Q&A with Saints Fans/Seahawks-Saints Game Preview ...

citysaint

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Hawkscanner":327u8vqb said:
citysaint":327u8vqb said:
Because of that kind of "protection" Russell Wilson (up until last week) was THE MOST pressured QB in the NFL bar none (on nearly 44% of all his drop-backs). So, almost 50% of the time he dropped back to pass ... Wilson had a guy in his face.

And yet despite all of that ... Wilson (unbelievably) has thrived. On the season, here are Wilson's numbers
Mmmmm ... not exactly what I'm saying. In many ways, you've got to look beyond the stats. I don't know if you have NFL All Access and can go back and watch that Seahawks-Vikings game, but if you do, you'll see a far different product than what Seattle has had for most of the year. Russell Wilson had LOTS of time back in the pocket. In fact, I'm only remembering a small handful of times that he truly was scrambling around. The Offensive Line pretty much dominated their D Line. The Vikings had all of 1 Sack and 4 QB Hits in that game (and let me tell you, that wasn't all that much of a sack). I would say, be careful in reading too much in to numbers -- they don't tell the whole story. Go back and watch that game if you're able to.

It doesn't look bad, but the number of pass attempts were extremely low considering. I watched the game, Minnesota's line should have been dominated. If Okung, Unger, and Breno were healthy all year and running like a machine they would have been. On minimal pass attempts they got pressure, they even were penetrating in the run game morethan I would have liked if I were a Seahawks fan. The difference in the game was defense.... what 3 INT's in their own redzone?? They couldn't have made it easier for Wilson and the offense.
 

saints2k8

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citysaint":1td393at said:
KK84":1td393at said:
It's my opinion that the Saints offense is elite, but the defense is far, far from anything resembling elite. They have had better luck rushing the passer, and Rob Ryan scheme has undoubtedly helped some, but these are the same players who were absolutely horrible last year...what's the difference?


40 Sacks on the season so far isn't elite, thats luck? And now we are playing the most pressured QB in the league, your line is back, but last week they were about as good as all the weeks prior in terms of pressures allowed.

And 11 TD passes allowed in 11 games

Our D is elite.
 

HawkAroundTheClock

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lengai":1mtw2e1k said:
HawkAroundTheClock":1mtw2e1k said:
I'm curious about the Saints' RB rotation. With stats and/or the ol' eyeball test, what do you Saints fans think about how your RBs are used? What do you like about it? Not like?

As a comparative, I was exited when we drafted Christine Michael this year. He had injury problems in college, as well as a murky relationship with his head coach, but when he got the ball he looked electric on the field. It seemed we would have him (plus our 2nd year backup Robert Turbin) rotating in to keep Marshawn healthier for the playoffs. I envisioned something similar to what I imagined the Saints have been doing, or at least I thought we had the talent to spread the touches out between the three RBs (and FBs as well). That hasn't been the case. So far, we've only seen Michael get a handful of carries in two games during garbage time. Turbin gets his snaps, but our backfield is mostly a one-beast show.

I think what Sproles can do is well established. Our best RB is Pierre Thomas. He is very shifty, excellent vision and patience, gets hard yards up the gut when needed, and is the absolute best screen back in the game today. If you guys start getting pressure, the Saints O can screen pass the opposing team very well. Ingram is a good runner, but has no leg drive.

Nice, thanks for the assessment. I could see the screen being used effectively against us. We will have to balance our speedy pursuit with disciplined gap control to keep it in check.

In your opinion are your RBs used in proper proportion? Put another way, would you like to see any one of them get more/fewer touches, or used in situations where they aren't yet?
 

stack600

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Very Impressed Hawkscanner, And very Impressed Saints fans, 4 pages so far and no trash talking or insult slinging. This would be a great forum week to week, But a few teams in our division (no names) Just could not keep it a class act. In 1979 I was stationed at Fort Benning, GA with the 82nd, And made a trip down to your city for Mardi Gras. I was Impressed with basically the friendliness of the people, and had a wonderful time. Of course there was some that acted like @$$ holes. But you have that in every city.

