What is our plan?

[Crizilla]

>get younger
>increase competition
>???
>profit

 

[pittpnthrs]

Our plan - rid team of distractions, get young new players in that wont question Carrolls ways and get 'on board' so to say, free up cash, attempt to run the ball again.

What will actually happen - Carroll will hang it up in a couple years when his contract expires because the Rams and 49ers beat on us and we cant reach the playoffs, Schneider takes his leave also as he continues to reach and miss in the draft, the running game will still blow as will the offensive line and Russ finally gets sidelined with injuries, the defense will be middle of the road.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

:?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Our plan - rid team of distractions, get young new players in that wont question Carrolls ways and get 'on board' so to say, free up cash, attempt to run the ball again.

What will actually happen - Carroll will hang it up in a couple years when his contract expires because the Rams and 49ers beat on us and we cant reach the playoffs, Schneider takes his leave also as he continues to reach and miss in the draft, the running game will still blow as will the offensive line and Russ finally gets sidelined with injuries, the defense will be middle of the road.

Well that's depressing.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Our plan - rid team of distractions, get young new players in that wont question Carrolls ways and get 'on board' so to say, free up cash, attempt to run the ball again.

What will actually happen - Carroll will hang it up in a couple years when his contract expires because the Rams and 49ers beat on us and we cant reach the playoffs, Schneider takes his leave also as he continues to reach and miss in the draft, the running game will still blow as will the offensive line and Russ finally gets sidelined with injuries, the defense will be middle of the road.

Well that's depressing.

Yeah, I know, but thats how I see it playing out.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Our plan - rid team of distractions, get young new players in that wont question Carrolls ways and get 'on board' so to say, free up cash, attempt to run the ball again.

What will actually happen - Carroll will hang it up in a couple years when his contract expires because the Rams and 49ers beat on us and we cant reach the playoffs, Schneider takes his leave also as he continues to reach and miss in the draft, the running game will still blow as will the offensive line and Russ finally gets sidelined with injuries, the defense will be middle of the road.

Well that's depressing.

Yeah, I know, but thats how I see it playing out.

I don't see things quite as dire as you, for two reasons..................Paul Allen and Russell Wilson. As long as these two are with the Hawks, this team should be able to weather a rebuild, whether that's with John and Pete, or another GM/HC combo over the next 5-7 years until Russell starts slowing down.

So I'm not tied to the agony that if it's not Pete and John, or John with another great HC that we're doomed. Allen hired Holmgren, Allen hired Pete, so he's the kind of owner that will hire another innovative football mind that can rebuild another great SB caliber team.

Again, might not be next year, might not even be in 2-3 years. But as long as we have Russell in his prime, and Allen as our owner, I'm not going to give up hope that this era of success is over.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Very good points.

 

[TwistedHusky]

That is a lot to put on Russell Wilson.

Wilson reminds me of Krieg, without all the fumbles. A 3x better version but the running around and saving the offense stuff is pretty close. But closer to Krieg than Steve Young is the point.

I don't see Wilson as a guy that can carry a team like an Aaron Rodgers though. Maybe because of consistency.

And maybe Wilson was telling us the issue we would face. If 'The Separation Is In The Preparation' then maybe the lack of separation is because he is no longer as prepared as he was. Wilson built his success on devoting massive amounts of time & energy to study and practice. The stories were all there of how much time he spent in the facility - oddly we do not hear those anymore.

And Wilson has a lot of irons in the fire, I don't begrudge him that. He is preparing for life after football, and he has a wife + kid. Family does have to come first. Asking him to do some of the things he did might come with a price that he isn't able to pay or won't.

It is certainly possible that the consistency issues have a lot to do with the level of commitment changing. So with Wilson, especially after we gut this team to keep him, you probably are going to be stuck at 7-9 wins. Barely making the playoffs some years, missing them in others. AND he has also learned a lot of bad habits due to the uneven offenses and lines he was forced to play behind.

Maybe Carroll can change, but planning without a way to execute the plan is called wishing (maybe dreaming). Planning without a viable strategy to back it up? That has been how a lot of these plans have gone so far.

For us to succeed at all, that will have to change. Yet the big problem with Carroll is that he does not change.

So that is my assessment too. We tread water for a few years, try to force a game where Wilson + an average running game + an average defense can somehow get close. But it isn't a good recipe, is likely doomed to fail and Carroll leaves in 2-3 years. Maybe JS can turn it around to stem that, but he hasn't in several years - not sure how that would change.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

That is a lot to put on Russell Wilson.

Wilson reminds me of Krieg, without all the fumbles. A 3x better version but the running around and saving the offense stuff is pretty close. But closer to Krieg than Steve Young is the point.

Couldn't disagree more.

Use any analytics or stats you'd like, and Russell is far closer to Steve Young than Dave Krieg............add in the fact that he's faster, quicker and more elusive than Young ever was, and we've got a HOF QB if he keeps playing another 6-7 years.

But this conversation definitely gives me some insight Husky as to why you're so down on the Hawks, if you think these sort of things.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Maybe but Young was better at all the things a QB is actually supposed to be able to do.

And he did it before they changed a collection of rules to naturally favor the QB. Young was putting up numbers back when the average QB was throwing for 200yds a game. Wilson is faster, quicker and more elusive but Young was a much better QB.

Young was also good in all 4 quarters, not just the 4th quarters of 1/4 the games.

Wilson could be great and is great in small stretches. But we are reaching a point where we need production to start outweighing potential. Wilson is not consistent.

