division with the BEST OVERALL DEFENSES of any division. Wilson is not elite, but look at some of the passes he completes even though his WR’s at the end of last season were ALL UNDRAFTED. Wilson is not elite, and even though he has the most porous O-Line in the NFL on passing plays, his SCRAMBLING SKILLS are SECOND TO NONE, as is his ability to EXTEND PLAYS and make something out of nothing. Wilson is not elite; elite QB's aren't allowed to have the #1 defense in the NFL; of course, they never make any of his passes for him, and he has a knack for keeping them off the field for long periods of time; Russell makes the D better. Wilson is not elite, because he plays alongside Marshawn Lynch. I don’t recall Lynch completing any passes for Russell, and on the other hand, Wilson is the BEST #2 RB IN THE NFL, even though he’s not a RB. Wilson is not elite, but he’s ABLE TO MAKE BIG PLAYS at a level equal to QB’s like Peyton, Brady, Rodgers and Brees. Wilson is not elite, but he PROTECTS THE BALL at an ELITE LEVEL. Wilson is not elite; he may not win games all by himself, but he is a QB that gets the “W” or “L” next to his name just like all of the elite QB’s, and he has a knack for BRINGING THE TEAM BACK to WIN GAMES. Russell Wilson is not elite, although, even at his young age, he is one of the most cerebral QB’s in the league.

Russell Wilson is not elite, because too many fans are too quick to judge, without having sufficient knowledge to make such a judgment.

You're cherry picking. You can't judge RW's stats just on a limited "first 3 years" basis as it disqualifies some pretty good quarterbacks, such as Aaron Rodgers, Phillip Rivers, and Tom Brady as those three guys didn't get the same opportunity as Russell did as they started out their careers by playing behind Pro Bowl quarterbacks (Favre, Brees, and Bledsoe respectively). The job was wide open when Russell applied as the previous year's starter didn't even take a snap in the preseason and was traded before the first regular season game.

Take a look at Russell's standing compared to the other 31 starting quarterbacks over the past 3 years and they aren't all that great. In 2014, he ranked 15th in the league in total passing yardage and 20th in TD passes. Even the efficiency stats like completion percentage and passer rating don't look all that hot. Russell ranked 20th in the league in completion percentage and 10th in passer rating.

Turning the page back to 2013, Russell ranked 7th in passer rating, 12th in completion percentage, 16th in total passing yards, tied for 9th in TD passes.

2012 shows Russell as being ranked 4th in passer rating, 8th in completion percentage, 23rd in total passing yards, and tied for 10th in TD passes.

Outside of the very limited first 3 years comparison, I don't see what's so impressive about his stats. They aren't all that eye popping. He's a very good quarterback for a lot of reasons, but you're not going to win many arguments by using statistical comparisons unless your opponent allows you to use such a limited scope as you are using in this thread.

I love how you suggest someone is cherry picking and then cherry pick maybe worst than I have ever seen.

No one and I mean no one has claimed Wilson is an elite pocket passer. Everyone has pointed out his mobility and ability to improvise and you want to remove that from the formula to try and prove your point.

Please use the same stat breakdowns and compare the others mobility. It would actually make the rest of the league look pretty silly but it is a factor that our opponents have to account for and try to prevent. Wilson's numbers prove they haven't been able to.

 

[theincrediblesok]

Russell Wilson is not elite, but his STATS over his first three seasons ARE ELITE. Wilson is not elite, but look what he’s accomplished even though he’s playing in the NFCW, the division with the BEST OVERALL DEFENSES of any division. Wilson is not elite, but look at some of the passes he completes even though his WR’s at the end of last season were ALL UNDRAFTED. Wilson is not elite, and even though he has the most porous O-Line in the NFL on passing plays, his SCRAMBLING SKILLS are SECOND TO NONE, as is his ability to EXTEND PLAYS and make something out of nothing. Wilson is not elite; elite QB's aren't allowed to have the #1 defense in the NFL; of course, they never make any of his passes for him, and he has a knack for keeping them off the field for long periods of time; Russell makes the D better. Wilson is not elite, because he plays alongside Marshawn Lynch. I don’t recall Lynch completing any passes for Russell, and on the other hand, Wilson is the BEST #2 RB IN THE NFL, even though he’s not a RB. Wilson is not elite, but he’s ABLE TO MAKE BIG PLAYS at a level equal to QB’s like Peyton, Brady, Rodgers and Brees. Wilson is not elite, but he PROTECTS THE BALL at an ELITE LEVEL. Wilson is not elite; he may not win games all by himself, but he is a QB that gets the “W” or “L” next to his name just like all of the elite QB’s, and he has a knack for BRINGING THE TEAM BACK to WIN GAMES. Russell Wilson is not elite, although, even at his young age, he is one of the most cerebral QB’s in the league.