My question is How has the Who Dat nation took to Rob Ryan, I know he has turned your D around from last year. But with Williams departure, And the trials and tribulations your fan base endured last season without Coach Payton. Were you concerned when he took over, as I'm sure being close to Dallas you knew his track record?

(I ask cause I was worried when we lost Coach Gus to the Jags, but Quinn has came in as DC and won us over)
 
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Hawkscanner

Hawkscanner

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citysaint":iqw39fhh said:
40 Sacks on the season so far isn't elite, thats luck? And now we are playing the most pressured QB in the league, your line is back, but last week they were about as good as all the weeks prior in terms of pressures allowed.

LOL! Let's not be foolish and suggest that the Saints don't have one of the best defenses in the league. BOTH the Seahawks and the Saints are right towards the very top in terms of defense. I mean, if you're tied for the league lead in Sacks, you're doing something right.

That brings another question to mind about the Saints Defense though (and I'll preface it with this).

The Seahawks generated A LOT of sacks back in 2005 as well (they had 50 Sacks and were #1 in the NFL that year in that category). That said, I don't think there is any question among Seahawks fans that this year's version of the Hawks (even though they have 33 sacks, which is still among the league leaders) is a far superior defense to that one. You see, the Hawks in 2005 generated tons of sacks because they blitzed A LOT that year. That inevitably led to a lot of holes in the defense, as the Seahawks also finished 25th in Passing Yards Allowed (3,559 Yards). This year, Seattle has generated 33 Sacks and has allowed only 1,984 Passing Yards on the season (2nd Fewest). Their defensive line is far superior to 2005's, as the Seahawks have almost an embarrassment of riches when it comes to pass rushers. They don't blitz nearly as often as they did back in '05, as that Front 4 does a fine job of applying pressure all on their own.

That said, the question obviously is, "How much do the Saints blitz? How much pressure does that Front 4 generally create? (outside of Cameron Jordan, that is)"

Edit to add:

Second question, "It looks like in going through all the numbers that if there WERE a weakness on this Saints Defense, it would be against the run. Can you guys comment on that and/or shed some light?"
 

Number9

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Hawkscanner":3cdkclc0 said:
Well, when I'm talking about throwing Outside the Pocket on the run, I literally mean on the run. For example, this was an eye popping play that Wilson made earlier this year.
http://www.seahawks.com/videos-phot...ouchdown/cebcec8f-2517-425c-90cc-ed24b8d586ef

You say that Brees stops and throws. Have you seen Brees make these kinds on plays on the move? It wouldn't surprise me at all if the answer was Yes. It will sure be interesting to see how each team plays against a mirror image of their own QB (but then again, each team's defense does that every day in practice). Anyway, back to my question for clarification -- does Brees make plays on the run like that where he doesn't have to stop and set himself before he throws? This is the kind of stuff we see out of Wilson all the time that makes him so dangerous.

When you mentioned throwing on the run, this particular play from Week 8 came to mind (you may have to temporarily disable Adblock)

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss ... equals-six
 

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Courtesy of WHODATWORM23....but its dead on truth. good read enjoy.

Rob Ryan is a guy that marches to a beat of his own drum so to speak. He’s a very unique and supremely confident coach who truly believes that he’s one of if not the best at what he does. These days’ people throw out names of defensive schemes to associate with certain coaches across the NFL. Monte Kiffin runs the Tampa 2, - LeBeauf is the ultimate 34 guy & Mike Zimmer still earns his living running a base 43. Somewhere along the way Rob Ryan was branded a 34 guy and while that statement is semi accurate, it’s not totally true either.