And I don't think you can expect him to carry the team at all, if we have to strip it down. Then again, we have not seen him with an actual OL but for his first year. So maybe he is like Barry Sanders finally getting a FB and rips off a legendary season.

We will see. But so far, the FO stripping our defense out while giving him a cast of nobodies at TE & WR (besides Baldwin) and making the inevitable spotty draft production - won't make it easy for Wilson to get much help.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

He's had one of the best 6 year stretches to start his career in the HISTORY of the NFL.

 

[mistaowen]

I believe this offseason is an eye opener for Pete and we will likely see a different approach to the roster going forward until he decides to retire. He brought in a crew of chip-on-their-shoulder players who fit his scheme, bought in, and flourished. Once his 'college' locker room style stopped resonating with some of the older players, no matter how talented they are, you lose that 'brotherhood'. The leaders who remain (Wilson, Baldwin, Wagner, Kam, newly appointed Frank Clark/Reed) all buy in. I have a feeling Earl does not, maybe not to the extent of Sherman, but enough that they're listening to offers.

I think we as fans need to expect more turnover of solid players in the coming years if Pete wants his style to stay competitive. Younger roster, unique niche skill sets, underpaid overachievers. I'm actually quite excited to see how this draft plays out and the roster churn that comes with training camp. I have no worries about Pete coaching up the next wave of defenders. If they can get the running game going, which every press conference seems to indicate is priority #1 and is an awesome draft to do so with, the offense should sort itself out. Neiko Thorpe is also one guy I hope steps up and takes the CB2 position.

Russell kept the team competitive with one of the worst running games in NFL history and through a huge list of contributing factors, barely missed the playoffs. Slow starts sucked but run the ball efficiently and the defense isn't on the field for 90% of the first three quarters.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Define competitive?

This is the same team that literally set records for TD impotence over the past few years - in an era when every advantage is given to the offense.

And the no run game thing is no excuse, because we had a run game in the earlier season. A middling one but it was not horrific like the last one. And yet we were going multiple games without a TD.

You do realize that to 'compete' you need to score TDs right?

 

[original poster]

 

[mistaowen]

Define competitive?

This is the same team that literally set records for TD impotence over the past few years - in an era when every advantage is given to the offense.

And the no run game thing is no excuse, because we had a run game in the earlier season. A middling one but it was not horrific like the last one. And yet we were going multiple games without a TD.

You do realize that to 'compete' you need to score TDs right?

I'm well aware of the first drive drought and general incompetence early on in games. The streak of games where the offense couldn't break 50 yards was infuriating. First series almost always was a quick 3 and out with poor game planning and a defense who knew what was coming. For some reason (could be on Russell, could be on play calls, could be on coaching) the team reset every single week and went with their failed deep ball approach without a working play action until something clicks and quick hitters move the ball with ease. The offense out of no where could flip a switch and shrink a multi TD game, so there is certainly something there to be optimistic about.

And even still I'd say 9-7 is competitive, especially since a game losing (ultimately meaningless) Blair Walsh miss removed them from a 10 win season. Team is built to run the ball early, hit big play action passes, and a downhill defense that thrives with a lead. None of that happened and they stubbornly avoided the spread style play which clearly did work, still almost making the playoffs. Again - fix the run game, play action will work again, offense should look like it used to. I realize that's a simplification but the gutting of offensive coaching staff makes me feel there was definite room for improvement there we all were asking for.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Maybe but Young was better at all the things a QB is actually supposed to be able to do.

And he did it before they changed a collection of rules to naturally favor the QB. Young was putting up numbers back when the average QB was throwing for 200yds a game. Wilson is faster, quicker and more elusive but Young was a much better QB.

Young was also good in all 4 quarters, not just the 4th quarters of 1/4 the games.

Wilson could be great and is great in small stretches. But we are reaching a point where we need production to start outweighing potential. Wilson is not consistent.

And I don't think you can expect him to carry the team at all, if we have to strip it down. Then again, we have not seen him with an actual OL but for his first year. So maybe he is like Barry Sanders finally getting a FB and rips off a legendary season.

We will see. But so far, the FO stripping our defense out while giving him a cast of nobodies at TE & WR (besides Baldwin) and making the inevitable spotty draft production - won't make it easy for Wilson to get much help.

I didn't say I expected Russell to carry the team, I simply said as long as he and Allen are here I'm hopeful that we can put another SB caliber team together.

You're the one that compared him to Dave Krieg. Awful comparison, in every way possible, other than they both QB'd the Hawks.

 

[mistaowen]

My eyes! :thumbdown: :throwup:

Wonder which high school will hire him.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Krieg and Russ are in no way even close to each other in the way they play the game. Wow

 

[Seymour]

Our plan - rid team of distractions, get young new players in that wont question Carrolls ways and get 'on board' so to say, free up cash, attempt to run the ball again.

What will actually happen - Carroll will hang it up in a couple years when his contract expires because the Rams and 49ers beat on us and we cant reach the playoffs, Schneider takes his leave also as he continues to reach and miss in the draft, the running game will still blow as will the offensive line and Russ finally gets sidelined with injuries, the defense will be middle of the road.

Could be depressing if it plays out, but also this is based on history of recent events, so I will not argue. I will say there is as good or better of a chance it doesn't play out that way...so I'm not without hope personally even though I won't argue this possibility.

 

[Seymour]

Krieg and Russ are in no way even close to each other in the way they play the game. Wow

Why? Is Kreig 3X the Qb Russ is? :twisted: :twisted: