The great 2014 Russell Wilson Colin Kaepernick debate

[HansGruber]

Kaepernick has started in 32 regular season games. Wilson tied the rookie season td record, he didn't break it. But back to numbers. Statistically kaepernick and wilsons numbers are very close this season. Yes Wilson's are better but they are too close to call Wilson a "superior" qb. Wilson was also sacked more and had more turnovers. So again my assessment is they are equals at this point in there careers.

Were you saying Kaepernick HASN'T started in 32 regular games? Oh contraire, mon frere. In fact, he has. He has started in just as many games as Wilson. You don't have to take my word. Go to nfl.com and see for yourself.

And what is with your argument? You are proven wrong in the very method you requested, and yet you persist with this failed argument. Why?

And since you have chosen to stray from pure fact and into conjecture, why does only Kaepernick benefit from assumptions and conjecture?

Russell Wilson has a drastically inferior offensive line, and spent most of the season behind backups, including a 7th round draft pick rookie and guys who are no longer starters, at the most important points on the line. Do you think maybe that had something to do with sacks and turnovers? Why no benefit of the doubt there?

Face the facts - if Wilson was lucky enough to play behind SF's line, with receivers like Crabtree and Boldin and Davis, he'd be lighting up the league and there is ZERO chance he'd have lost that SuperBowl.

You know it, I know it, the entire NFL knows it, and yet here we are debating something.... not sure what... but something.

Why?

 

[hawkfannj]

Kaepernick has started in 32 regular season games. Wilson tied the rookie season td record, he didn't break it. But back to numbers. Statistically kaepernick and wilsons numbers are very close this season. Yes Wilson's are better but they are too close to call Wilson a "superior" qb. Wilson was also sacked more and had more turnovers. So again my assessment is they are equals at this point in there careers.

Were you saying Kaepernick HASN'T started in 32 regular games? Oh contraire, mon frere. In fact, he has. He has started in just as many games as Wilson. You don't have to take my word. Go to nfl.com and see for yourself.

And what is with your argument? You are proven wrong in the very method you requested, and yet you persist with this failed argument. Why?

And since you have chosen to stray from pure fact and into conjecture, why does only Kaepernick benefit from assumptions and conjecture?

Russell Wilson has a drastically inferior offensive line, and spent most of the season behind backups, including a 7th round draft pick rookie and a guy who's no longer on the team. Do you think maybe that had something to do with sacks and turnovers? Why no benefit of the doubt there?

Face the facts - if Wilson was lucky enough to play behind SF's line, with receivers like Crabtree and Boldin and Davis, he'd be lighting up the league and there is ZERO chance he'd have lost that SuperBowl.

You know it, I know it, the entire NFL knows it, and yet here we are debating the opposite. Huh???

How dare you call our O line inferior . :sarcasm_on:

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

I just think hawkfannj wanted to be fiesty for some reason tonight that I can't figure out yet. It must be part of some CUNNING PLAN.

 

[hawkfannj]

I'm board just trying to get some good debate going. Not you suck because you bad mouth the Seahawks crap.
No diabolical plan not that smart to think ahead
There are winners and losers and tonight obviously I was wrong on the Wilson stats but that's about it

 

[paramedic586]

Kaepernick has started in 32 regular season games. Wilson tied the rookie season td record, he didn't break it. But back to numbers. Statistically kaepernick and wilsons numbers are very close this season. Yes Wilson's are better but they are too close to call Wilson a "superior" qb. Wilson was also sacked more and had more turnovers. So again my assessment is they are equals at this point in there careers.

Were you saying Kaepernick HASN'T started in 32 regular games? Oh contraire, mon frere. In fact, he has. He has started in just as many games as Wilson. You don't have to take my word. Go to nfl.com and see for yourself.

And what is with your argument? You are proven wrong in the very method you requested, and yet you persist with this failed argument. Why?

And since you have chosen to stray from pure fact and into conjecture, why does only Kaepernick benefit from assumptions and conjecture?

Russell Wilson has a drastically inferior offensive line, and spent most of the season behind backups, including a 7th round draft pick rookie and guys who are no longer starters, at the most important points on the line. Do you think maybe that had something to do with sacks and turnovers? Why no benefit of the doubt there?

Face the facts - if Wilson was lucky enough to play behind SF's line, with receivers like Crabtree and Boldin and Davis, he'd be lighting up the league and there is ZERO chance he'd have lost that SuperBowl.

You know it, I know it, the entire NFL knows it, and yet here we are debating something.... not sure what... but something.

Why?

No kaepernick has not started in 32 regular season games. He didn't start until week 11 last year. So your using stats for games that he didn't play the whole game. So again kaepernick stats are very close to Wilson's this year. Shoot you posted the stats. Yes Wilson did better then kaepernick statistically this year. But not by much. Again I stand by original assessment that Wilson didn't do anything to show that he is far better the kaepernick.

 

[paramedic586]

And Boldin wasn't on our team last year. So he wasn't there for that Super Bowl. Kap also threw for 302 yards a td and int. and a rushing td. That is not exactly a bad performance.

 

[HansGruber]

And Boldin wasn't on our team last year. So he wasn't there for that Super Bowl. Kap also threw for 302 yards a td and int. and a rushing td. That is not exactly a bad performance.

OK now I get it. I've been talking to SF fans. That figures.

Keep telling yourselves that Kaepernick is as good as Wilson. I'll just kick back and enjoy watching your joke of a QB run off the field with his chin on his chest, before the game clock even expires, refusing to shake hands. That Kaepernick sure is a classy dude.

LOL.

And by the way, when your QB has a better O-line, better receivers and an offense full of high 1st round picks, it's not quite bragging material to say he's statistically still not as good as Wilson but close. ROTFL. 49er fans are so pathetic.

 

[Hasselbeck]

If Micah Hyde could catch a pass that should have been returned for a touchdown, Kaepernick is really cast in a different light right now.

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

I'll just leave this here, it was my reply to a post in the thread ranking the 4 remaining NFC QBs.

Well he is about dead least in the league in completion percentage. Only Eli Manning and Geno Smith were worse this season.

And kap and Wilson are near identical in almost all their stats this year. Seattle is has the best defense and number one seed in the NFC. That is why RW is ranked number one.

Superficially, you have a decent argument but Wilson is still slightly better overall.


KAEPERNICK...........VS...................WILSON

36th Pick, 2011...(DRAFT)...75th Pick, 2012
3 Years...........(EXPERIENCE)...........2 Years
27................(TOTAL STARTS)..................34
6'5......................(HEIGHT)......................5'11
233.....................(WEIGHT).....................205

416.............(PASS ATTEMPTS)...............407 (-11)
58.4...............(COMPLETION %)..............63.1 (+4.7)
3197.............(PASSING YARDS)............3357 (+160)
7.7 ...............(YARDS PER ATT.).............8.2 (+0.5)

20..................(TOUCHDOWNS)................26 (+6)
08..................(INTERCEPTIONS)..............09 (+1)
39..................(TIMES SACKED)................44 (+5)
91.6.................(QB RATING)...............101.2 (+9.6)

92................(RUSH ATTEMPTS)..............96 (+4)
524..............(RUSHING YARDS).............539 (+15)
5.7............(YARDS PER CARRY).............5.6 (-0.1)
4...................(RUSHING TDS)......................1 (-3)
6.......................(FUMBLES).........................6
4..................(FUMBLES LOST)....................3 (-1)

13-4................('13 W-L RECORD)............13-3 (-1 Loss)
3 ..............(4TH QTR COMEBACKS)..............3
4 ............(GAME WINNING DRIVES).............4


However, surgically speaking, you couldn''t be more wrong.

1. Seahawks and 49ers played 14 of the same defenses in 2013. One could argue that:

NYG D + MINN D > GB D + WASH D

2. Both teams had stellar Rushing Offenses + Shutdown Defenses. Its not just one or the other, both teams have similar systems.

