Which loss is more damaging to a team?

[ivotuk]

The controversy surrounding not giving the ball to Lynch on the one yard line or Cam not diving on the fumble?

I think the interception was more heart breaking but I think Cam's actions may damage the team more (combined a bit with the fact that I don't think Cam is the leader Wilson is to be able to recover from it).

Throwing the INT to lose the game is 10000 times worse than anything cam did. It isn't even close.

You might as well ask us what is more important, winning a preseason game or winning the Super Bowl. It's not even in the same universe.

Pretty much this. Not even close.

Zero guarantee he recovers that ball, and doubtful to change the outcome of the game.

His wide receivers are dropping passes, running backs are fumbling balls, why should he risk a career ending ankle or knee injury on a loose ball with defensive linemen rolling around and an offensive linemen coming in a like a heat-seeking missile?

Versus

Throwing the ball on the 1 yard line when you have Marshawn Lynch and losing the Superbowl?

They didn't even roll Russell out to give him a chance to make a decision. It was catch the ball and throw it, everything on the line with Ricardo Lockette as your most important cog on the offense? Seriously? :34853_doh:

 

[TwistedHusky]

I disagree.

Great QBs, even some of the greatest, have thrown interceptions that lost games in big games. Especially in the EZ where it is a given there is less space and more chance a defender is there. Those QBs rarely have those INTs follow them years later unless it becomes a habit OR is their only shot in the big game.

Interceptions happen, even when they suck.

But quitting or refusing to play all out in the most important game of year at a time the game was still winnable? That is inexcusable. Then you get jokes like How Cam Newton and Fig Newtons Are Alike (They both are soft inside and crumble under pressure). Worse than tanking your brand, how are the other players supposed to trust you now?

If you are not willing to sacrifice yourself or give 100%, will any of your teammates feel you have a right to ask it of them?

That way they lost hurts them in a lot more ways. Sure, emotionally it probably hurts more for the team & fans to almost have it. But the damage that did to how people & other players see their QB + leader? Not comparable.

 

[nepahawk]

The controversy surrounding not giving the ball to Lynch on the one yard line or Cam not diving on the fumble?

I think the interception was more heart breaking but I think Cam's actions may damage the team more (combined a bit with the fact that I don't think Cam is the leader Wilson is to be able to recover from it).

Throwing the INT to lose the game is 10000 times worse than anything cam did. It isn't even close.

You might as well ask us what is more important, winning a preseason game or winning the Super Bowl. It's not even in the same universe.

Pretty much this. Not even close.

Zero guarantee he recovers that ball, and doubtful to change the outcome of the game.

His wide receivers are dropping passes, running backs are fumbling balls, why should he risk a career ending ankle or knee injury on a loose ball with defensive linemen rolling around and an offensive linemen coming in a like a heat-seeking missile?

Versus

Throwing the ball on the 1 yard line when you have Marshawn Lynch and losing the Superbowl?

They didn't even roll Russell out to give him a chance to make a decision. It was catch the ball and throw it, everything on the line with Ricardo Lockette as your most important cog on the offense? Seriously? :34853_doh:

How can you expect a team to respect and follow their "leader", captain, MVP when he is not willing the give his all at a crucial time and game?
Face of the franchise, no thank you.
I'd take Wilson anytime any day over Cam.
We lost the SB on that interception, the play was there, poor execution.
Handing off to Lynch was not a guaranteed TD.
Cam giving up on his team is unforgivable. Imo

 

[Vancanhawksfan]

The controversy surrounding not giving the ball to Lynch on the one yard line or Cam not diving on the fumble?

I think the interception was more heart breaking but I think Cam's actions may damage the team more (combined a bit with the fact that I don't think Cam is the leader Wilson is to be able to recover from it).

Throwing the INT to lose the game is 10000 times worse than anything cam did. It isn't even close.

You might as well ask us what is more important, winning a preseason game or winning the Super Bowl. It's not even in the same universe.

Pretty much this. Not even close.

Zero guarantee he recovers that ball, and doubtful to change the outcome of the game.

His wide receivers are dropping passes, running backs are fumbling balls, why should he risk a career ending ankle or knee injury on a loose ball with defensive linemen rolling around and an offensive linemen coming in a like a heat-seeking missile?

Versus

Throwing the ball on the 1 yard line when you have Marshawn Lynch and losing the Superbowl?

