Which loss is more damaging to a team?

[HawkGA]

First thing first but not actually important, you like many seem to have missed the point of the OP's question. It's not a matter of which loss was worse, it is about the damage that was done in a "moving forward" kind of way.

Thank you for the clarification. I'm a bit surprised how many have missed the main point of the question.

 

[Russ Willstrong]

Just my opinion but moving forward this Panthers loss isnt as big a deal as our loss to the pats.
Cam Newton is the reigning MVP and despite his immaturity his team still rallies around him in postgame interviews. In their eyes he will learn and grow from this loss. Despite the petulance exhibited by their qb the rest of the panthers appear more mature and unified.
This was not the case with the Seahawks after their loss. Not only did we lose in a heartbreak fashion but the level of controversy among teammates threatened to ruin the upcoming season. Angry teammates alleged that management conspired to win RW an MVP by throwing from the 1yd line. During the season our QB of this franchise wasnt in tune with the others and not black enough? Was it true as Doug Baldwin insists that our FO wanted Wilson to win SB 49 MVP over Lynch to establish Wilson as the leader of this team. Then there were contract talks and holdouts. Your franchise qb and his gigantic contract was front center for scrutiny. No team had more reasons to fold going into the season.

 

[DavidSeven]

The INT at the 1 was a more devastating play, but Carroll handled damage-control better than the White House. By this time last year, you had statisticians and major newspapers writing impassioned defenses of the play call.

On the other hand, nothing that Cam or Rivera has said has really made their situation better. Cam even admitted he backed off to avoid buckling his knee. He's still taking a pounding in public opinion. Sometimes the media stuff has a way of turning fairly innocuous stuff into bigger issues. I can see that happening here.

I think this thing may end up lingering longer for Carolina, shocking as that may have seemed 48 hours ago.

 

[sc85sis]

Ask this again in about five years.

 

[themunn]

The way people act as if 1 unfortunate play is the be all and end all makes me wonder if the same people think XXXXIX was worse than XL?

I'm already over 49... XL I'll never get over

 

[sutz]

The way people act as if 1 unfortunate play is the be all and end all makes me wonder if the same people think XXXXIX was worse than XL?

I'm already over 49... XL I'll never get over

This. Of course, 48 helps ease the pain of 49 a bit.

 

[Popeyejones]

After the Hawks loss Hawks fans were insisting that the whole team would be forced to revolt against Bevell, which could have long-term negative unless PC fired Bevell. None of that happened.

After the Panthers loss some people are insisting that the whole team will turn on Newton, which could have have long-term negative consequences for the Panthers. That's not going to happen either.

Losing the Super Bowl sucks. Getting to the Super Bowl is really hard and is more based on chance than any othe major sport, which most football fans don't want to admit. For this same reason getting back to the Super Bowl is also really hard.

The "type" of loss in the Super Bowl doesn't matter, IMO.

 

[Hawks46]

It's tough to theorize, but honestly it comes down to this:

Do Cam's team mates have confidence in him and feel like he can lead them from behind to win ?

Or do Cam's team mates feel like he'll give up under adversity ?

If it's the second one, then it's more damaging than what happened to us in SB 49. Cam has a history of pouting, and when he finally got some momentum and confidence in the last year and a half, it changed for him. His team mates also responded to that.

I think the after effects of SB 49 were blunted a bit by Kam's hold out and Lynch being hurt a lot. I think that if Lynch was playing every game it might've made a difference, but he was a non factor most of the season.

I really think we're over SB 49. I'm betting our players are more focused on how they lost to the Panthers and what they can do to improve than a SB from going on 2 years ago.

We'll see what lasting effects the Panthers have.

 

[drdiags]

The Seahawks loss is more damaging to the Seahawks psyche, the Panthers loss is more damaging to the Panthers psyche.

Teams have gone decades and not made it to the big game. No one knows if their team is going back the next year or the next decade. Other than the Patriots.

A team can quickly go from a vaunted foe to a shell of itself. No one is expecting this will happen to the Panthers or Seahawks but nothing is given.

 

[ZagHawk]

And by the way, to all you turds who keep harping on the decision to throw instead of run on 2nd down and 1 at SB49 with 26 seconds to go:

You do realize that:

1. The Seahawks only had one timeout remaining with 26 seconds to go;

2. If they run instead of pass and fail they would have to use their final timeout, and would likely only get one more play off if they tried to run on 3rd down - thus only getting two shots at the end zone;

3. Throwing a pass on 2nd down virtually guarantees the Seahawks get to run three plays (assuming that the worst thing doesn't happen which is throw the interception) whether they run or pass either on 3rd or 4th down...this most certainly keeps the defense off balance;

4. Marshawn Lynch wasn't exactly money on the 1 yd line - in the past five years he only converted 45% of the time, and in 2014 he was only 1 of 5 (20%);

5. In 102 slant passes run from the 1 yd line in the NFL in 2015, there were ZERO interceptions thrown in the entire NFL...Wilson's pass was the first one thrown that year. It was a low risk pass.