Russell Wilson is not elite, because too many fans are too quick to judge, without having sufficient knowledge to make such a judgment.

You're cherry picking. You can't judge RW's stats just on a limited "first 3 years" basis as it disqualifies some pretty good quarterbacks, such as Aaron Rodgers, Phillip Rivers, and Tom Brady as those three guys didn't get the same opportunity as Russell did as they started out their careers by playing behind Pro Bowl quarterbacks (Favre, Brees, and Bledsoe respectively). The job was wide open when Russell applied as the previous year's starter didn't even take a snap in the preseason and was traded before the first regular season game.

Take a look at Russell's standing compared to the other 31 starting quarterbacks over the past 3 years and they aren't all that great. In 2014, he ranked 15th in the league in total passing yardage and 20th in TD passes. Even the efficiency stats like completion percentage and passer rating don't look all that hot. Russell ranked 20th in the league in completion percentage and 10th in passer rating.

Turning the page back to 2013, Russell ranked 7th in passer rating, 12th in completion percentage, 16th in total passing yards, tied for 9th in TD passes.

2012 shows Russell as being ranked 4th in passer rating, 8th in completion percentage, 23rd in total passing yards, and tied for 10th in TD passes.

Outside of the very limited first 3 years comparison, I don't see what's so impressive about his stats. They aren't all that eye popping. He's a very good quarterback for a lot of reasons, but you're not going to win many arguments by using statistical comparisons unless your opponent allows you to use such a limited scope as you are using in this thread.

Those stats should tell you that in 2014 he didn't have much help and it shows. He also had alot of throwaways if your going to talk about his completion percentage. Also he had many INT in 2013 that would just bounce out of his receiver's hands and into the arm of a waiting defender.

Besides Doug Baldwin and Lynch and our team being a running team you should expect us to have a lower passing yards. We aren't going to go full passing all of a sudden, I mean how many passing yards do you really think a running team is suppose to get.

What those 3 QBs have that Russell never had was a pro bowl QB that he could watch and study with to further his learning. Imagine if Hasselbeck was helping Wilson out. Luck didn't have a Pro bowl QB to helped him out too in his rookie year until Hasselbeck was his backup in 2013 and then look at Luck's stat as of late.

Total Passing Yards isn't everything, look at Matt Stafford. He had more chances of attempt and he got Calvin Johnson and Golden Tate yet he only had 22 TD, he got more weapons and a really good Defense. He had 152 more attempts than Wilson have. Give Wilson those receivers and I bet ya with 600 attempts at passing he would do damage. This is why I'm glad we have Jimmy now but we still need a speedy guy once we get that, man watch out, it's going to be a fun season.

 

[RiverDog]

Those stats should tell you that in 2014 he didn't have much help and it shows. He also had alot of throwaways if your going to talk about his completion percentage. Also he had many INT in 2013 that would just bounce out of his receiver's hands and into the arm of a waiting defender.

Besides Doug Baldwin and Lynch and our team being a running team you should expect us to have a lower passing yards. We aren't going to go full passing all of a sudden, I mean how many passing yards do you really think a running team is suppose to get.

What those 3 QBs have that Russell never had was a pro bowl QB that he could watch and study with to further his learning. Imagine if Hasselbeck was helping Wilson out. Luck didn't have a Pro bowl QB to helped him out too in his rookie year until Hasselbeck was his backup in 2013 and then look at Luck's stat as of late.

Total Passing Yards isn't everything, look at Matt Stafford. He had more chances of attempt and he got Calvin Johnson and Golden Tate yet he only had 22 TD, he got more weapons and a really good Defense. He had 152 more attempts than Wilson have. Give Wilson those receivers and I bet ya with 600 attempts at passing he would do damage. This is why I'm glad we have Jimmy now but we still need a speedy guy once we get that, man watch out, it's going to be a fun season.

I agree with all of that analysis. And I agree with the previous comments about my intentionally ignoring Russell's rushing/scrambling stats. The 4 stats I used...passer rating, completion percentage, total passing yards, and touchdown passes...do not completely define a quarterback, especially one with Russell's unique skill set. So yea, I was cherry picking to a certain degree, although those 4 stats are the most commonly used to quantify quarterback performance and were not misrepresented.

But I was not trying to define Russell's total net worth vs. other quarterbacks. I was simply taking a counter argument to the proposition that Russell's first 3 years were the best in NFL history. The commonly accepted numbers for rating quarterback performance simply doesn't support that proposition, and as I showed, the "first 3 years" kicker is a bit deceptive as it eliminates a number of very good quarterbacks from consideration.

 

[Anthony!]

Those stats should tell you that in 2014 he didn't have much help and it shows. He also had alot of throwaways if your going to talk about his completion percentage. Also he had many INT in 2013 that would just bounce out of his receiver's hands and into the arm of a waiting defender.

Besides Doug Baldwin and Lynch and our team being a running team you should expect us to have a lower passing yards. We aren't going to go full passing all of a sudden, I mean how many passing yards do you really think a running team is suppose to get.

What those 3 QBs have that Russell never had was a pro bowl QB that he could watch and study with to further his learning. Imagine if Hasselbeck was helping Wilson out. Luck didn't have a Pro bowl QB to helped him out too in his rookie year until Hasselbeck was his backup in 2013 and then look at Luck's stat as of late.

Total Passing Yards isn't everything, look at Matt Stafford. He had more chances of attempt and he got Calvin Johnson and Golden Tate yet he only had 22 TD, he got more weapons and a really good Defense. He had 152 more attempts than Wilson have. Give Wilson those receivers and I bet ya with 600 attempts at passing he would do damage. This is why I'm glad we have Jimmy now but we still need a speedy guy once we get that, man watch out, it's going to be a fun season.

I agree with all of that analysis. And I agree with the previous comments about my intentionally ignoring Russell's rushing/scrambling stats. The 4 stats I used...passer rating, completion percentage, total passing yards, and touchdown passes...do not completely define a quarterback, especially one with Russell's unique skill set. So yea, I was cherry picking to a certain degree, although those 4 stats are the most commonly used to quantify quarterback performance and were not misrepresented.

But I was not trying to define Russell's total net worth vs. other quarterbacks. I was simply taking a counter argument to the proposition that Russell's first 3 years were the best in NFL history. The commonly accepted numbers for rating quarterback performance simply doesn't support that proposition, and as I showed, the "first 3 years" kicker is a bit deceptive as it eliminates a number of very good quarterbacks from consideration.

That's great but under the criteria set by the OP the statement is true, and if you want to create a thread saying WIlson whatever for first 3 playing years, thus including those how did not play their first 1-2 years fine. But the OP made his criteria clear and backed it up with stats and facts, Unless under those stats and facts and criteria you have enough support to counter it, changing the criteria does not do anything. I mean its like saying well I do not like Wilson so I need to find a way to make him not so good, but the only way is to change the criteria. Also the OP outlined a lot of facts and stats even if we go by the 4 things you picked it is no place near enough to over turn all of what he provided. FYI QB rating is a common number and he is the only QB to have a QB rating over 95 for his first 3 years.

 

[theincrediblesok]

Ok that I can agree to it's unfair to calculate the first three years when Rodgers, Brady, and Rivers had to sit behind Pro bowl QBs until they had a chance to play, but at the same time we can't discount that they got better because they were behind those QBs.

Yes Wilson came into a good situation but the situation was that the Seahawks needed a QB that can keep the chains moving. TJ couldn't do it, and Matt Flynn couldn't do it and you can see it when he was playing for the Raiders, but yet he could do it when he backed up for Rodgers again, that makes me wonder if they got a really good system there for WR or just really good WR that make any backup QB look good and a really good QB, elite.

 

[Tical21]

After watching the tape you will learn that kearse, Baldwin and bevell are all really good and Bevelll can get them open at will, and #3 just doesnt get it.

 

[Anthony!]

Ok that I can agree to it's unfair to calculate the first three years when Rodgers, Brady, and Rivers had to sit behind Pro bowl QBs until they had a chance to play, but at the same time we can't discount that they got better because they were behind those QBs.

Yes Wilson came into a good situation but the situation was that the Seahawks needed a QB that can keep the chains moving. TJ couldn't do it, and Matt Flynn couldn't do it and you can see it when he was playing for the Raiders, but yet he could do it when he backed up for Rodgers again, that makes me wonder if they got a really good system there for WR or just really good WR that make any backup QB look good and a really good QB, elite.

