Russell Wilson is Elite | I'm Putting the Nail in the Coffin

[Sox-n-Hawks]

I'll fully admit that he produces like them. I can't find you the numbers of man vs zone, because they don't exist. I did analysis of 4 games from 2015 and 6 games from 2017 in a similar debate, and found that the percentage of the time that we actually saw zone was wayyy different than the PFF statisticians said that we saw zone. So I would have to watch 4 seasons myself and chart every play to get you that analysis.

You know elite QB play when you see it. We've seen plenty of elite QB's over the years. Against zone, elite QB's can often make it look easy. They hit their back foot, ball comes out, quite often. Do we ever really see that? How many times in Russ' career has a commentator noticed that he manipulates a defender with his eyes, or that he has set defenders up? He can do it against man-1, but that's really about it. If you're not going to go back and look at the all-22, while you're watching the next game, try to figure out what coverage the other team is in pre-snap. IF you think they're in zone, watch what happens.

He might be an elite player, I'm not saying there are many guys I'd rather have, but to make a claim that he is an elite passer is a little baffling.

Second highest career passer rating ALL TIME. Not baffling at all.


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Here we go again with passer rating.

Then refute it. Quit hating on a guy who produces and wins. Consistently. He is a phenomenal athlete with a work ethic that surpasses his peers. He puts his preparation to the test every weekend and wins. If you don’t like that kind of QB, then go root for the Raiders. I’ll take RW over any other QB in the league. Period.


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[Flyingsquad23]

Just some data for the conversation. I personally like the games started stat, the epitome of consistency.

 

[Tical21]

I'll fully admit that he produces like them. I can't find you the numbers of man vs zone, because they don't exist. I did analysis of 4 games from 2015 and 6 games from 2017 in a similar debate, and found that the percentage of the time that we actually saw zone was wayyy different than the PFF statisticians said that we saw zone. So I would have to watch 4 seasons myself and chart every play to get you that analysis.

You know elite QB play when you see it. We've seen plenty of elite QB's over the years. Against zone, elite QB's can often make it look easy. They hit their back foot, ball comes out, quite often. Do we ever really see that? How many times in Russ' career has a commentator noticed that he manipulates a defender with his eyes, or that he has set defenders up? He can do it against man-1, but that's really about it. If you're not going to go back and look at the all-22, while you're watching the next game, try to figure out what coverage the other team is in pre-snap. IF you think they're in zone, watch what happens.

He might be an elite player, I'm not saying there are many guys I'd rather have, but to make a claim that he is an elite passer is a little baffling.

Second highest career passer rating ALL TIME. Not baffling at all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Here we go again with passer rating.

Then refute it. Quit hating on a guy who produces and wins. Consistently. He is a phenomenal athlete with a work ethic that surpasses his peers. He puts his preparation to the test every weekend and wins. If you don’t like that kind of QB, then go root for the Raiders. I’ll take RW over any other QB in the league. Period.


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I believe I already have, if you read up. Against the Rams, he had his second highest rating of the season, despite playing relatively poorly. His game is engineered to look elevated in the passer rating stat. The best stat he has going for him is YPA. His completion percentage was below Tyrod last year.

I'm not hating on him at all. He's fantastic. He has found ways time after time to make plays. There are very few QB's I would rather have, but to put him in the same air as Brees, Brady or Ben just isn't justified. There are just too many things that those guys can do relatively easily, that he really struggles with. For his behalf, those guys have received far superior coaching. Russell was asked to sprint before he ever nailed down the fundamentals of crawling. I'm really interested to see if this back-to-basics approach we are instituting on offense is going to fill in a lot of those gaps. I think it's kind of working. Anticipation, particularly against zone, and even still against man, still has a long ways to go.

 

[Sox-n-Hawks]

Dude, if you think putting up 31 points on the rams and almost beating them is bad, you’re delusional. That loss wasn’t because of offensive production at all..