6. In the 2013/14 NFC championship against San Francisco, with 8:30 seconds to go in the 4th, on 4th down and 1 with the Seahawks looking to put the game away, THE SEAHAWKS CALL A RUN LEFT TO MARSHAWN WHO GETS HIT, FUMBLES AND TURNS THE BALL OVER TO THE 49ERS GIVING THEM A NEW LIFE. Thankfully the Seahawks held on to win that game but needed a miracle tip play interception in the end zone to finish them, and went on to win their only Super Bowl title in franchise history. But we were a tip away from losing that game...which never should have been so critical in putting the game away if Lynch managed to run it into the end zone earlier on 4th and 1.


I just love all the revisionists who go off about how the play call was so stupid yet everyone forgets that Marshawn nearly fumbled away the Super Bowl for us the year before on 4th and 1. ITS NOT AN AUTOMATIC TD TO RUN IT FROM THERE YOU GOOFS...ESPECIALLY IF EVERYONE ON EARTH KNOWS YOU'RE GOING TO RUN IT. And everyone on the planet expected the run at that moment - which is exactly why calling a pass, particularly considering the clock, the down, the situation, and the timeouts remaining was a great call. It just wasn't executed (and was brilliantly defended)

It may have been the right call by all the numbers. But you try to convince that very emotional locker room after that loss that it was the right decision. Or heck even months after.

 

[AVL]

This place is full of drama queens. Losing the superbowl in any fashion is better than not going.

Listening to all of the crabs in the pot trying to pull you back in mentally makes you more of a loser.

 

[IndyHawk]

People are taking shots at Cam for not diving after that ball. First thing I thought of when I saw that was that it was similar to what happened to RG3. He went down for a ball too close to his feet and wrecked his knee. That looked to be a very similar situation for Cam from my point of view. The ball was in that in between area where it isn't far enough away he can make a comfortable and safe dive after it.

Cam sure did handle that post game like a child though. Hope he learns from it. He should watch video of how Manning took it after SB48.

Safety?Are you frigging kidding me?? ukeface:

 

[athanas]

People are taking shots at Cam for not diving after that ball. First thing I thought of when I saw that was that it was similar to what happened to RG3. He went down for a ball too close to his feet and wrecked his knee. That looked to be a very similar situation for Cam from my point of view. The ball was in that in between area where it isn't far enough away he can make a comfortable and safe dive after it.

Cam sure did handle that post game like a child though. Hope he learns from it. He should watch video of how Manning took it after SB48.

Yeah, but RGIII was playing on a cow pasture with a knee held together with bird feces and spit. I'm inclined to say lasting as long as he did on that bum stick was a miracle.

This was a live ball drill that the ordained jewel of the league looked at and said "...nah".

 

[Vancanhawksfan]

And by the way, to all you turds who keep harping on the decision to throw instead of run on 2nd down and 1 at SB49 with 26 seconds to go:

You do realize that:

1. The Seahawks only had one timeout remaining with 26 seconds to go;

2. If they run instead of pass and fail they would have to use their final timeout, and would likely only get one more play off if they tried to run on 3rd down - thus only getting two shots at the end zone;

3. Throwing a pass on 2nd down virtually guarantees the Seahawks get to run three plays (assuming that the worst thing doesn't happen which is throw the interception) whether they run or pass either on 3rd or 4th down...this most certainly keeps the defense off balance;

4. Marshawn Lynch wasn't exactly money on the 1 yd line - in the past five years he only converted 45% of the time, and in 2014 he was only 1 of 5 (20%);

5. In 102 slant passes run from the 1 yd line in the NFL in 2015, there were ZERO interceptions thrown in the entire NFL...Wilson's pass was the first one thrown that year. It was a low risk pass.

6. In the 2013/14 NFC championship against San Francisco, with 8:30 seconds to go in the 4th, on 4th down and 1 with the Seahawks looking to put the game away, THE SEAHAWKS CALL A RUN LEFT TO MARSHAWN WHO GETS HIT, FUMBLES AND TURNS THE BALL OVER TO THE 49ERS GIVING THEM A NEW LIFE. Thankfully the Seahawks held on to win that game but needed a miracle tip play interception in the end zone to finish them, and went on to win their only Super Bowl title in franchise history. But we were a tip away from losing that game...which never should have been so critical in putting the game away if Lynch managed to run it into the end zone earlier on 4th and 1.


