citysaint":1m1u13pd said:
How much of a "DVOA" point drop is it losing Browner and Thurmond in the passing game. This is a major major blow to Seattle.
I wanted to add on a bit to what I'd written about your question earlier. You asked how much of a blow Thurmond's and Browner's losses could be to Seattle. I would submit to you that in reality, the Seahawks may not feel the effects of their absence all that much. What!?! I hear people saying. He's absolutely nuts. On the surface, it would appear so. Let me explain and give some context ...
Your question at its heart really has a lot to do with player evaluation and how the Seahawks have done in that arena. When Pete Carroll and GM John Schneider were first hired, there was naturally a great deal of skepticism about those two and their vision for this team. Hugh Millen, former Husky and NFL QB for the Patriots, Falcons, and Broncos has affectionately called the Seahawks Defense, "The Land of Misfit Toys." That's because what the Seahawks do doesn't fit the conventional mold. They often take other people's castoffs ... guys that may get overlooked or even cut by other teams (but have certain skills) and turn them in to very productive players. Carroll came in with seemingly crazy ideas (especially about defense) that seemed like utter madness to many locally. Red Bryant was on the verge of being cut -- a guy who didn't fit the normal NFL mold of what a DE should be. He took one look at him and felt he would be ideal for a position he called the "Elephant", a run stuffing DE who plays at the 5 Technique. Bryant went from on his way out to being one of the true anchors of this defense. They trade DE Darryl Tapp (a very productive and talented end whom then defensive line coach Dan Quinn called, "a spinning ball of blades") for a 4th Round pick and Chris Clemons (a then 28 year old who had bounced around and never truly made it in the NFL). All he becomes is their best pass rusher. They trade away CB Josh Wilson (a scrappy, very talented corner) and bring in guys like Brandon Browner, who was an All Star in the CFL. All he does is become one of Seattle's best corners and again, a real anchor, as his physical style of play really lends well to what Carroll believes in. The 2012 NFL Draft -- many national experts out there were laughing afterwards, giving Seattle D's and F's and calling it one of the very worst in the NFL. Months later, many of those same guys (Mel Kiper included) embarassedly re-graded Seattle and were giving them A's. You see, this coaching staff and GM doesn't look at a player and say, "Well, he can't do this and he can't do that ... therefore, he's useless." Instead, they look at a player and say, "What CAN he do? What outstanding tools does he possess?" They look for guys that may only have 1 or 2 outstanding tools ... and then construct an entire puzzle with guys that are complimentary pieces.
That kind of thing has become typical for this regime. Where once Seattle fans were by in large skeptical, they now by in large trust that, "If Pete and John think it's the right move -- it's definitely the right move." And by in large they have been generally right. Where rival GM's around the NFL once laughed and shook their heads at Seattle's approach to scouting and the NFL Draft ... NOW if the Hawks draft a guy seemingly out of the blue (a What The *&%@ kind of move), they are often saying to themselves, "OK, what did we miss on this guy?" Take for example the Seahawks 5th Round pick this year from Rice, TE Luke Willson. On the season, Willson has 12 Catches for 170 yards, has shown decent blocking, and appears (given time) that he will be a quality TE in this league. What's intriguing about Willson is that the 49ers drafted his teammate, Vance McDonald, who was the starter at Rice last year (Willson was his backup) in the 2nd Round this year. On the season, McDonald has only 7 Catches for 96 yards. Same team -- yet the backup is the one having the apparently better season. You see, Seattle didn't just consider Willson's final year at Rice ... they looked at his entire makeup and body of work, noting that Willson WAS the starter, but had lost his job due to injuries his Senior Year and that he had a very good year in 2011.