They didn't even roll Russell out to give him a chance to make a decision. It was catch the ball and throw it, everything on the line with Ricardo Lockette as your most important cog on the offense? Seriously? :34853_doh:

You guys are misinterpreting the question. The OP didn't ask which play hurt their team's chances to win that specific game. He asked which of these specific plays will damage the team more (implying not just at that moment, but going forward in the future as well).

Of course the Wilson INT ended their hopes of winning SB49. No one is denying that it was crippling at that time. But the play was forgivable with respect to Wilson, Lockette and the overall team chemistry going forward in the future. No one will question Wilson's desire and commitment to win based on that one play.

Newton's fumble? Yeah...if he recovers it of course there's no way of knowing that they can come back if he did. But the point is that he wasn't willing to give 100% commitment to find out if they could, and that will haunt him for the rest of his career. His teammates will watch the replays and see the memes over and over again every single time something negative happens to that team and to Newton, and his heart will always be questioned...how can it not? That play will most certainly be more damaging to that team in future years to come than Wilson's INT ever will be. As we can see the Seahawks are now Russell Wilson's team.

 

[Hawks46]

How couldn't it be the Panthers' loss?

That mistake by Cam is going to haunt him for YEARS.

Giving up in a winnable game is very likely to be known as "Camming It"

Even more significant, that is 2 trips to the SB with no wins. Next one they are going to have the spectre of the Buffalo Bills hanging over them.

But worse, Cam went from a guy that the NFL was doing its best to market as the 'Next Big Thing' to a guy that no sponsor is going to want to touch (who wants to be associated with a gutless petulant quitter?). That is your leader and the face of your franchise. How do you reconcile that? Well, you have to push forth another leader - but that is going to cause conflict within the team.

There is no way he can continue to be the leader of that team without a massive Mea Culpa moment and I don't think he is mentally capable of even understanding this. So I don't see him giving up the sceptre. There is bound to be division in that locker room next year.

When their schedule comes back to earth, that blame is going to be pointed all around. I think he will collapse under that weight just like he collapsed under the weight of trying to come back down 6 in a winnable game.

And don't forget they will start to lose people too. Norman is already clamoring for a contract. Other guys on that line are going to be very attractive soon.

This is the kind of loss that either leads to a SB run or a complete implosion. I don't see their QB having the mental toughness or leadership credibility to pull everyone together and refocus them for another run. Which means implosion is more likely.

We had veterans who had been there, and had the fortune to lose to a team that nobody would blame us too much for losing to. We never got called out for choking, that was just Brady being Brady. Very different.

This is a good post. Newton has always been questioned about his mental toughness and maturity. No one questions his physical skill set, talent, ability or potential.

How can you be a leader when you pout when things don't go right ? We found out this year; it's tough after a tough SB loss and according to Pete and Russ, it took about half the year before guys got in the right mindset. Look at how we were getting beat; losing 4th quarter leads wasn't getting physically beat, it was mental errors.

The Panthers are going to need a leader. Newton has too much ego to let Kuechly take over the team, so I think it's going to be tough sledding for them as soon as adversity hits. And it will hit. No way they see 15-1 again.

 

[TwistedHusky]

It reminds me of Watters' "For Who? For What?" Moment. He was a tremendous player but that line followed him for a long time. Every time he did something good, that moment was brought up to counter it.

I imagine that at his next Dance, the opposing team won't hesitate to remind him.

 

[bjornanderson21]

I'd rather lose on a poorly executed play than lose the ball and therefor the game due to lack of effort.

Except that's not really what happened.

The panthers DID NOT lose the game because they didn't recover the ball.

The seahawks DID lose from an unforgiveable TO at the goalline.

It's not even close.

Anyone who says the Panther's loss is worse is living in denial.


Our screwup was quite likely the worst play in NFL HISTORY and they will be showing it for 100 years.

Cam not jumping on the ball did not have anywhere near the impact our play did, and people will not be talking about Cam 100 years from now.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Define worse though? That is subjective.

Emotional pain? Potential loss? Us by a mile.

But damage to the team that can literally remove the value of your starting QB that was a draft pick you groomed in the hope it would make you a regular contender? Panthers.

We are still regular contenders. Wilson's interception has not diminished, (to my knowledge) his credibility with the fans, the media or his team. If anything else, he has improved since then.

Kam faces having to justify every mistake he makes from here on out that makes him look disinterested or like he didn't expend enough effort. And he still has to justify why he failed to jump on the ball (out of potential injury risk fear?) to teammates - some of whom were playing with injuries like a broken arm or broken foot.

We won't know the impact until later, but unless you think the damage in missing the SB affected our chance at hitting the playoffs, it will be hard to count vs the Panthers. This next year, people are going to scrutinize the QB, the locker room has a risk of fracture and Cam is going to have a hard time calling out ANYONE when there is very public video of him ostensibly quitting in the biggest game at a key moment.

BTW there were 4 min to go in the game, Carolina had all their TOs. Very likely that if Denver gets the ball they do nothing with it and Carolina potentially has not one but 2 drive chances to try to take the lead - in a game only down by 6 points.

All just if Carolina gets the ball back or bats the ball away so that Denver does not recover and then score. That game was very winnable at that point.

 

[BullHawk33]

People are taking shots at Cam for not diving after that ball. First thing I thought of when I saw that was that it was similar to what happened to RG3. He went down for a ball too close to his feet and wrecked his knee. That looked to be a very similar situation for Cam from my point of view. The ball was in that in between area where it isn't far enough away he can make a comfortable and safe dive after it.

Cam sure did handle that post game like a child though. Hope he learns from it. He should watch video of how Manning took it after SB48.

 

[Polaris]

People are taking shots at Cam for not diving after that ball. First thing I thought of when I saw that was that it was similar to what happened to RG3. He went down for a ball too close to his feet and wrecked his knee. That looked to be a very similar situation for Cam from my point of view. The ball was in that in between area where it isn't far enough away he can make a comfortable and safe dive after it.

Cam sure did handle that post game like a child though. Hope he learns from it. He should watch video of how Manning took it after SB48.

It was a LIVE BALL in an absolutely game critical situation and Cam looked right at the ball and backed away. That is unforgivable at any level of football let alone the NFL and let alone the Superbowl.

 

[bigskydoc]

How does this guy



EVER respect Cam after a play like that?


How does a hired gun like Jared Allen ever respect Cam again?

What free agent is going to want to play with Cam, knowing that on the biggest stage he isn't going to give 100%?


The Hawks learned from their mistake and move on to never repeat it again.

Everyone in the league learned from Cam, exactly what Cam is and what he is willing to risk for the biggest prize.



- bsd

 

[chris98251]

I'd rather lose on a poorly executed play than lose the ball and therefor the game due to lack of effort.

Except that's not really what happened.

The panthers DID NOT lose the game because they didn't recover the ball.

The seahawks DID lose from an unforgiveable TO at the goalline.

It's not even close.

Anyone who says the Panther's loss is worse is living in denial.


Our screwup was quite likely the worst play in NFL HISTORY and they will be showing it for 100 years.

Cam not jumping on the ball did not have anywhere near the impact our play did, and people will not be talking about Cam 100 years from now.

The difference is the Wilson interception was the final chance so it was more catastrophic, the Panthers lost because their MVP,Team Leader, QB quit on them.

Tell me what was worse, a mistake trying 110 percent or not even trying.

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

Our loss was way worse than Cam not going for the ball.

Cam looked finished. He was looking to leave the city and run from the media.

We had the chance to win but flat out gave it away.

12s and all Seahawks players and coaches will never forget the idiocy of not giving the ball to Lynch for some reason (we all know why) the coaches (Carroll and Bevell) did not want Lynch to win the game.

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

Losing the Super Bowl when the play calling and players not giving it their all tends to separate teammates. Teammates start to resent each other. Most players give their all when the biggest prize in the game in the biggest game in American sports with over 120 million people worldwide watch. And when players see their teammates not going 100 percent and not putting their bodies on the line to win it all, you can bet players start to second guess, trust is lost, and bonds begin to break.

It's human nature.

 

[pmedic920]

Our loss was way worse than Cam not going for the ball.

Cam looked finished. He was looking to leave the city and run from the media.

We had the chance to win but flat out gave it away.

12s and all Seahawks players and coaches will never forget the idiocy of not giving the ball to Lynch for some reason (we all know why) the coaches (Carroll and Bevell) did not want Lynch to win the game.

Huh?

First thing first but not actually important, you like many seem to have missed the point of the OP's question. It's not a matter of which loss was worse, it is about the damage that was done in a "moving forward" kind of way.

2nd thing, do you actually believe that the coaching staff avoided calling a run play because they didn't want #24 to win the game?

 

[ZagHawk]

Lets not kid ourselves, there was no worse way to lose the SB than the way our Hawks did on that 1 yard line. Did we forget how much drama came out of that and how long it lasted. Heck they were STILL talking about it during this season's playoffs run.

 

[sc85sis]

Our loss was way worse than Cam not going for the ball.

Cam looked finished. He was looking to leave the city and run from the media.

We had the chance to win but flat out gave it away.

12s and all Seahawks players and coaches will never forget the idiocy of not giving the ball to Lynch for some reason (we all know why) the coaches (Carroll and Bevell) did not want Lynch to win the game.

Yeah because they'd rather lose a chance at history than have Lynch score the winning TD.

Or not.

Pete is one of the most competitive people around. If he felt giving Marshawn the ball was guaranteed to get the team a score and a win, you'd better believe Marshawn would have gotten the ball. Fact is, Marshawn had not had a whole lot of goal line success last season and that's why Pete called for the pass.

 

[Vancanhawksfan]

And by the way, to all you turds who keep harping on the decision to throw instead of run on 2nd down and 1 at SB49 with 26 seconds to go:

You do realize that:

1. The Seahawks only had one timeout remaining with 26 seconds to go;

2. If they run instead of pass and fail they would have to use their final timeout, and would likely only get one more play off if they tried to run on 3rd down - thus only getting two shots at the end zone;

3. Throwing a pass on 2nd down virtually guarantees the Seahawks get to run three plays (assuming that the worst thing doesn't happen which is throw the interception) whether they run or pass either on 3rd or 4th down...this most certainly keeps the defense off balance;

4. Marshawn Lynch wasn't exactly money on the 1 yd line - in the past five years he only converted 45% of the time, and in 2014 he was only 1 of 5 (20%);

5. In 102 slant passes run from the 1 yd line in the NFL in 2015, there were ZERO interceptions thrown in the entire NFL...Wilson's pass was the first one thrown that year. It was a low risk pass.

6. In the 2013/14 NFC championship against San Francisco, with 8:30 seconds to go in the 4th, on 4th down and 1 with the Seahawks looking to put the game away, THE SEAHAWKS CALL A RUN LEFT TO MARSHAWN WHO GETS HIT, FUMBLES AND TURNS THE BALL OVER TO THE 49ERS GIVING THEM A NEW LIFE. Thankfully the Seahawks held on to win that game but needed a miracle tip play interception in the end zone to finish them, and went on to win their only Super Bowl title in franchise history. But we were a tip away from losing that game...which never should have been so critical in putting the game away if Lynch managed to run it into the end zone earlier on 4th and 1.


I just love all the revisionists who go off about how the play call was so stupid yet everyone forgets that Marshawn nearly fumbled away the Super Bowl for us the year before on 4th and 1. ITS NOT AN AUTOMATIC TD TO RUN IT FROM THERE YOU GOOFS...ESPECIALLY IF EVERYONE ON EARTH KNOWS YOU'RE GOING TO RUN IT. And everyone on the planet expected the run at that moment - which is exactly why calling a pass, particularly considering the clock, the down, the situation, and the timeouts remaining was a great call. It just wasn't executed (and was brilliantly defended)

 

[scutterhawk]

Our loss was way worse than Cam not going for the ball.

Cam looked finished. He was looking to leave the city and run from the media.

We had the chance to win but flat out gave it away.

12s and all Seahawks players and coaches will never forget the idiocy of not giving the ball to Lynch for some reason (we all know why) the coaches (Carroll and Bevell) did not want Lynch to win the game.

Huh?

First thing first but not actually important, you like many seem to have missed the point of the OP's question. It's not a matter of which loss was worse, it is about the damage that was done in a "moving forward" kind of way.

2nd thing, do you actually believe that the coaching staff avoided calling a run play because they didn't want #24 to win the game?

Yeah, that one kind of drifted away from any semblance of Logic for me also.

 

[Rob12]

It's time that 49 is put behind this team. I really, really believe that the fans wallow in it more than the current players on the roster.

So you should really be asking what annihilates a fan's psyche more? And judging by the pathetic meltdowns on that Huddle site, we're the ones still standing.

Carolina is a one trick pony and he just got exposed on the biggest stage. It wasn't even his performance on the field that told me all I need to know. It was after the game. Contrast that to the last two pressers Russ has done following playoff losses. Cam is not a leader, and that will be the cause of the unraveling of the Panthers.