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[Fade]

I'll fully admit that he produces like them. I can't find you the numbers of man vs zone, because they don't exist. I did analysis of 4 games from 2015 and 6 games from 2017 in a similar debate, and found that the percentage of the time that we actually saw zone was wayyy different than the PFF statisticians said that we saw zone. So I would have to watch 4 seasons myself and chart every play to get you that analysis.

You know elite QB play when you see it. We've seen plenty of elite QB's over the years. Against zone, elite QB's can often make it look easy. They hit their back foot, ball comes out, quite often. Do we ever really see that? How many times in Russ' career has a commentator noticed that he manipulates a defender with his eyes, or that he has set defenders up? He can do it against man-1, but that's really about it. If you're not going to go back and look at the all-22, while you're watching the next game, try to figure out what coverage the other team is in pre-snap. IF you think they're in zone, watch what happens.

He might be an elite player, I'm not saying there are many guys I'd rather have, but to make a claim that he is an elite passer is a little baffling.

You know elite systems, when you see it.

Look I know what you mean Tical and totally understand where you are coming from. Brees, Brady, Rivers etc. those types are superior to him in that one area. He isn't going to sit back in the pocket the whole game, and pick apart a zone as good as those guys. He doesn't posses the quick trigger those guys have, he doesn't process it as quickly.

I think a lot of that boils down to being stuck in Pete's system with Bevell. I am fairly confident had he been drafted by Andy Reed as an example he would be far more advanced in this area.

(See Goff w/Fisher --> w/McVay) (See Trubisky w/Fox -> w/Nagy).

Coaching plays a huge factor in this. The Pete Carroll -> don't turn it over (don't take unnecessary risks)

Because when Wilson is let off the leash when they have no choice but to throw or lose the game. He is otherworldly statistically. 4th qtr comebacks, and game winning drives. You do not put any stock into that?

And there is also a flip side to that coin.

Those statues don't possess the running production, and the ability to play behind Cable O-Lines and be an escape artist on a consistent basis for six seasons. Yes, they would've helped mitigate the damage at times, with quicker decision making, but in the end they would have died, or retired. It was unsustainable. Wilson was so damn amazing Carroll naively stuck with the fable that was Cable for far too long because he was performing at high level despite the dumpster fire. WILSON KEPT CABLE & BEVELL EMPLOYED, that is how good he was/is.

Brady & Brees are not the same players when under pressure. Wilson isn't either, but he some how found / finds a way to produce in spite of it, and keep up with those guys. That does not impress you? These guys that you deem so amazing in well oiled machine offensive systems. Yet there is Wilson hanging with them, and rushing for 1700 yards in the process.

Watch Derek Carr two-three years ago when he had a great O-Line, many were considering him for MVP. Now he has been Cable'd. It didn't stop Wilson for 6 years.

Look at Newton's numbers outside of when he played behind the #2 O-Line. Look at Matt Ryan's numbers when he didn't have strong O-Lines. Look at Luck outside of this year. These guys could not survive for 6 seasons under that kind of duress (Luck already proved that). Wilson didn't only survive, he thrived and produced at a high level.

Brady & Brees production goes down playing behind Cable O-Lines than their current situation. Wilson's production would go up playing with Payton or McDaniel in that situation. It went up with Schottenhiemer who isn't a savant when it comes to the passing game.

Wilson is the one being handicapped here.

Yet he finds a way to statistically keep up. He belongs in the group.

PS Ben Roethlisbeger is a fraud.

 

[Hawkpower]

I'll fully admit that he produces like them. I can't find you the numbers of man vs zone, because they don't exist. I did analysis of 4 games from 2015 and 6 games from 2017 in a similar debate, and found that the percentage of the time that we actually saw zone was wayyy different than the PFF statisticians said that we saw zone. So I would have to watch 4 seasons myself and chart every play to get you that analysis.