3. Tarvaris Jackson has seen more playing time than Colt McCoy. Jackson has 13 attempts to McCoy's 1. T-Jack also has a passing TD and rushing TD

4 . The Deal Breaker: Missed Games per Offensive Units

Starting O-Line
SFO: 1 Starter Missed 4 Games (5%) (Next Man Up: 9 year Vet w/ 87 career starts)
SEA: 4 Starters Missed 20 Games (25%) (NMU: 2013 7th Round Rookie)

WRs/TEs:
SFO: 37 Games
Crabtree (11), Manningham (10), Patton (10), Davis (1), McDonald (1), Celek (4)

SEA: 42 Games
Harvin (15), Rice (8), Kearse (1), Miller(2), McCoy (16)

RBs/FBs:
SF0: 8 Missed Games (James, 6 + Miller, 2)
SEA: 25 Missed Games (M-Rob, 7 + Coleman, 4 + Ware, 14)

Total Missed Games:
SFO: 49 Games
SEA: 87 Games (+38)


Keep grasping at straws, San Fran.

 

[HansGruber]

Again I stand by original assessment that Wilson didn't do anything to show that he is far better the kaepernick.

You mean, other than help Seattle win the #1 NFC seed, win the division, put up record-breaking stats, all while playing behind a garbage patchwork O-line, with both of his best receivers injured the majority of the year?

OK, sure.

 

[hawkfan68]

Wilson cmp% 63.1 pyd 3357 ptd 26
Kap. Cmp% 58.4. Pyd 3197 ptd 21

As per espn go

All that proves is that Wilson is better. What statistics you should be using are Keapernick's road statistics versus Wilson's home statistics...if you want to be taken seriously that is? Oh yeah QBR is a useless mishmash of a made up statistic to put it mildly.

Spot on. Great point!

 

[Marvin49]

This argument can go on all day. There is no answer.

Wilson has been better this year playing with better WRs for most of the year (because of injuries to Crab and Vernon) but a depleted offensive line. Kap has been better recently with his weapons back.

In all honesly I think Wilson is a more polished passer. Kap has crazy upside potential.

49er fans are going to like Kap. Seahawk fans are going to like Wilson. Both fanbases have every reason to think their guy is better.

Can we just leave it at that?

 

[PatsFanNH]

Outisders view of the 2 QB's:

Wilson -- Good QB, plays smart and within himself and doesnt turn the ball over. (Reminds me of a Young Brady) Still do not think he has the talent around him in the receiver position. (But again my opinion.) See him being considered a top 4 QB when the old guys retire (IE Brady,Manning,Brees)

Kap -- amazing arm stregth, uses his legs when needed, IMO still doesnt have the touch pass down as it appears he guns every throw in. He reminds me of M Vick, if Vick knew how to throw the ball as well as run.

BOTH have stout D's and basically play not to screw it up for the defense. IMO Wilson right now better than Kap, but it is close. (is this the new Brady v Manning thing?)

 

[StoneCold]

come on man...this is made by a Hawks fan. There are plenty of pics of Kap just like Wilson's pics.

What is this TMZ?

They are both good QB's who cares about instagram lol

I'm no Kap fan but someone just sent me this article to show the other side of that instagram.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-s...comparison-is-totally-off-base-182213225.html

That is an awesome article and I got a little choked up. I really liked the picture where the girls are teaching Kaep how to read. Very sweet.

SC

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

This argument can go on all day. There is no answer.

Wilson has been better this year playing with better WRs for most of the year (because of injuries to Crab and Vernon) but a depleted offensive line. Kap has been better recently with his weapons back.

In all honesly I think Wilson is a more polished passer. Kap has crazy upside potential.

49er fans are going to like Kap. Seahawk fans are going to like Wilson. Both fanbases have every reason to think their guy is better.

Can we just leave it at that?

Yeah, no.

Starting O-Line
SFO: 1 Starter Missed 4 Games (5%) (Next Man Up: 9 year Vet w/ 87 career starts)

SEA: 4 Starters Missed 20 Games (25%) (NMU: 2013 7th Round Rookie)

This is a considerable difference, and huge part why Wilson is better, he put up better numbers than Kaep despite playing behind a crappy O-Line.

What does it say about Kaep that your O-Line was relatively healthy and is generally considered the best in the game but still gave up 39 sacks. 4/5th of your line started all 16 games. The next man up was Adam Snyder a guy who started 87 games, most of which with San Fran.

