What does Green Bay have that we don't?

[hburn21]

Green Bay has a much better qb, as simple as that.

 

[RolandDeschain]

You can make a lot of good players look very mediocre with poor scheming and play calling.

 

[keasley45]

To the OP's original post

That said, I would really like to see what Russ could do in an offense that was built and designed around his greatest strengths, but we've never had that with the Hawks. I tend to think in the right offensive system, Russ could possibly be in that elite category.

.

I think that's key. But how do you build an offense around a guy who won't throw the ball when it needs to be thrown, to the receivers that are 'NFL' open, and in rhythm?

Wheres the OC for that guy? Maybe it starts with reestablishing the fundamentals and consistency.

When Russ is off script, he can make plays other qb's can't even dream of. But I swear, he can pull a rabbit out of a hat but then at times seems incapable of doing simple things.

Rodgers doesn't have a weakness. Running game struggling? He can best you with his arm.

Cover the long stuff, he can kill you underneath.

Have a good pass rush? He can be elusive and make the play regardless.

You don't often see him make off throws

And if there's an open guy on the field anywhere, he will find him.

Take away Adams, he will best you with someone you never heard him.

Cover Adams like a blanket. He will get him the ball anyway.

But fundamentally, he knows every shred of the playbook. Whether McCarthy's or LaFleur's. He doesn't miss anything. Rodgers hit every opportunity we missed last week.

And I hate him for all of that.

 

[John63]

To the OP's original post

That said, I would really like to see what Russ could do in an offense that was built and designed around his greatest strengths, but we've never had that with the Hawks. I tend to think in the right offensive system, Russ could possibly be in that elite category.

.

I think that's key. But how do you build an offense around a guy who won't throw the ball when it needs to be thrown, to the receivers that are 'NFL' open, and in rhythm?

Wheres the OC for that guy? Maybe it starts with reestablishing the fundamentals and consistency.

When Russ is off script, he can make plays other qb's can't even dream of. But I swear, he can pull a rabbit out of a hat but then at times seems incapable of doing simple things.

Rodgers doesn't have a weakness. Running game struggling? He can best you with his arm.

Cover the long stuff, he can kill you underneath.

Have a good pass rush? He can be elusive and make the play regardless.

You don't often see him make off throws

And if there's an open guy on the field anywhere, he will find him.

Take away Adams, he will best you with someone you never heard him.

Cover Adams like a blanket. He will get him the ball anyway.

But fundamentally, he knows every shred of the playbook. Whether McCarthy's or LaFleur's. He doesn't miss anything. Rodgers hit every opportunity we missed last week.

And I hate him for all of that.

And yet a few shortbread ago everyone thought he was done Rodgers that is hmmm.

 

[TraderGary]

To the OP's original post

That said, I would really like to see what Russ could do in an offense that was built and designed around his greatest strengths, but we've never had that with the Hawks. I tend to think in the right offensive system, Russ could possibly be in that elite category.

.

I think that's key. But how do you build an offense around a guy who won't throw the ball when it needs to be thrown, to the receivers that are 'NFL' open, and in rhythm?

Wheres the OC for that guy? Maybe it starts with reestablishing the fundamentals and consistency.

When Russ is off script, he can make plays other qb's can't even dream of. But I swear, he can pull a rabbit out of a hat but then at times seems incapable of doing simple things.

Rodgers doesn't have a weakness. Running game struggling? He can best you with his arm.

Cover the long stuff, he can kill you underneath.

Have a good pass rush? He can be elusive and make the play regardless.

You don't often see him make off throws

And if there's an open guy on the field anywhere, he will find him.

Take away Adams, he will best you with someone you never heard him.

Cover Adams like a blanket. He will get him the ball anyway.

But fundamentally, he knows every shred of the playbook. Whether McCarthy's or LaFleur's. He doesn't miss anything. Rodgers hit every opportunity we missed last week.

And I hate him for all of that.

That's a fair and very good question Keasley. I could be wrong, but I honestly don't recall Russ consistently ignoring wide open receivers in the short and intermediate routes the way he did this past season. It's almost as if there's some sort of mental block. Is he so intent on making the big splash plays that he completely ignores the underneath routes, or is he concentrating so hard on the receivers running the deep routes that he's just not seeing those open receivers underneath?

Obviously none of us know the answer to that, but everyone knows Pete loves the deep ball so is it a matter of Pete getting in Wilson's head? I'm certain Pete is not telling Russ to ignore the shorter stuff if the deeper routes are not open, but for whatever reason, Russ seems ultra focused on the splash plays, almost to the point of tunnel vision.

Regardless what the reasons are, clearly he has regressed this year. Did he just all of a sudden forget how to read defenses? Can he not spot open receivers any longer within the scope of the offense? Does it have something to do with being gun shy from all the hits he's taken over the years behind a less than stellar OL that he doesn't feel like he has time to scan the field for an open receiver? Or is it because Pete is in his subconscious to the point that Russ is afraid of making a mistake?