Most of the truly great coaches in the NFL are schemers by nature. They evolve and adept their schemes around defensive personnel and situational football. Sean Payton is the best at this offensively in the NFL and Rob Ryan has quietly been one of the top defensive minds in this area of coaching football as well. Ryan is the son of the great defensive mind Buddy Ryan who’s famed 46 defense turned out to be a revolutionary scheme that took the NFL by storm in the early 80’s and got to the height of its success in 1985 with the coined “Monsters of the Midway” defense that helped the Chicago Bears capture the world championship that season and has gone down as arguably the greatest defense of all time. Rob Ryan still to this day uses many of the same concepts from his dad’s 46 schemes and I’d go as far as to say that this is the scheme that the majority of Ryan’s defensive alignments and personnel groupings originate from. Ryan also served under another great defensive mind in current Patriots head coach Bill Belicheck as linebackers coach. It’s here where Ryan learned the nuances of the 34 defense and the importance of situational football. After his time in New England, Rob Ryan finally got his first of many defensive coordinator positions in the NFL with the Oakland Raiders where he installed a base 43 defenses with many different pressure and situational packages stemming from his time in New England and what he learned from his father growing up. After his time in Oakland he bounced from Cleveland to Dallas where it was pretty much the same except for the fact that now Ryan had switched his base package from a 43 to a 34 to better accommodate the defensive personnel with those teams. So honestly we can sit here all day and debate 43 vs. 34 under Rob Ryan but the true nature of his schemes, concepts and blitz packages still generate from the famed 46 defense his dad created. The problem with any defensive scheme in the NFL though is personnel. Even the best coaching minds need good personnel in order to be truly successful. Good schemers like Ryan can get away for a while with disguise and confusion but ultimately in this league you will eventually be figured out.

Looking at the defensive personnel Rob Ryan has inherited in New Orleans, most outsiders had no idea what Rob Ryan had to work with. All they knew was that it was statistically the worst defense in NFL history last season but Rob Ryan saw the potential. While most will credit Ryan for the quick turnaround in New Orleans and he is the major reason for it) I also give credit to the underrated personnel Mickey Loomis has been able to acquire on this team defensively over the past few seasons. To me, the main reason for the vast improvement of this unit stems not from the so called “switch” from a base 43 to 34 but how more so how the current defensive personnel here was a perfect fit for all of Ryan’s 46 concepts instead. Remember, former Saints defensive coordinator Greg Williams who was here when many of the current core defenders were acquired is also a pupil of Buddy Ryan’s 46 scheme and ran many similar concepts we see being run today. In other words, this is what this grouping was built for and in my opinion the Saints are two key players away from bringing back the famed 46 defense as a true staple of an NFL franchise.

In many ways the NFL actually phased out the 46 through the evolution of the spread offenses and crack down on physical defensive play. Most feel the scheme is not applicable in today’s NFL because of this but times are beginning to change again as the fads and trends of the NFL continue to repeat it. In today’s NFL, defense has basically been boiled down to just two ideals and objectives and that’s applying pressure and generating turnovers. Even the best defensive’s in today’s NFL surrenders yardage and points, it’s the way the corporate NFL wants it to be and the better defenses now have come to understand that you have to be an opportunistic defense. You have to be as physical as the rules will allow and your scheme must focus its objective to pressure and turnovers in order to be successful.

If anything, the 46 concept allows its defensive personnel to do just this but more so than any other defensive alignment in the NFL, you have to have the right personnel to succeed in implementing it. Like any other defensive coordinator, Rob Ryan would still use his multitude of different defensive concepts and personnel groupings in order to create confusion and disguise for opposing quarterbacks but here’s how the Saints can be the first in years to called the 46 there base defense.

Bringing back the 46…

For those who don’t know much about the original 46 defense the Bears employed under Buddy Ryan, here are a few tid bits you need to know… The 46 phrase was not coined due to the personnel alignment like all other defensives today. It actually came from Buddy Ryan’s admiration of then Bears safety Doug Plank who wore the #46, hence the 46 defense. This scheme had multiple Hall of Famers on it such as MLB Mike Singletary and DE Richard Dent but even Buddy would have told you himself, the two cornerstones that made this concept work were S Doug Plank and DE Dan Hampton.