Great points but you need to understand some only want to be able to bring up things that back their point about Wilson not being Elite. Even if all they have is a couple of skewed things compared to the overwhelming evidence supporting Wilson being elite.

 

[RiverDog]

Ok that I can agree to it's unfair to calculate the first three years when Rodgers, Brady, and Rivers had to sit behind Pro bowl QBs until they had a chance to play, but at the same time we can't discount that they got better because they were behind those QBs.

Yes Wilson came into a good situation but the situation was that the Seahawks needed a QB that can keep the chains moving. TJ couldn't do it, and Matt Flynn couldn't do it and you can see it when he was playing for the Raiders, but yet he could do it when he backed up for Rodgers again, that makes me wonder if they got a really good system there for WR or just really good WR that make any backup QB look good and a really good QB, elite.

One of the things about Russell is that he was pro ready, in part because his mechanics were already present and in part because his incredible work ethic and study habits allowed him to progress much faster than most rookie quarterbacks. It was a very shallow learning curve. I'm not sure if sitting behind an All Pro for a year or two would have benefited him that much in the way it may have benefited the aforementioned three. Russell was ready out of the box with no assembly required and batteries included.

 

[theincrediblesok]

Ok that I can agree to it's unfair to calculate the first three years when Rodgers, Brady, and Rivers had to sit behind Pro bowl QBs until they had a chance to play, but at the same time we can't discount that they got better because they were behind those QBs.

Yes Wilson came into a good situation but the situation was that the Seahawks needed a QB that can keep the chains moving. TJ couldn't do it, and Matt Flynn couldn't do it and you can see it when he was playing for the Raiders, but yet he could do it when he backed up for Rodgers again, that makes me wonder if they got a really good system there for WR or just really good WR that make any backup QB look good and a really good QB, elite.

One of the things about Russell is that he was pro ready, in part because his mechanics were already present and in part because his incredible work ethic and study habits allowed him to progress much faster than most rookie quarterbacks. It was a very shallow learning curve. I'm not sure if sitting behind an All Pro for a year or two would have benefited him that much in the way it may have benefited the aforementioned three. Russell was ready out of the box with no assembly required and batteries included.

If Wilson keeps up with studying and becoming a complete QB that is able to call his own plays, shoot by year 5 is when we might start to see him early in his Prime.

I remember when Aaron Rodgers was starting to come into his own and by year 2 or 3 is when the NFL started taking notice and asking the question is Aaron Rodgers elite, it was a big debate at the time, but as we see now that it's not really debatable anymore.

 

[Bigbadhawk]

Wilson has had the benefit of being in a very good situation for his first three years. I don't think admitting that takes any shine off his accomplishments. His clutch moments can't be taught, and there are times he looks like the best QB and athlete all in one, but he has had a great nest to grow in.

He won a job as a rookie, a job he began to win his first minicamp, when Pete started gushing about him. How many of the 32 teams would have slowed their roll on the rook and had him ride pine to learn just because? Probably at least 30 of them.

Like it or not, he benefits from Lynch, who genuinely scares defenses like few backs in history. Now, Lynch is not touching the ball every snap, Wilson makes plenty of plays that do not include Lynch, but what a good situation for a QB.

Wilson holds the ball and scrambles needlessly sometimes. It leads to both errors and spectacular big plays. Countless coaches would try to get him to eliminate the ad lib side of his game, but Pete encourages it at times. What a good situation for a QB.

Nice post. It was a sobering correction without taking away from the theme of the thread.

I'll also add that Russell has benefited enormously from what is unarguably the best defense in the league, perhaps the best in the past 10 or 15 years. That's a huge benefit for a quarterback and has to be factored into all those stats that were regurgitated in the OP.

First off Lynch has benefitted from Wilson as much as Wilson from Lynch, IS it any wonder Lynchs best yeas as a runner and receiver have been with Wilson, Teams are scared to let Wilson get out side of the pocket, scared to let him scramble for 5+ seconds. But these fears help Lynch as does the tiring out out of the defense form when he dos it. As to the defense helping of course it does but again a Wilson led Offense helps the defense too, since Wilson arrived we have been top 10 in scoring, we hold the ball an avg of 32 minutes a game. Both help the defense a lot. So the whole its Lynch and the defense is true but it is also true the other way around. Then add in the lack of receiving talent and poor pass protection and again those facts the OP said say what they should say and that is just how good we have it with Wilson.

In regards to Lynch I am sure that may be a part of it but I see a total lack of credit to the hiring of Cable in 2011 and him helping transform the offensive line into one of the leagues top run blocking units starting with the 2012 oline. It was noted back in 2011/2012 that it took Lynch a bit to adjust and buy into Cables system so its no surprise that Lynch was fairly solid out of the gate for the 2012 season even before we started slowly adding the read option plays 6 or so weeks into the season.

 

[Anthony!]

Wilson has had the benefit of being in a very good situation for his first three years. I don't think admitting that takes any shine off his accomplishments. His clutch moments can't be taught, and there are times he looks like the best QB and athlete all in one, but he has had a great nest to grow in.

He won a job as a rookie, a job he began to win his first minicamp, when Pete started gushing about him. How many of the 32 teams would have slowed their roll on the rook and had him ride pine to learn just because? Probably at least 30 of them.

Like it or not, he benefits from Lynch, who genuinely scares defenses like few backs in history. Now, Lynch is not touching the ball every snap, Wilson makes plenty of plays that do not include Lynch, but what a good situation for a QB.

Wilson holds the ball and scrambles needlessly sometimes. It leads to both errors and spectacular big plays. Countless coaches would try to get him to eliminate the ad lib side of his game, but Pete encourages it at times. What a good situation for a QB.

Nice post. It was a sobering correction without taking away from the theme of the thread.

I'll also add that Russell has benefited enormously from what is unarguably the best defense in the league, perhaps the best in the past 10 or 15 years. That's a huge benefit for a quarterback and has to be factored into all those stats that were regurgitated in the OP.

First off Lynch has benefitted from Wilson as much as Wilson from Lynch, IS it any wonder Lynchs best yeas as a runner and receiver have been with Wilson, Teams are scared to let Wilson get out side of the pocket, scared to let him scramble for 5+ seconds. But these fears help Lynch as does the tiring out out of the defense form when he dos it. As to the defense helping of course it does but again a Wilson led Offense helps the defense too, since Wilson arrived we have been top 10 in scoring, we hold the ball an avg of 32 minutes a game. Both help the defense a lot. So the whole its Lynch and the defense is true but it is also true the other way around. Then add in the lack of receiving talent and poor pass protection and again those facts the OP said say what they should say and that is just how good we have it with Wilson.

In regards to Lynch I am sure that may be a part of it but I see a total lack of credit to the hiring of Cable in 2011 and him helping transform the offensive line into one of the leagues top run blocking units starting with the 2012 oline. It was noted back in 2011/2012 that it took Lynch a bit to adjust and buy into Cables system so its no surprise that Lynch was fairly solid out of the gate for the 2012 season even before we started slowly adding the read option plays 6 or so weeks into the season.

Not sure what you mean he was great out of the gate in 2012
In his first 6 game he only went over 100 yards 2 times and over 4 ypc 2 times. Game 7 was about when we showed some read option and from that point forward he went over 100 yards 8 times and over 4 ypc 9 times. Add to that at that point ever4yone knew Wilson could scramble and do it well so that helped as well.

 

[Bigbadhawk]

Not sure what you mean he was great out of the gate in 2012
In his first 6 game he only went over 100 yards 2 times and over 4 ypc 2 times. Game 7 was about when we showed some read option and from that point forward he went over 100 yards 8 times and over 4 ypc 9 times. Add to that at that point ever4yone knew Wilson could scramble and do it well so that helped as well.

Using the stats of the first 6 games as you did Lynch had 128 carries for 549 yards (91.5 yds a game) which is a 4.29 average. If you want to say for the sake of this that week 7 the read option was fully implimented (though week 9 vs Minn is when it really all came together with Russell using his legs) then for the rest of the season he averaged 104.1 yards a game (12.6 yards per game increase)

 

[Bigbadhawk]

All I was trying to point out is the oline and Cable deserve a good chunk of credit to for Lynch's success starting in 2012, not just Wilson and the RO that really wasn't fully implemented until half way into the season.

 

[Willyeye]

Russell Wilson is not elite, but his STATS over his first three seasons ARE ELITE. Wilson is not elite, but look what he’s accomplished even though he’s playing in the NFCW, the division with the BEST OVERALL DEFENSES of any division. Wilson is not elite, but look at some of the passes he completes even though his WR’s at the end of last season were ALL UNDRAFTED. Wilson is not elite, and even though he has the most porous O-Line in the NFL on passing plays, his SCRAMBLING SKILLS are SECOND TO NONE, as is his ability to EXTEND PLAYS and make something out of nothing. Wilson is not elite; elite QB's aren't allowed to have the #1 defense in the NFL; of course, they never make any of his passes for him, and he has a knack for keeping them off the field for long periods of time; Russell makes the D better. Wilson is not elite, because he plays alongside Marshawn Lynch. I don’t recall Lynch completing any passes for Russell, and on the other hand, Wilson is the BEST #2 RB IN THE NFL, even though he’s not a RB. Wilson is not elite, but he’s ABLE TO MAKE BIG PLAYS at a level equal to QB’s like Peyton, Brady, Rodgers and Brees. Wilson is not elite, but he PROTECTS THE BALL at an ELITE LEVEL. Wilson is not elite; he may not win games all by himself, but he is a QB that gets the “W” or “L” next to his name just like all of the elite QB’s, and he has a knack for BRINGING THE TEAM BACK to WIN GAMES. Russell Wilson is not elite, although, even at his young age, he is one of the most cerebral QB’s in the league.

Russell Wilson is not elite, because too many fans are too quick to judge, without having sufficient knowledge to make such a judgment.

You're cherry picking. You can't judge RW's stats just on a limited "first 3 years" basis as it disqualifies some pretty good quarterbacks, such as Aaron Rodgers, Phillip Rivers, and Tom Brady as those three guys didn't get the same opportunity as Russell did as they started out their careers by playing behind Pro Bowl quarterbacks (Favre, Brees, and Bledsoe respectively). The job was wide open when Russell applied as the previous year's starter didn't even take a snap in the preseason and was traded before the first regular season game.

Take a look at Russell's standing compared to the other 31 starting quarterbacks over the past 3 years and they aren't all that great. In 2014, he ranked 15th in the league in total passing yardage and 20th in TD passes. Even the efficiency stats like completion percentage and passer rating don't look all that hot. Russell ranked 20th in the league in completion percentage and 10th in passer rating.

Turning the page back to 2013, Russell ranked 7th in passer rating, 12th in completion percentage, 16th in total passing yards, tied for 9th in TD passes.

2012 shows Russell as being ranked 4th in passer rating, 8th in completion percentage, 23rd in total passing yards, and tied for 10th in TD passes.

Outside of the very limited first 3 years comparison, I don't see what's so impressive about his stats. They aren't all that eye popping. He's a very good quarterback for a lot of reasons, but you're not going to win many arguments by using statistical comparisons unless your opponent allows you to use such a limited scope as you are using in this thread.

Of course I'm cherry picking. And it sounds like your cherry picking the stats as if all of them are "first three year" stats. A lot of them aren't...a number of them are career stats, or individual accomplishments. And I don't yet expect Wilson to be #1 in all the stats you quoted...he's competing with QB's who've been playing for 10 or 15 years. Why would a 3-year QB be judged by comparisons to established, veteran QB's who are already elite? I don't even think Wilson is close to being elite anyway. I think he has gotten off to a good solid start, and maybe someday he will be elite.

And I don't care about other QB's who weren't able to beat their predecessors out of a job. I don't even feel bad for those other QB's who didn't do much in their first 3years. They are having great careers regardless. It's not like I'm making comparisons to every QB in history...it's not about comparisons...this thread is about Wilson's accomplishments thus far in his career, which happens to be 3 years. I didn't put together the Wilson list with the intention of making lists for all the other QB's and making comparisons.

No QB is perfect...they all have flaws and weaknesses...even elite QB's have bad games occasionally. There are a lot of people who think Luck is already elite, because he doesn't have a run game and he passed for 4800 yards last year. I don't care if people like Luck...I like him too. If he stays on pace, he will be a HoF'er. But he's not perfect either...he has flaws, and he's had some horrible playoff games. It doesn't make him a bad QB. But I'm not a Colt's fan...I'm a Hawk's fan. So I make lists about Wilson.

The reason I make lists is because too many people act as if Dilfer>Tebow>Wilson. My list proves ridiculous people to be mistaken. And the main reason I made this list in particular, is because this is the slowest month in football, and I have a hard time waiting for the draft. And most opponents allow me to use a limited scope because the list is overwhelming to most people...even you failed to see that there were accomplishments that weren't based only on Wilson's first 3 years. BTW, to people that see the potential for Wilson to be elite someday, the list is pretty eye-popping.