After 9 years in the league and 3 years working with Schotty, Russ should have a sixth sense of where every receiver is going to be on every play. Particularly someone like Wilson who always preaches preparation. And if he's reading the defense properly, he should have a pretty good idea where the openings are going to be in the zones before the ball is snapped, and who's likely to be open based on that defense. And yet he seems completely lost at times, and it has really stood out this past season more than any other that I can recall.

Whatever his issues are, I think they're coachable. Whoever they bring in as the new OC needs to get him refocused. I tend to believe that once Pete reeled him in mid season after all the turnovers, Russ lost some of his focus, confidence, and maybe even some of his drive.

The new OC along with the QB coach need to work with him extensively in the offseason and get him refocused and back on track. Their main focal points need to be his ability to see the entire field, and taking what the defense is giving you. Making quick decisions and getting the ball out. Taking the easy 1st downs vs trying to constantly make the hero play.

And whoever the OC is needs to design an offense that takes advantage of Wilson's unique skillset. If they want to run the ball more, that's fine. But how about being a little more creative than running the same two rushing plays over and over again. And while they're at it, how about more bootlegs and moving the pocket, particularly when our OL can't keep the rush out of Wilson's face for more than 2 seconds. Moving Russ out of the pocket puts a hell of a lot more pressure on the opposing defenses. Take advantage of that. And let's run more stretch plays. Make the defenses defend the entire width of the field. And how about a route tree that actually schemes receivers open on 3rd downs. Our 3rd down efficiency is laughable if it wasn't so frustrating.

I got off track a little, but I firmly believe whatever Wilson's issues were this year are fixable with the right coaching and the proper schemes. But Pete needs to stay the hell out of the way if that's even possible, which is why I want someone like Pederson. I seriously doubt he would put up with Pete's micromanaging.

 

[TraderGary]

Here's another thought I hope our new OC will address. We were blessed that a beast like DK fell into our laps and he had a great year by any receiver's standards. But there were times this past season when he was completely ignored in our offense. How about finding more creative ways to get him the ball and take advantage of the amazing weapon we were so fortunate to land. Even given the great year he had, I would argue that he was underutilized, particularly later in the season.

And here's a novel idea. How about actually scheming to our opponents weaknesses, you know, kind of like the other 31 teams in the league do? I'm sure we do that to some degree, but Pete pretty much says, "this is what we're going to do, now try and stop us". No wonder Donald said they were hoping to get the Seahawks in the playoffs. It's because they knew exactly what we were going to do on both sides of the ball. That makes the opposing teams job so much easier from the coaches on down.

These things would help someone like Russ not only succeed, but actually excel, given the proper scheme.

But back to the point of the original OP's question. Is Russ in the same league as Rodgers? Definitely not, at least not at this time. He has some issues to sort out, but that being said, he is definitely not the only one to blame. I would argue that the coaches are not putting the players in the best position to succeed, and that includes RW. But the fact that Russ is not taking the easy completions the defenses are giving him is definitely troubling and that needs to be addressed.

 

[OrangeGravy]

To the OP's original post

That said, I would really like to see what Russ could do in an offense that was built and designed around his greatest strengths, but we've never had that with the Hawks. I tend to think in the right offensive system, Russ could possibly be in that elite category.

.

I think that's key. But how do you build an offense around a guy who won't throw the ball when it needs to be thrown, to the receivers that are 'NFL' open, and in rhythm?

Wheres the OC for that guy? Maybe it starts with reestablishing the fundamentals and consistency.

When Russ is off script, he can make plays other qb's can't even dream of. But I swear, he can pull a rabbit out of a hat but then at times seems incapable of doing simple things.

Rodgers doesn't have a weakness. Running game struggling? He can best you with his arm.

Cover the long stuff, he can kill you underneath.

Have a good pass rush? He can be elusive and make the play regardless.

You don't often see him make off throws

And if there's an open guy on the field anywhere, he will find him.

Take away Adams, he will best you with someone you never heard him.

Cover Adams like a blanket. He will get him the ball anyway.

But fundamentally, he knows every shred of the playbook. Whether McCarthy's or LaFleur's. He doesn't miss anything. Rodgers hit every opportunity we missed last week.

And I hate him for all of that.

That's a fair and very good question Keasley. I could be wrong, but I honestly don't recall Russ consistently ignoring wide open receivers in the short and intermediate routes the way he did this past season. It's almost as if there's some sort of mental block. Is he so intent on making the big splash plays that he completely ignores the underneath routes, or is he concentrating so hard on the receivers running the deep routes that he's just not seeing those open receivers underneath?

Obviously none of us know the answer to that, but everyone knows Pete loves the deep ball so is it a matter of Pete getting in Wilson's head? I'm certain Pete is not telling Russ to ignore the shorter stuff if the deeper routes are not open, but for whatever reason, Russ seems ultra focused on the splash plays, almost to the point of tunnel vision.

Regardless what the reasons are, clearly he has regressed this year. Did he just all of a sudden forget how to read defenses? Can he not spot open receivers any longer within the scope of the offense? Does it have something to do with being gun shy from all the hits he's taken over the years behind a less than stellar OL that he doesn't feel like he has time to scan the field for an open receiver? Or is it because Pete is in his subconscious to the point that Russ is afraid of making a mistake?