Doug Plank was considered at his time the most feared safety in the NFL. He was an ultra-aggressive player with no regard for his body and was considered one of the best tacklers in the game. His versatility set him apart because he could play any position in the defensive secondary as well as come down in the box to play linebacker. He was also what they called a tweener who truly didn’t have a true NFL position but he was the type of talent that could not be kept on the sideline so Buddy Ryan devised a scheme which would allow the Bears to better utilize the talents of one of their best assets.

Dan Hampton on the other hand was the key to the defense. A super versatile defensive lineman for his time who possessed the ability to play in any scheme and at any position on the front line. He was a power player who while never garnered high sack totals like bookend Richard Dent but his ability to apply quick pressure from anywhere on the line and the brute force in which he played the game is what allowed the other guys up front to excel. Hampton was truly a unique talent and in my opinion one of the NFL’s most underrated players of all time.

Now if while you were reading the last two paragraphs you began to notice some similarities between Doug Plank and Dan Hampton compared to our two young defensive cornerstones, then you now see why these concepts that Rob Ryan is implementing is working in the Big Easy. Kenny Vaccaro and Cameron Jordan have very similar skill sets and personalities that Plank and Hampton had. Now while I’m not saying that either of them is on the same level as those NFL greats were, I’m simply pointing out that the skill sets of the 4 are very similar and that Rob Ryan can and do use those two players very much in the same way that his daddy used the others.

Now that I’ve stated the reasoning why I feel the Saints currently have the two most important cornerstones needed to run an effective 46 in today’s NFL, let’s look at how the rest of the defensive scheme is laid out and how our other defensive personnel fit and what are those two key components that are missing.

Below is a basic layout of how the famed 46 is aligned on the field…


Now before we go any further I have to make one thing perfectly clear. In order to make this scheme work in today’s NFL with the way the spread offenses make you defend the entire football field you need two things…

1. Versatile defenders across the board.
2. A very confident and aggressive defensive coordinator.

Go ahead and mark the Saints down for double checks for those. Now let’s break down the 3 different levels of the defense and what would be expected, how the personnel fit and what is needed.

Saints defensive front:
The key to the defensive front lies with its best player and defensive cornerstone Cameron Jordan at the SDE position. Here Jordan would be expected to showcase his tremendous run defending ability as well as his ability to get after the quarterback in passing situations because he’s more or less left out on an island with no immediate line backing help behind him. This position requires a dominate player and Jordan is quickly becoming just that. The 5T opposite Jordan would be manned by Akiem Hicks whose size and strength would be needed here in order to cause disruption and double teams in order to free up the weak side rover linebacker / pass rush specialest that will be flanking him. Inside at the NT position Jon Jenkins has a very similar skill set to the man who once made this position famous in William Perry. Both players were considered surprising athlete’s for men their size as each possessed playing weights of 330+ lbs. Their ability to push the pocket and draw double teams is a key factor to what the concept needs from the position next to them. At the 3T, this concept requires an explosive DT who can generate quick pressure through the strong side A gap and his job is usually assisted by the double team required from the NT. Tyrunn Walker, Glenn Foster and Tom Johnson all possess the necessary skill set to excel at this position.


The line backing core:
The Mike position (Singletary’s role) must be manned by a solid tackling stout player who is the quarterback of the unit. Curtis Lofton is a very underrated player and while he’s no Mike Singletary, he’ll fill this role quite well. The WLB / Rover position is basically your teams best pass rusher. This position was once occupied by Otis Wilson back in the heyday and the player occupying it needs to be a stout run defender and quality pass rusher but coverage skills are not a necessity. Junior Galette has this position sewed up and once Victor Butler returns from injury the Saints will be set here. The SLB position is somewhat in question though. David Hawthorne is an adequate player and his experience as an inside linebacker is valuable but this position requires speed, length and coverage ability in order to make this scheme work in today’s NFL. In certain offensive formations, this is the position that will be required to cover tight ends and backs out of the back field and due to the fact that he’s slightly shaded inside another requirement is a free flowing backer with sideline to sideline range. Although I like David Hawthorne and what he’s done thus far, I see him as a stop gap player for now. Martez Wilson was recently released and while it was a head scratcher at first when I looked at it with this 46 thinking it made a lot of sense. Wilson could not have played the WLB position due to the fact that he is incapable of setting the edge in the running game. Far to many times I’ve seen Wilson absolutely mauled in that area (Jamal Charles 80 yard TD last season). At SLB it would have seemed Wilson would have been the ideal fit due to his length, speed and experience at ILB but for as good an athlete as Wilson was he was extremely stiff and his instincts were subpar at best. Maybe the real reason he was released was due to the fact that he fit nowhere in this defense nor in the future plans of it.