You know elite QB play when you see it. We've seen plenty of elite QB's over the years. Against zone, elite QB's can often make it look easy. They hit their back foot, ball comes out, quite often. Do we ever really see that? How many times in Russ' career has a commentator noticed that he manipulates a defender with his eyes, or that he has set defenders up? He can do it against man-1, but that's really about it. If you're not going to go back and look at the all-22, while you're watching the next game, try to figure out what coverage the other team is in pre-snap. IF you think they're in zone, watch what happens.

He might be an elite player, I'm not saying there are many guys I'd rather have, but to make a claim that he is an elite passer is a little baffling.

Second highest career passer rating ALL TIME. Not baffling at all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Here we go again with passer rating.

Then refute it. Quit hating on a guy who produces and wins. Consistently. He is a phenomenal athlete with a work ethic that surpasses his peers. He puts his preparation to the test every weekend and wins. If you don’t like that kind of QB, then go root for the Raiders. I’ll take RW over any other QB in the league. Period.


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Again with the "hating" every time a criticism is brought up.

This is football forum where we discuss things like our most important players strengths and weaknesses.

Saying Russ has a weakness or 2 is not hating. Many guys here acknowledges there are only a handful of QB's who are better than Russ. And that's FINE. Geez he doesn't have to be the best QB in the league for us to appreciate him, does he???

East coast fans would die laughing at how fragile some of us are when taking personally a critique of a player. Having lived there, those fans tear their guys apart for much less.

 

[Tical21]

I'll fully admit that he produces like them. I can't find you the numbers of man vs zone, because they don't exist. I did analysis of 4 games from 2015 and 6 games from 2017 in a similar debate, and found that the percentage of the time that we actually saw zone was wayyy different than the PFF statisticians said that we saw zone. So I would have to watch 4 seasons myself and chart every play to get you that analysis.

You know elite QB play when you see it. We've seen plenty of elite QB's over the years. Against zone, elite QB's can often make it look easy. They hit their back foot, ball comes out, quite often. Do we ever really see that? How many times in Russ' career has a commentator noticed that he manipulates a defender with his eyes, or that he has set defenders up? He can do it against man-1, but that's really about it. If you're not going to go back and look at the all-22, while you're watching the next game, try to figure out what coverage the other team is in pre-snap. IF you think they're in zone, watch what happens.

He might be an elite player, I'm not saying there are many guys I'd rather have, but to make a claim that he is an elite passer is a little baffling.

You know elite systems, when you see it.

Look I know what you mean Tical and totally understand where you are coming from. Brees, Brady, Rivers etc. those types are superior to him in that one area. He isn't going to sit back in the pocket the whole game, and pick apart a zone as good as those guys. He doesn't posses the quick trigger those guys have, he doesn't process it as quickly.

I think a lot of that boils down to being stuck in Pete's system with Bevell. I am fairly confident had he been drafted by Andy Reed as an example he would be far more advanced in this area.

(See Goff w/Fisher --> w/McVay) (See Trubisky w/Fox -> w/Nagy).

Coaching plays a huge factor in this. The Pete Carroll -> don't turn it over (don't take unnecessary risks)

Because when Wilson is let off the leash when they have no choice but to throw or lose the game. He is otherworldly statistically. 4th qtr comebacks, and game winning drives. You do not put any stock into that?

And there is also a flip side to that coin.

Those statues don't possess the running production, and the ability to play behind Cable O-Lines and be an escape artist on a consistent basis for six seasons. Yes, they would've helped mitigate the damage at times, with quicker decision making, but in the end they would have died, or retired. It was unsustainable. Wilson was so damn amazing Carroll naively stuck with the fable that was Cable for far too long because he was performing at high level despite the dumpster fire. WILSON KEPT CABLE & BEVELL EMPLOYED, that is how good he was/is.

Brady & Brees are not the same players when under pressure. Wilson isn't either, but he some how found / finds a way to produce in spite of it, and keep up with those guys. That does not impress you? These guys that you deem so amazing in well oiled machine offensive systems. Yet there is Wilson hanging with them, and rushing for 1700 yards in the process.

Watch Derek Carr two-three years ago when he had a great O-Line, many were considering him for MVP. Now he has been Cable'd. It didn't stop Wilson for 6 years.

Look at Newton's numbers outside of when he played behind the #2 O-Line. Look at Matt Ryan's numbers when he didn't have strong O-Lines. Look at Luck outside of this year. These guys could not survive for 6 seasons under that kind of duress (Luck already proved that). Wilson didn't only survive, he thrived and produced at a high level.

Brady & Brees production goes down playing behind Cable O-Lines than their current situation. Wilson's production would go up playing with Payton or McDaniel in that situation. It went up with Schottenhiemer who isn't a savant when it comes to the passing game.

Wilson is the one being handicapped here.

Yet he finds a way to statistically keep up. He belongs in the group.

PS Ben Roethlisbeger is a fraud.

I agree with most everything you are saying and agree that my way of judging a quarterback in these terms may be a bit old-school. There's just too much meat left on the bone on a play-by-play basis for me to lump him in with the Brady/Brees crowd. I put him at or near the top of that next, very good tier, and do think he has elite playmaking ability and produces very good results.

 

[Fade]

I agree with most everything you are saying and agree that my way of judging a quarterback in these terms may be a bit old-school. There's just too much meat left on the bone on a play-by-play basis for me to lump him in with the Brady/Brees crowd. I put him at or near the top of that next, very good tier, and do think he has elite playmaking ability and produces very good results.

Okay so semantics then?

Would you take Newton over Wilson?

Would you take Luck over Wilson?

Would you take Matt Ryan over Wilson?

Just curious.

 

[Mad Dog]

I'll fully admit that he produces like them. I can't find you the numbers of man vs zone, because they don't exist. I did analysis of 4 games from 2015 and 6 games from 2017 in a similar debate, and found that the percentage of the time that we actually saw zone was wayyy different than the PFF statisticians said that we saw zone. So I would have to watch 4 seasons myself and chart every play to get you that analysis.

You know elite QB play when you see it. We've seen plenty of elite QB's over the years. Against zone, elite QB's can often make it look easy. They hit their back foot, ball comes out, quite often. Do we ever really see that? How many times in Russ' career has a commentator noticed that he manipulates a defender with his eyes, or that he has set defenders up? He can do it against man-1, but that's really about it. If you're not going to go back and look at the all-22, while you're watching the next game, try to figure out what coverage the other team is in pre-snap. IF you think they're in zone, watch what happens.

He might be an elite player, I'm not saying there are many guys I'd rather have, but to make a claim that he is an elite passer is a little baffling.

You know elite systems, when you see it.

Look I know what you mean Tical and totally understand where you are coming from. Brees, Brady, Rivers etc. those types are superior to him in that one area. He isn't going to sit back in the pocket the whole game, and pick apart a zone as good as those guys. He doesn't posses the quick trigger those guys have, he doesn't process it as quickly.

I think a lot of that boils down to being stuck in Pete's system with Bevell. I am fairly confident had he been drafted by Andy Reed as an example he would be far more advanced in this area.

(See Goff w/Fisher --> w/McVay) (See Trubisky w/Fox -> w/Nagy).

Coaching plays a huge factor in this. The Pete Carroll -> don't turn it over (don't take unnecessary risks)

Because when Wilson is let off the leash when they have no choice but to throw or lose the game. He is otherworldly statistically. 4th qtr comebacks, and game winning drives. You do not put any stock into that?

And there is also a flip side to that coin.

Those statues don't possess the running production, and the ability to play behind Cable O-Lines and be an escape artist on a consistent basis for six seasons. Yes, they would've helped mitigate the damage at times, with quicker decision making, but in the end they would have died, or retired. It was unsustainable. Wilson was so damn amazing Carroll naively stuck with the fable that was Cable for far too long because he was performing at high level despite the dumpster fire. WILSON KEPT CABLE & BEVELL EMPLOYED, that is how good he was/is.