After 9 years in the league and 3 years working with Schotty, Russ should have a sixth sense of where every receiver is going to be on every play. Particularly someone like Wilson who always preaches preparation. And if he's reading the defense properly, he should have a pretty good idea where the openings are going to be in the zones before the ball is snapped, and who's likely to be open based on that defense. And yet he seems completely lost at times, and it has really stood out this past season more than any other that I can recall.

Whatever his issues are, I think they're coachable. Whoever they bring in as the new OC needs to get him refocused. I tend to believe that once Pete reeled him in mid season after all the turnovers, Russ lost some of his focus, confidence, and maybe even some of his drive.

The new OC along with the QB coach need to work with him extensively in the offseason and get him refocused and back on track. Their main focal points need to be his ability to see the entire field, and taking what the defense is giving you. Making quick decisions and getting the ball out. Taking the easy 1st downs vs trying to constantly make the hero play.

And whoever the OC is needs to design an offense that takes advantage of Wilson's unique skillset. If they want to run the ball more, that's fine. But how about being a little more creative than running the same two rushing plays over and over again. And while they're at it, how about more bootlegs and moving the pocket, particularly when our OL can't keep the rush out of Wilson's face for more than 2 seconds. Moving Russ out of the pocket puts a hell of a lot more pressure on the opposing defenses. Take advantage of that. And let's run more stretch plays. Make the defenses defend the entire width of the field. And how about a route tree that actually schemes receivers open on 3rd downs. Our 3rd down efficiency is laughable if it wasn't so frustrating.

I got off track a little, but I firmly believe whatever Wilson's issues were this year are fixable with the right coaching and the proper schemes. But Pete needs to stay the hell out of the way if that's even possible, which is why I want someone like Pederson. I seriously doubt he would put up with Pete's micromanaging.

No matter the reason that Russ is missing/ignoring open guys, they all come down to being his problem. If he's suddenly gun shy because Pete got in his ear, then he doesn't have what it takes to be a great QB anymore. There is zero chance of him getting pulled out of a game unless he went full melt down or got hurt, so no fear of that. There is literally no good excuse for him to miss those reads that isn't attributable to his own inability to execute in some facet of the position on a particular play.

 

[Tokadub]

So here is thing. Not long ago everyone thought Rodgers was done. He was playing bad. Then they invested in oline, rbs, new HC and new system. A system that is built for Rodgers. So let's see Rodgers has

A better oline
Bettwr system


Those 2 things alone give him the edge. Put Rodgers on our team in our system he us no were near were as good as he is now. That's not to say if everything us equal he is or is not better than Wilson. Just that we can't know as the variables are not the same.

I'm not sure about that. We might of had a chance to win the super bowl with Aaron Rodgers. He is clearly the best considering Mahomes offensive options.

Thats not a slam on Wilson saying he is worst than maybe the best QB of all time...

Wilson looked REALLY bad compared to Rodgers vs the Rams... some of that was offensive line, but not all of it...

I dont think Schotty was the problem, I thought Bevell was... that scares me about this teams future...

Another difference is we are paying wayyy too much to a few players. We need to cut the overpaid boys and rebuild so we can look strong like these other playoff teams, we looked pathetic in comparison to almost every playoff team just based on the eyeball test.

 

[AgentDib]

We might of had a chance to win the super bowl with Aaron Rodgers. He is clearly the best considering Mahomes offensive options. Thats not a slam on Wilson saying he is worst than maybe the best QB of all time...

We might have had a better chance with Rodgers, and I agree that posters getting touchy about that are too sensitive. We did have a chance to win the Super Bowl with Russ though.

Imagine for a second that we were talking about baseball, where fans tend to have a strong underlying grasp of probability. If we lost a game to another team and were looking for explanations, the very first thing that everybody would point out is that perhaps the other team just played better that day. Everybody accepts the idea that baseball players will go through slumps and hot streaks. A baseball player on a hot streak can still go 0-4 in a crucial game due to randomness and fans largely accept that.

In contrast, in this thread posters are comparing two games (Rams@GB vs. Rams@Seattle), and not one person has even mentioned that maybe the Packers played better/Rams played worse or that the Hawks played worse/Rams played better. NFL fans get hung up on this weird version of determinism where what they saw had to have happened for specific reasons and so they commit the narrative fallacy trying to completely explain any differences. It's worth talking about all of those factors but posters shouldn't overlook the huge and obvious one; maybe the team just played better/worse on that given game and perhaps some bounces didn't go their way.

The Hawks absolutely could have played better against the Rams and won. In a way, that's what makes losing worse.

 

[Mad Dog]

What Green Bay had over the Seahawks was a Bye. Teams with the bye have an incredible advantage in the Divisional round.

And also Rodgers to Adams is more potent than Wilson to Lockett.

 

[Dallashawksfan]

Rodgers is a smidge better but the packers coaching is way better.

Rodgers is a lot better

 

[John63]

Rodgers is a smidge better but the packers coaching is way better.

Rodgers is a lot better

The facts say otherwise.