I just love all the revisionists who go off about how the play call was so stupid yet everyone forgets that Marshawn nearly fumbled away the Super Bowl for us the year before on 4th and 1. ITS NOT AN AUTOMATIC TD TO RUN IT FROM THERE YOU GOOFS...ESPECIALLY IF EVERYONE ON EARTH KNOWS YOU'RE GOING TO RUN IT. And everyone on the planet expected the run at that moment - which is exactly why calling a pass, particularly considering the clock, the down, the situation, and the timeouts remaining was a great call. It just wasn't executed (and was brilliantly defended)

It may have been the right call by all the numbers. But you try to convince that very emotional locker room after that loss that it was the right decision. Or heck even months after.

As time goes by logic and reason wins out in these kinds of instances. Fans tend to be the most illogical because they can be too stupid to allow themselves to hear it, but there are some players that go full moron too. However as time goes by the rational people - in particular the leaders in the locker room and the team - eventually get the message through to even the most emotionally stupid teammates and they see the logic and reason.

The play at the end of SB 49 was just one play that didn't happen to go right out of hundreds of plays executed in that game. It happens. No one sabotaged the team. There was no conspiracy. No one did anything unforgivable. There was sound logic behind the play that was called. No one was a coward. Anyone that says otherwise is a moron and doesn't deserve the time of day (but does it surprise you how many morons exist in this world).

The Cam Newton bailing on jumping on that fumble is not the same thing. This was the most important game of his life - and his teammates' lives - and every play in a game is important...just because a play happens at the end or in the middle of the third quarter makes no difference. Stupid fans don't recognize that - but professional athletes do. A turnover is a turnover and it makes no difference when it happens. And Cam Newton made a business decision to protect his well being rather than recognizing that he gets paid hundreds of millions of dollars to WIN SUPER BOWLS - that was the moment that all these professional athletes work all their lives for, and they are suppose to give everything they have when it is most important - and he bailed on them at that most important of times. Maybe some of his fans will forgive Newton for it - because fans are stupid and focus on the wrong things - but his teammates will always remember. Guys like Thomas Davis who played with a wrecked forearm (that was grotesque)...they will never forget that play. That play could very well have been the difference and Newton b1tched out on them.

That will follow him forever because opposing fans will never let him nor his teammates forget it.

 

[nash72]

I don't know how this can even be in question. The interception in 49 was way worse and damaging than Cam not jumping on the fumble. The interception will forever go down as the worst play call in superbowl history. Seahawk fans want to water down the taste of it by saying that Lynch didn't have a good goal line percentage when given the chance, but what teams did he have those chances against? Probably a bunch of NFC West teams that have absolutely brutal defenses to start with. We're talking about a weak and totally gassed New England defense. Give Lynch the ball and theres no doubt we are hoisting a 2nd Lombardi trophy right now. As for the interception, that was the worst pass play anybody could have called. So many things wrong with it. A short QB throwing into a crowded area with the ball being delivered to one of our worst receivers. Barring all that, the Patriots knew what we were running before the ball was even snapped. You telling me Browner hasent seen that before and didn't warn Butler what was coming? Please. That play clung to the Hawks damn near all season and some probably still are pissed and have trust issues with Pete and Bevell.

Cam screwed up but that play wont come back and define him. It was bad, but it wasn't the sole reason they lost the game.

 

[NINEster]

You guys think Lynch was a lock for the TD? Just because he's "beast mode"?

Not in that personnel group at that moment, with the clock running. Patriots were in goal line D, while the Seahawks were not in a goal line offense (no FB, receivers spread out wide). With Lynch being 1/5 all season from the yard line, you cannot just say it was a lock. I don't know what 5 plays those were, but maybe there's a good chance they were all run out of similar formation like this.

Belichick said he kept the goal line D out there and didn't want to call a time out.

I just pulled up the visual and paid attention to this aspect for the first time. Lynch would have had to have made a helluva run to get it in against that formation.

So what do you do? Call the time out and run the right play?

Sure, and it probably works. But if it doesn't, now you have 3rd and goal from wherever, with no timeouts and ~15-20 seconds on the clock. Maybe you hurry up and throw it one more time and then maybe run it if you don't get it?

Here's where I take the rare stance of agreeing with Seahawk coaching staff over their own fans.

If anything, the play call of throwing the slant was very risky. Butler made an amazing play but Wilson could/should have done more to make it less interceptable.

Looking back, maybe the call should have been a spike. And then two straight downs to run it. Downs are precious yes, but time even more precious. A bootleg roll out with the pass/run option probably kills the clock without it being an absolute waste of a down.

All of this fails to acknowledge that the Seahawks burnt up 1 or even 2 time outs on that drive?? (the only reason we're even having this conversation of throwing it).