Brady & Brees are not the same players when under pressure. Wilson isn't either, but he some how found / finds a way to produce in spite of it, and keep up with those guys. That does not impress you? These guys that you deem so amazing in well oiled machine offensive systems. Yet there is Wilson hanging with them, and rushing for 1700 yards in the process.

Watch Derek Carr two-three years ago when he had a great O-Line, many were considering him for MVP. Now he has been Cable'd. It didn't stop Wilson for 6 years.

Look at Newton's numbers outside of when he played behind the #2 O-Line. Look at Matt Ryan's numbers when he didn't have strong O-Lines. Look at Luck outside of this year. These guys could not survive for 6 seasons under that kind of duress (Luck already proved that). Wilson didn't only survive, he thrived and produced at a high level.

Brady & Brees production goes down playing behind Cable O-Lines than their current situation. Wilson's production would go up playing with Payton or McDaniel in that situation. It went up with Schottenhiemer who isn't a savant when it comes to the passing game.

Wilson is the one being handicapped here.

Yet he finds a way to statistically keep up. He belongs in the group.

PS Ben Roethlisbeger is a fraud.

I agree with most everything you are saying and agree that my way of judging a quarterback in these terms may be a bit old-school. There's just too much meat left on the bone on a play-by-play basis for me to lump him in with the Brady/Brees crowd. I put him at or near the top of that next, very good tier, and do think he has elite playmaking ability and produces very good results.

I doubt very much you've put Brady and Brees under the same microscope at the same point in their careers.

I'm of the opinion that Wilson has excelled despite Carrolls and Bevels and Cables ways and that those guys have been his greatest handicap. It's an opinion but I suspect it's more wise than your opinion that he's a great but tragically flawed QB. These "I love him but he sucks" diatribes are the only true hogwash at play here.

 

[Scorpion05]

Oh, hogwash. Huge difference between Russ and just about all the other guys on that list...they push the ball into the zone. Completion percentage and passer rating are always going to favor guys that are afraid to make mistakes and would rather hold the ball and take a sack than drive the ball into the teeth of a zone. Russ had a 123 passer rating against the Rams last week, while making crucial mistakes on important downs and failing to drive the ball down the field.

You have the all-22? Pick a game, any game, and only watch the plays that we play against zone defense, and tell me Russell Wilson is an elite quarterback. Don't worry, I'll wait. That pick-6 from three weeks ago...there isn't another QB on your list that makes that throw. That was QB-101 stuff.

He's a fantastic weapon. He's great at not making mistakes. He's an incredibly accurate passer and is very resilient. You can win with him. He can do things nobody else can do, but unfortunately can't do some things that everybody can. Higher level quarterbacking from a mental point of view, he just isn't there, not even close.

Your false point about Russ making "crucial mistakes on important downs," which pretty much any QB has in a game IN WHICH THEY LOSE....I want to focus on your latter point.


Can you point specifically to what Russell lacks from a "mental point of view" and why you believe he lacks the intelligence other QBs supposedly have?

 

[Scorpion05]

I'll fully admit that he produces like them. I can't find you the numbers of man vs zone, because they don't exist. I did analysis of 4 games from 2015 and 6 games from 2017 in a similar debate, and found that the percentage of the time that we actually saw zone was wayyy different than the PFF statisticians said that we saw zone. So I would have to watch 4 seasons myself and chart every play to get you that analysis.

You know elite QB play when you see it. We've seen plenty of elite QB's over the years. Against zone, elite QB's can often make it look easy. They hit their back foot, ball comes out, quite often. Do we ever really see that? How many times in Russ' career has a commentator noticed that he manipulates a defender with his eyes, or that he has set defenders up? He can do it against man-1, but that's really about it. If you're not going to go back and look at the all-22, while you're watching the next game, try to figure out what coverage the other team is in pre-snap. IF you think they're in zone, watch what happens.

He might be an elite player, I'm not saying there are many guys I'd rather have, but to make a claim that he is an elite passer is a little baffling.

Nevermind, now I know you're just making stuff up and letting your perception or stereotype of Russ lead your argument.

Russ is one of the best QBs in the league pre-snap. Schotty will even attest to this, and his insane work ethic. The Cowboys game, and a couple of touchdowns against the Rams in the first game..is a perfect example of Russ looking off the receiver and throwing long bombs to Lockett and Moore. We can all acknowledge that Russ doesn't fit what people THINK a QB is supposed to look like. And no, Russ isn't perfect at everything. Drew Brees for example has phenomenal mechanics..although he still misses throws. But he looks great while missing those throws. Brees is also a QB that relies so much on his mechanics that if you pressure him, like Brady he falters a bit. How do you think we beat him in Seattle in the playoffs, twice? Russ has continuously read the defense, audibled, and made tight window throws...even if he does it looking differently

Russ is unorthodox. But thus far you've implied he doesn't do what the film has clearly shown him do on more than one occassion, what players and coaches have acknowledged about Wilson...and you've basically questioned his intelligence using zero facts.

 

[Tical21]

I agree with most everything you are saying and agree that my way of judging a quarterback in these terms may be a bit old-school. There's just too much meat left on the bone on a play-by-play basis for me to lump him in with the Brady/Brees crowd. I put him at or near the top of that next, very good tier, and do think he has elite playmaking ability and produces very good results.

Okay so semantics then?

Would you take Newton over Wilson?

Would you take Luck over Wilson?

Would you take Matt Ryan over Wilson?

Just curious.

No on Newton and Ryan. Not sure about Luck. I haven't seen him play this season, but it feels like he has taken a step forwards.

 

[Tical21]

Oh, hogwash. Huge difference between Russ and just about all the other guys on that list...they push the ball into the zone. Completion percentage and passer rating are always going to favor guys that are afraid to make mistakes and would rather hold the ball and take a sack than drive the ball into the teeth of a zone. Russ had a 123 passer rating against the Rams last week, while making crucial mistakes on important downs and failing to drive the ball down the field.

You have the all-22? Pick a game, any game, and only watch the plays that we play against zone defense, and tell me Russell Wilson is an elite quarterback. Don't worry, I'll wait. That pick-6 from three weeks ago...there isn't another QB on your list that makes that throw. That was QB-101 stuff.

He's a fantastic weapon. He's great at not making mistakes. He's an incredibly accurate passer and is very resilient. You can win with him. He can do things nobody else can do, but unfortunately can't do some things that everybody can. Higher level quarterbacking from a mental point of view, he just isn't there, not even close.

Your false point about Russ making "crucial mistakes on important downs," which pretty much any QB has in a game IN WHICH THEY LOSE....I want to focus on your latter point.


Can you point specifically to what Russell lacks from a "mental point of view" and why you believe he lacks the intelligence other QBs supposedly have?

The pick 6 two weeks ago where he made a horrendous read pre-snap. That is a read and throw no other top tier QB would come close to making.

The pivotal 3rd and 3 where his read broke open but he didn't anticipate and got strip-sacked by Fowler.

And watch him play against zone.

 

[Fade]

Tical, I love the discussion btw.

You talk about Wilson struggling with zone, but think about.

You're playing the Tom Cable Seahawks, they can't run the ball, they can't protect, they are very leaky up front.

But they have a QB as slippery and as mobile as they come.


I know if I was a DC. I would play 2 high because I don't have to worry about the run. Then I would play zone underneath, to keep eyeballs on that guy so he doesn't kill me as a runner, and just rush 4. At times turning the 4th rusher into a spy.

I then would have my underneath zone defenders sit on all the quick routes because you know the ball has to come out quick because the protection can't hold up and you have safety help over the top.

Don't you think that is the most difficult circumstances a QB can face on a consistent basis?

That degree of difficulty is insane. While being pressured heavily and constantly.


Wilson still kicked ass. suffered his lowest numbers of his career, but they don't drop like Matt Ryan's, Cam Newton's, Andrew Luck's, or any QB you want to name.