The Secondary:
Here is where because of the new aged offense’s in the NFL, Rob will have to tweak things a bit from what his daddy did in order to make this unit efficient. At the corners, it remains the same as all Ryan based defenses have been. Look for the Saints to employ two physical press man corners on the edge with size and length in order to jam and disrupt the receivers out of their routes but also have the ability to flip their hips and mirror them down the field. Keenan Lewis is a great fit here but the Saints currently have a major hole opposite him. Jabari Greer isn’t a natural fit in this scheme and I feel Corey White (while talented) is better suited in a reserve role as is Patrick Robinson. With that said, it’s the safety position that will make or break this scheme. Looking at the SS position that Plank made famous, I honestly feel the Saints have 3 players that can fill this role depending on the team the Saints are playing and the offensive personnel they employ. This is where Rob Ryan’s time in New England learning situational football and the versatility of his safeties will separate his defense from his fathers. Kenny Vaccaro, Malcolm Jenkins & Roman Harper all have the versatility to play the Plank role. However, against teams that employ an elite tight end like say New England and Atlanta, Vaccaro would then be called to play it due to his coverage ability and physicality. Those elite tight ends are too much to allow the SLB to cover and Harper is not the guy you want there either in that situation. Jenkins could do it but Vaccaro would be the way to go. Against offenses that don’t employ elite tight ends, the SLB and or Harper and Jenkins could handle the Plank position as Vaccaro slides back to the deep FS position in order to act as the last line of defense against the opposing wide receivers. Rafael Bush is also a valuable asset in this scheme giving the Saints a solid 4 man rotation at the most critical position in the concept. The versatility of both Vaccaro and Jenkins as coverage players allow Ryan to implement audible that his father never could and will protect this scheme from being exposed on the back end.


Moving on…
Now like any other DC, expect to see Rob Ryan continue to employ his 4-2-5, 34, dime and nickel packages but the true base concept is two players away from a new aged 46. Of course if you’ve read the entire post you likely have figured out what those two players are… right?


To make this a reality… the Saints lack another physical press man coverage corner with size and length as well as a SLB with the skill set to set this defense apart and protect the strong side behind Jordan. If the Saints can fill these two remaining voids this upcoming draft, Rob Ryan and the Saints could be on the verge of doing something revolutionary themselves in the big easy.

Only time will tell…
 

Saints33

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Hi everybody, I'll try to do a bit of a breakdown on our defensive players for the Saints.

Cameron Jordan DE- Was drafted more to be a run stuffer and has been great since we drafted him stopping the run. He played pretty well last year despite how bad our overall defense, but this year he has done excellent on run stopping and pass rushing.

Bunkley DT- Basically a run stuffer, does well against double teams and usally dominates single blockers. Not gonna provide much of a pass rush normally.

Hicks DT or DE in 3-4- Drafted last year in 3rd round and showed a lot of potential. He has been a beast against the run and pressuring the qb. Still extremely raw, but has come on faster than expected

Jenkins DT- A rookie and a huge man. Showed a lot of great plays earlier in the year and that has tailed off some since Bunkley is back and healthy. Better pass rusher than Bunkley but still needs time to develop. Plays the run well

Edit: just realized someone typed a whole lot better description above me, hahaha
Gallette DE or OLB in 3-4- Great speed rusher and surprisingly stout against the run. Never got drafted and has been our camp beast for a few years. He has really stepped it up this year, very explosive off the snap.

Hawthorne- Ya'll pretty much know about him

Lofton ILB- Great against the run in the box. Can get washed up if blockers get to him. Dline has to keep him clean and average at best in coverage. Sometimes doesn't get to the edge quick on runs outside but almost always makes the play on runs in between the tackles.

Kennan Lewis CB- Big physical corner who has been shutdown pretty much all year. Biggest pickup of the offseason and grew up a Saints fan, took a paycut to come here. If I'm not mistaken he led the league last year in pass deflections at the Steelers. Has a lot of speed also for a physical type corner his size.

Corey White CB- Took the place of starting a couple weeks ago now that Greer is on IR. I would have loved to seen Greer matchup against Percy. White is an excellent tackler and very physical. He has a lot of speed and doesn't have much experience but has played well since his name has been called upon. Struggled early against Falcons but played great in 2nd half. As long as he can get in the receivers face at the snap he is good. If he plays off the receiver it might be a long night for us.

Vaccaro SS- rookie who is also a great tackler and shows a lot of upside. Has made some great plays this year and has the ability to play the nickel also. Might be matched up on Percy some. Good speed, physical, and smart player

Malcom Jenkins FS- Struggled mightily last year but has made a huge turnaround this year. He can also cover the nickel. Sometimes takes poor angles, this year he hasn't been bad at all though. Will miss some tackles in space.

Harper SS- Average at best in coverage but excels at stopping the run and blitzing. Had his worse game as a Saint against ya'll in the playoffs a few years ago.

We really don't blitz as much as we thought Rob Ryan was going to since our dline has done a good job at getting pressure. I believe we are tied for 1st in NFL in sacks. We have been exposed some on runs off the edge but that has been cleaned up somewhat since the Jets game. Our Oline is playing lights out better since bye week which seems to be the case the last few years.
 

Saints33

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Wow, post above my last post is a lot more descriptive, must have been typed while I was typing mine.
 

jlwaters1

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The Saints are not a great road team. They lost to the JETS for Pete's sake, they barely got past the Falcons on Thursday, Seattle beat them up just a few weeks ago in ATL. I think the Saints are a good team, but they aren't unbeatable, I think they are terrific passing team, but they are mediocre running unit- Averaging less than 100 yards and less than 4.0 yards a carry. Seattle is the more complete team., IMO. They can run and pass and they have the homefield advantage.

Bree's road numbers are merely average with a 88-89 QB rating on the road. In the end I think it will come down to who can capitalize in the redzone and who can run the ball effectively- considering there's a chance at snow on that day.
 

KK84

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Saints33":21al4zs0 said:
Wow, post above my last post is a lot more descriptive, must have been typed while I was typing mine.

His post is so long, he started typing it as soon as this thread was opened.
 

jlwaters1

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Good write-ups above. Though I'd say it's a bit of stretch to suggest that Rob Ryan is some well regarded defensive genius. After the Cowboys parted ways he wasn't exactly a sought out commodity. He was unemployed for a while before he landed with the Saints. In fact until this success at the Saints, one could argue he has been a failure as a DC. On the Football today podcast (back when he was let go in DALL) they mentioned that Ryan had never had presided over a top 10 defense in any of his stints with the Raiders, Browns, and Cowboys and that his defenses tended to get worse over time.

I liked Cameron Jordan a lot and wanted him a few years back in the draft and was sad to see the Saints take him. It should be fun to see these 2 good defenses match up against good QB's on either side. Assuming the weather's not horrible it should be a very entertaining game.
 

SuperVillain

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jlwaters1":mmai0tfm said:
The Saints are not a great road team. They lost to the JETS for Pete's sake, they barely got past the Falcons on Thursday, Seattle beat them up just a few weeks ago in ATL. I think the Saints are a good team, but they aren't unbeatable, I think they are terrific passing team, but they are mediocre running unit- Averaging less than 100 yards and less than 4.0 yards a carry. Seattle is the more complete team., IMO. They can run and pass and they have the homefield advantage.

Bree's road numbers are merely average with a 88-89 QB rating on the road. In the end I think it will come down to who can capitalize in the redzone and who can run the ball effectively- considering there's a chance at snow on that day.


You can't judge how good the saints are by how the struggled on the road to beat a Division team. Division games are always harder since you play those teams twice and one of those games being on the road. If you want to make that case then same can be made about the Seahawks struggling barely beating the Rams and barely escaping with a win in Seattle to the then 0-7 Tampa Bucs. The Saints have enough run game to Run against the the hawks who currently rank just below the Saints in run defense. So both teams will be able to run in this game.
 

SuperVillain

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jlwaters1":1t904k4l said:
Good write-ups above. Though I'd say it's a bit of stretch to suggest that Rob Ryan is some well regarded defensive genius. After the Cowboys parted ways he wasn't exactly a sought out commodity. He was unemployed for a while before he landed with the Saints. In fact until this success at the Saints, one could argue he has been a failure as a DC. On the Football today podcast (back when he was let go in DALL) they mentioned that Ryan had never had presided over a top 10 defense in any of his stints with the Raiders, Browns, and Cowboys and that his defenses tended to get worse over time.

I liked Cameron Jordan a lot and wanted him a few years back in the draft and was sad to see the Saints take him. It should be fun to see these 2 good defenses match up against good QB's on either side. Assuming the weather's not horrible it should be a very entertaining game.


One thing Rob Ryan mentioned is that Brees is the best QB he has ever worked with. He has a QB who can give him the lead as oppose to trying to come from behind as opposed to Raiders and Cleveland and dallas. When he was in Cleveland he gave Brees unforgettable problems.
 

lengai

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HawkAroundTheClock":2og3xhr0 said:
lengai":2og3xhr0 said:
HawkAroundTheClock":2og3xhr0 said:
I'm curious about the Saints' RB rotation. With stats and/or the ol' eyeball test, what do you Saints fans think about how your RBs are used? What do you like about it? Not like?

As a comparative, I was exited when we drafted Christine Michael this year. He had injury problems in college, as well as a murky relationship with his head coach, but when he got the ball he looked electric on the field. It seemed we would have him (plus our 2nd year backup Robert Turbin) rotating in to keep Marshawn healthier for the playoffs. I envisioned something similar to what I imagined the Saints have been doing, or at least I thought we had the talent to spread the touches out between the three RBs (and FBs as well). That hasn't been the case. So far, we've only seen Michael get a handful of carries in two games during garbage time. Turbin gets his snaps, but our backfield is mostly a one-beast show.

I think what Sproles can do is well established. Our best RB is Pierre Thomas. He is very shifty, excellent vision and patience, gets hard yards up the gut when needed, and is the absolute best screen back in the game today. If you guys start getting pressure, the Saints O can screen pass the opposing team very well. Ingram is a good runner, but has no leg drive.

Nice, thanks for the assessment. I could see the screen being used effectively against us. We will have to balance our speedy pursuit with disciplined gap control to keep it in check.

In your opinion are your RBs used in proper proportion? Put another way, would you like to see any one of them get more/fewer touches, or used in situations where they aren't yet?

We usually come out with a lot of Sproles and some Thomas. I would say they are used well. Our O line is good at pass protection but meh at run blocking so we use the faster pass catchers more than the brawlers.
 

lengai

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jlwaters1":34073dj7 said:
Good write-ups above. Though I'd say it's a bit of stretch to suggest that Rob Ryan is some well regarded defensive genius. After the Cowboys parted ways he wasn't exactly a sought out commodity. He was unemployed for a while before he landed with the Saints. In fact until this success at the Saints, one could argue he has been a failure as a DC. On the Football today podcast (back when he was let go in DALL) they mentioned that Ryan had never had presided over a top 10 defense in any of his stints with the Raiders, Browns, and Cowboys and that his defenses tended to get worse over time.