And Jermaine Kearse.....another simple routine catch there. Had nothing to do with being lucky.

That ball goes incomplete as it would have 999 times out of 1000, and how does this game really end up?

 

[NINEster]

And by the way, to all you turds who keep harping on the decision to throw instead of run on 2nd down and 1 at SB49 with 26 seconds to go:

You do realize that:

1. The Seahawks only had one timeout remaining with 26 seconds to go;

2. If they run instead of pass and fail they would have to use their final timeout, and would likely only get one more play off if they tried to run on 3rd down - thus only getting two shots at the end zone;

3. Throwing a pass on 2nd down virtually guarantees the Seahawks get to run three plays (assuming that the worst thing doesn't happen which is throw the interception) whether they run or pass either on 3rd or 4th down...this most certainly keeps the defense off balance;

4. Marshawn Lynch wasn't exactly money on the 1 yd line - in the past five years he only converted 45% of the time, and in 2014 he was only 1 of 5 (20%);

5. In 102 slant passes run from the 1 yd line in the NFL in 2015, there were ZERO interceptions thrown in the entire NFL...Wilson's pass was the first one thrown that year. It was a low risk pass.

6. In the 2013/14 NFC championship against San Francisco, with 8:30 seconds to go in the 4th, on 4th down and 1 with the Seahawks looking to put the game away, THE SEAHAWKS CALL A RUN LEFT TO MARSHAWN WHO GETS HIT, FUMBLES AND TURNS THE BALL OVER TO THE 49ERS GIVING THEM A NEW LIFE. Thankfully the Seahawks held on to win that game but needed a miracle tip play interception in the end zone to finish them, and went on to win their only Super Bowl title in franchise history. But we were a tip away from losing that game...which never should have been so critical in putting the game away if Lynch managed to run it into the end zone earlier on 4th and 1.


I just love all the revisionists who go off about how the play call was so stupid yet everyone forgets that Marshawn nearly fumbled away the Super Bowl for us the year before on 4th and 1. ITS NOT AN AUTOMATIC TD TO RUN IT FROM THERE YOU GOOFS...ESPECIALLY IF EVERYONE ON EARTH KNOWS YOU'RE GOING TO RUN IT. And everyone on the planet expected the run at that moment - which is exactly why calling a pass, particularly considering the clock, the down, the situation, and the timeouts remaining was a great call. It just wasn't executed (and was brilliantly defended)

I didn't see this post when I posted mine.

I completely agree, and coming from a Hawk fan it will resonate a lot more naturally.

Which brings up maybe another interesting point.

Never take anything for granted. Never assume anything is a given.

Just like the Packers should have won the 2014 NFCC but didn't, same thing with Seattle -- they had to actually win it to say they would have won it.

A famous SB highlight that is put on high regard is Montana hitting John Taylor for a 10 yard post pattern to win SB23 against the Bengals with 34 seconds remaining. As a Niner fan I've taken it for granted for so many years, as it was a good throw but an easy catch, etc.

Taylor is my favorite Niner but I've felt that that play was a bit overrated.

Now having seen what happened to Seattle in 2014 and San Francisco in 2012 to end their SBs, it makes me appreciate that red zone scoring is not something to be taken lightly, especially for all the marbles.

It's a huge issue for teams to score in the red zone in general. Now it's a guarantee they'll do it on the biggest stage?

 

[TheHawkster]

The Super Bowl hangover is real.

Time will tell. Meanwhile, every team in the NFC is setting their roster to attack that style of offense.

Who's was worse? Let's see if the Panthers make the playoffs next year.

 

[253hawk]

I'd rather lose on a poorly executed play than lose the ball and therefor the game due to lack of effort.

Except that's not really what happened.

The panthers DID NOT lose the game because they didn't recover the ball.

Okay, well, the Panther's didn't lose explicitly because of Newton's gaffe, but it certainly sealed the outcome. The game was still winnable up to that point.

I guess either could be worse, depending on the character of the team and how they deal with it. The way Carolina let the success go to their heads and then got schooled by a one-dimensional team...I think they'll struggle heavily next season.

I'm not 100% sold on Lynch punching it in...seems like most of his fumbles happen inside the 5 when the box is stacked and it's easier to put a helmet on the ball. I was hoping for a read-option keeper from Russ like we saw in the NFCCG. It was used so infrequently last year that it worked perfectly every time.

 

[onepicknick]

When you watch that video you can see maybe why Cam never went for the ball a little close to the Knees.
Funny thing may grandchild who is 9 said I would never call for a fair catch I would try to run it every time, My reply I think I would call for the fair catch before the punter kicks it LOL just seeing some of the hits these guy unleash.