NOT ONLY THAT kept up with the elites in the game stat wise. 4th qtr comebacks, all of that.

Wilson performed miracles, and you're chilling in the background,, meh he is not elite.

LMAO....

 

[Tical21]

I'll fully admit that he produces like them. I can't find you the numbers of man vs zone, because they don't exist. I did analysis of 4 games from 2015 and 6 games from 2017 in a similar debate, and found that the percentage of the time that we actually saw zone was wayyy different than the PFF statisticians said that we saw zone. So I would have to watch 4 seasons myself and chart every play to get you that analysis.

You know elite QB play when you see it. We've seen plenty of elite QB's over the years. Against zone, elite QB's can often make it look easy. They hit their back foot, ball comes out, quite often. Do we ever really see that? How many times in Russ' career has a commentator noticed that he manipulates a defender with his eyes, or that he has set defenders up? He can do it against man-1, but that's really about it. If you're not going to go back and look at the all-22, while you're watching the next game, try to figure out what coverage the other team is in pre-snap. IF you think they're in zone, watch what happens.

He might be an elite player, I'm not saying there are many guys I'd rather have, but to make a claim that he is an elite passer is a little baffling.

Nevermind, now I know you're just making stuff up and letting your perception or stereotype of Russ lead your argument.

Russ is one of the best QBs in the league pre-snap. Schotty will even attest to this, and his insane work ethic. The Cowboys game, and a couple of touchdowns against the Rams in the first game..is a perfect example of Russ looking off the receiver and throwing long bombs to Lockett and Moore. We can all acknowledge that Russ doesn't fit what people THINK a QB is supposed to look like. And no, Russ isn't perfect at everything. Drew Brees for example has phenomenal mechanics..although he still misses throws. But he looks great while missing those throws. Brees is also a QB that relies so much on his mechanics that if you pressure him, like Brady he falters a bit. How do you think we beat him in Seattle in the playoffs, twice? Russ has continuously read the defense, audibled, and made tight window throws...even if he does it looking differently

Russ is unorthodox. But thus far you've implied he doesn't do what the film has clearly shown him do on more than one occassion, what players and coaches have acknowledged about Wilson...and you've basically questioned his intelligence using zero facts.

If he was so fantastic pre-snap, why has he never been given the responsibility at the LOS that the others have?

I'm sorry, I'll just come out and say it...he cant read zone. He just doesn't have that sixth sense. Watch. Next time you see the opposing defense is in zone, watch Russ presnap and then see what happens. You'll see his body slump. He has no idea what to do. Once you see it, you can't unsee it.

 

[Tical21]

Tical, I love the discussion btw.

You talk about Wilson struggling with zone, but think about.

You're playing the Tom Cable Seahawks, they can't run the ball, they can't protect, they are very leaky up front.

But they have a QB as slippery and as mobile as they come.


I know if I was a DC. I would play 2 high because I don't have to worry about the run. Then I would play zone underneath, to keep eyeballs on that guy so he doesn't kill me as a runner, and just rush 4. At times turning the 4th rusher into a spy.

I then would have my underneath zone defenders sit on all the quick routes because you know the ball has to come out quick because the protection can't hold up and you have safety help over the top.

Don't you think that is the most difficult circumstances a QB can face on a consistent basis?

That degree of difficulty is insane. While being pressured heavily and constantly.


Wilson still kicked ass. suffered his lowest numbers of his career, but they don't drop like Matt Ryan's, Cam Newton's, Andrew Luck's, or any QB you want to name.

NOT ONLY THAT kept up with the elites in the game stat wise. 4th qtr comebacks, all of that.

Wilson performed miracles, and you're chilling in the background,, meh he is not elite.

LMAO....

I don't disagree with any of this. However, zones do have weaknesses, and even Bevell often called correct concepts to attack these weaknesses. Times where the primary route is open against the defense you expected, and the ball doesn't come out, are a problem. But it is getting incrementally better this year. We are largely running very simple concepts and executing a little better. I'm encouraged.