Seahawks O-Line got dominated all season in pass protection but only gave up 5 more than San Fran's. Not one offensive lineman started all 16 games. 4 were due to injury, the 5th saw McQuistan and Carpenter compete for starts at LG. Which happens to be the starting position of one Michael Bowie, who is now the Seahawks LG moving forward. Bowie is the Seahawks Next Man Up andhen he came into NFL back in April 2013, he was a 21 year old rookie.

WRs/TEs:
SFO: 37 Games
Crabtree (11), Manningham (10), Patton (10), Davis (1), McDonald (1), Celek (4)

SEA: 42 Games
Harvin (15), Rice (8), Kearse (1), Miller(2), McCoy (16)

All this talk about Crabtree and Davis? SF's two highest paid WRs missed 11 games.

Seahawks two highest paid WRs missed 23 games not to mention Harvin's impact on Special Teams as well. Not only that Rice probably started the season at 80% due to a bum knee, and in the 8 games he played before his season ending injury, he regressed to about 60%. Rice had his moments but is was too few and far between, he wasn't effective, his deep speed was non-existant, he couldnt make clean cuts out of his breaks, and lost a lot of his jumping ability. Part of the reason he eventually lost his snaps to Jermaine Kearse even before being IRd.

Also, you have a bad argument when you say a 5'11, 210 pound QB, whose two most productive WRs are 5'10, 200 pounds and 5'11, 190 pounds with an accumulative of 7 years of NFL EXPERIENCE.

Over a guy who is 6'5, 235 pounds who has a 6'1 220 pound WR and
a 6'5, 250 pound WR to throw to because that's all V. Davis is... a really big WR and even at 250 pounds he has legit 4.4 speed. Boldin and Davis accumulative NFL EXP = 17 years.


Vernon Davis missed 1 start and was banged up in a few others. Zach Miller missed 2 starts and was banged up in a few others.

RBs/FBs:
SF0: 8 Missed Games (James, 6 + Miller, 2)
SEA: 25 Missed Games (M-Rob, 7 + Coleman, 4 + Ware, 14)

James is the 3rd string RB, not much of a loss? Miller's lost is important, he's a monster blocker and Kaep's safety valve pre Crabtree but that was 2 games in the Regular Season.

Michael Robinson was a leader of this team since 2010, Marshawn Lynch refers to M-Rob as "his eyes", has been a Pro Bowl FB... Him missing the chance on the initial roster plus 7 games off our squad due to being sick the absolute low moment of the Seahawks season.

Total Missed Games: SFO: 49 Games SEA: 87 Games (+38)

So you 49er fans need to get off that Kaepernick/Wilson were basically equals. Not even, Kaepernick has more physical talent yet WILSON is the one putting up the better numbers despite enduring an injury situation that was much much worse than the one San Fran had to go through.

 

[willyum]

Offensive line is most important to a QB's success, more so than WRs. People forget 49ers have an excellent offensive line that Harbaugh started grooming and building ever since he first arrived in SF. Seattles o-line has been banged up severely, and yet Wilson has still put up good statistics and managed to win.

This article about Kap is also pretty intersting: http://mmqb.si.com/2014/01/15/colin-kae ... sco-49ers/

 

[13thMan]

I applaud those who aren't afraid to state their own and true (genuine) opinions... I am embarrassed for those who can't handle it and get all butt hurt.

The insecurity reigns supreme once again.... Yikes.

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

To be honest,

Colin Kaepernick is a fairly decent human being with a different make-up and upbringing from Wilson.

Wilson is mature beyond his years twice fold than most young people at Russ' age, doesn't mean Kaep can enjoy the best years of his life, in the way he wants to and is accustomed to.

Colin Kaepernick also has tremendous potential to be a great QB in this league, much more potential than Wilson because of Kaepernicks physical measures + athleticism is much greater than Wilsons.

However, Wilson is the better QB, right now, in the last two years, he's done better than any QB as ever done in his first two years and he did it as a 5'11, 210 pound QB but Wilson's potential is somewhat limited physically but you can.always expect him to be consistent mentally because of it.