I liked Cameron Jordan a lot and wanted him a few years back in the draft and was sad to see the Saints take him. It should be fun to see these 2 good defenses match up against good QB's on either side. Assuming the weather's not horrible it should be a very entertaining game.

I think New Orleans and Rob Ryan is a perfect match at the perfect time. He has the right style for the culture of the people there. The D has been clicking very well under him down to the scrubs barely any of us know. It's far from where we, as fans, thought our D would be.
 

lengai

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If you haven't seen it, the video, DrewBrees Sport Science - YouTube, is really cool. Wilson reminds me of Drew quite a bit, except he runs better.
 

citysaint

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Hawkscanner":3anozqg1 said:
That said, the question obviously is, "How much do the Saints blitz? How much pressure does that Front 4 generally create? (outside of Cameron Jordan, that is)"

Edit to add:

Second question, "It looks like in going through all the numbers that if there WERE a weakness on this Saints Defense, it would be against the run. Can you guys comment on that and/or shed some light?"

The majority of the Saints pressure is from a 4 man pass rush, Ryan ironically rarely blitzes. We are in the top 5 or so in several categories. Run defense is a weakness in comparison to being top 5 though. We are ranked 15th in run D, Seattle is ranked 16th really our teams are tit for tat. I don't see why this game isn't being hyped up as the regular season game of the year.
 

formido

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First of all, ranking units by yards is worthless.

Now, Seattle is significantly better by DVOA and they're playing at home, which is worth 16 more points of DVOA. New Orleans' strength on offense is Sproles and Graham, and Seattle's strength on pass defense (surprising to some) is defending TEs (#3 by DVOA) and RBs (#4 by DVOA), so that's neutralized. Brees is good on MNF, but so is Seattle and Russell Wilson has never lost at home. Brees' passer rating is 30 points lower on the road. The Saints are almost the worst in the NFL at stopping the run (#29 by DVOA), which is a problem going against Seattle. New Orleans won't be able to sell out to stop the run like they did against SF, because Wilson is #6 in the NFL in passer rating. If you "make Russell Wilson beat you", he'll rip off your arm and club you to death with it.

In the last two weeks, the Saints almost lost to SF and Atlanta, two teams Seattle destroyed[1]. In compiling their 10-1 record, Seattle has lost a ton of man-games from Okung (reigning Pro-Bowl LT), Unger (reigning All-Pro C), Giacomini (starting RT), and our best non-lineman pass blocker Zach Miller. And Percy Harvin. All these guys are back starting last week, and the difference was clear. After Denver's loss, Seattle will have the #1 DVOA in the NFL, and that's after having spent most of the season missing most of our pass blocking! Seattle just passed Denver in most LV Hotels for odds-on favorites to win the Super Bowl.

Look, New Orleans can win. Of course they can. But they probably won't because Seattle is a better team than they are. And if Seattle runs away with it, no one will be shocked.

A Saints win looks a lot like the Colts win earlier this year: Seattle outplays them but Saints play really well and maybe get a few breaks in a row from the officials and a lucky bounce of the ball or two.

Even if New Orleans wins, they still won't win HFA, because they have yet to play Carolina twice (Carolina is better than the Saints) AND the Rams at St. Louis who I can't rule out are now better than the Saints. Definitely aren't running that gauntlet undefeated and very possibly losing twice.

As someone said that someone else said, if New Orleans leaves Seattle without any major injuries, that should be considered a win.

[1] Note: Historically, there's no evidence division games are closer than any other games.
 

citysaint

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Why are opposing teams running more to the strong side where Bennett/Bryant and Mebane? are a virtual brick wall when you have Clemons/Avril on the weakside that are not only light in weight but overall much moreso liabilites in the run game than their teammates?

Am I missing something... I don't see your RE rotation as run stuffers at all yet teams don't take advantage or even test it for that matter. Is it Irvin playing weakside behind them?
 

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