 

[Fade]

The pivotal 3rd and 3 where his read broke open but he didn't anticipate and got strip-sacked by Fowler.

And watch him play against zone.

That was a blindside hit, Brown got beat.


That SD play was awful no defending that, but it is a cherry pick. Wilson has thrown very few pick 6's in his career.

Brees missed a throw in the endzone to Taysom Hill today early in the game when it was still a ball game. Does that mean Brees is an inaccurate thrower, and needs to work on his accuracy? I can cherry pick too.

 

[Fade]

Tical, I love the discussion btw.

You talk about Wilson struggling with zone, but think about.

You're playing the Tom Cable Seahawks, they can't run the ball, they can't protect, they are very leaky up front.

But they have a QB as slippery and as mobile as they come.


I know if I was a DC. I would play 2 high because I don't have to worry about the run. Then I would play zone underneath, to keep eyeballs on that guy so he doesn't kill me as a runner, and just rush 4. At times turning the 4th rusher into a spy.

I then would have my underneath zone defenders sit on all the quick routes because you know the ball has to come out quick because the protection can't hold up and you have safety help over the top.

Don't you think that is the most difficult circumstances a QB can face on a consistent basis?

That degree of difficulty is insane. While being pressured heavily and constantly.


Wilson still kicked ass. suffered his lowest numbers of his career, but they don't drop like Matt Ryan's, Cam Newton's, Andrew Luck's, or any QB you want to name.

NOT ONLY THAT kept up with the elites in the game stat wise. 4th qtr comebacks, all of that.

Wilson performed miracles, and you're chilling in the background,, meh he is not elite.

LMAO....

I don't disagree with any of this.

If you don't disagree then how is he not elite? You make no sense bro? But you're making me laugh that's something at least.

 

[Tical21]

The pivotal 3rd and 3 where his read broke open but he didn't anticipate and got strip-sacked by Fowler.

And watch him play against zone.

That was a blindside hit, Brown got beat.


That SD play was awful no defending that, but it is a cherry pick. Wilson has thrown very few pick 6's in his career.

Brees missed a throw in the endzone to Taysom Hill today early in the game when it was still a ball game. Does that mean Brees is an inaccurate thrower, and needs to work on his accuracy? I can cherry pick too.

It isn't a cherry pick. If it was a pick 6 where a guy made a good play, I wouldn't give it another thought. But it was just that bad of a read. Something you dont even really see in college.

Brown got beat, and is more at fault than Russ on the play, but if the ball comes out on time, it's a completion. Elite qbs complete that pass on 3rd and 3. Simple read, ball needs to come out.

 

[Tical21]

Tical, I love the discussion btw.

You talk about Wilson struggling with zone, but think about.

You're playing the Tom Cable Seahawks, they can't run the ball, they can't protect, they are very leaky up front.

But they have a QB as slippery and as mobile as they come.


I know if I was a DC. I would play 2 high because I don't have to worry about the run. Then I would play zone underneath, to keep eyeballs on that guy so he doesn't kill me as a runner, and just rush 4. At times turning the 4th rusher into a spy.

I then would have my underneath zone defenders sit on all the quick routes because you know the ball has to come out quick because the protection can't hold up and you have safety help over the top.

Don't you think that is the most difficult circumstances a QB can face on a consistent basis?

That degree of difficulty is insane. While being pressured heavily and constantly.


Wilson still kicked ass. suffered his lowest numbers of his career, but they don't drop like Matt Ryan's, Cam Newton's, Andrew Luck's, or any QB you want to name.

NOT ONLY THAT kept up with the elites in the game stat wise. 4th qtr comebacks, all of that.

Wilson performed miracles, and you're chilling in the background,, meh he is not elite.

LMAO....

I don't disagree with any of this.

If you don't disagree then how is he not elite? You make no sense bro? But you're making me laugh that's something at least.

I dont understand what any of the above has to do with being elite. Degree of difficulty makes it so he's automatically elite, even with middling results?