And Seattle has an impressive scouting staff, which includes former 49ers GM Scot McCloughan, who was responsible for drafting 11 of the 22 starters on San Francisco's team last year including: Frank Gore, Dashon Goldson, Justin Smith, Joe Staley, and Patrick Willis. These guys (as a whole) are some of the very best talent evaluators I've ever seen. They are (in the words of John Schneider) "Everywhere and in on everything." That is no joke. A 5th or 6th Round Pick in the hands of John Schneider is honestly like a 2nd round pick in the hands of your average GM. They find tons of very talented guys in those later rounds (and as UDFA's -- Doug Baldwin for one) who have become stars for this team.
So, there's some background for you.
Anyway, back to the corner position specifically -- let's go back to October 2011. Walter Thurmond went down with a
broken fibula and severely injured ankle and was placed on IR. The team was already reeling from the loss of CB Marcus Trufant (who was considered the Seahawks best CB at the time). So, it was next man up time. And who did they happen to insert in to the lineup. Eh, some no name Rookie who was taken in the 5th Round that year out of Stanford -- Richard Sherman. Perhaps you've heard of him. Trufant got Wally Pipped and never got his starting job back, as CB play improved overall with Sherman at the helm.
Last season, Brandon Browner was suspended for the remaining 4 games of the season for violating the NFL's PED policy at the start of December. Then, Walter Thurmond went down with a hamstring injury and was lost for the final 3 games of the regular season. Seahawk fans were saying the exact same thing last year, "What are we going to do?" Next man up -- enter Jeremy Lane and Byron Maxwell (both drafted in the 6th Round by Seattle -- Maxwell in 2011 and Lane was a Rookie last year). Both guys are very physical, have nice instincts, are fast, and played great down the stretch including that 42-13 whooping of the 49ers in Seattle last year. Neither Browner nor Thurmond played in that 49er game ... and Seattle won all 3 games with those guys at the helm. As I said, Seattle has quality depth at the position.
So, long answer to say that even with Browner seemingly being lost forever and Thurmond for the foreseeable future, Seattle fans are fairly confident that Maxwell, Lane, and either Deshawn Shead (who is 6'1" 220 pounds and several are calling a Browner clone) or Antoine Winfield (if Schneider decides to bring him in) will do just fine.
Edit to add:
There's another in-house CB candidate that I forgot to mention (can't believe I forgot, as I've been one of the ones somewhat on his bandwagon) -- and that would be former LSU Tiger Tharold Simon (another of Seattle's 5th Round choices this year). Simon is another guy whom we know the coaching staff is high on and like a lot of the characters Pete Carroll brings in, has some blights on his resume. Simon saw his stock drop a bit in the draft, as the night before the draft he was arrested for allegedly intimidating police in his hometown of Eunice, Louisiana. Mainly though, his stock dropped because he ran a 4.51 at the combine. At his Pro Day however, he ended up running a 4.39. Like everyone else Carroll goes after, Simon is a very physical, fearless, and aggressive defender who has good instincts for the football. At 6'3" 202 pounds, he is exactly the kind of corner that Carroll and the Seahawks usually look for. Simon was placed on the PUP List after he fractured his foot in spring practices. He just started practicing recently however -- and per NFL rules, once a player starts practicing the team has 21 days to either activate that player and elevate him to the active roster ... OR else he must remain on the PUP List and be lost for the remainder of the season. Now, many people have been wondering (up until this point) why the Hawks hadn't made any kind of move with Brandon Browner, as he has a severe groin pull that some have whispered is so bad that they believe would eventually land him on IR. The conspiracy theorist in me wondered if this 21 Day window for Tharold Simon might not have had something to do with why they hadn't made a move. In essence, if Simon looked like he was ready to go at the end of that 21 Day Window (and Browner still hadn't healed up) -- the Seahawks look to place him on IR at that point with Simon taking his spot. That WAS the theory a few days ago. Still, Simon is another in house candidate to keep an eye on for sure (obviously not for this game, but possibly for the remainder of the season).
So in conclusion, the Hawks have a lot of options they are certainly weighing at this time.
ukeface:
