Pete Carroll is the NFC's best coach.

[hawkfan68]

Not like Pete had a lot to work with. Kind of incredible that this team could be sitting at 10 wins after Sunday. Minus some incredible players. That's a lot to ask of ANY coach in the league. And Pete clearly has been the most successful coach in team history.

Not sure I agree. We have an incredible defense (even injured) and a top 5 QB. We are in a division with 2 free wins against SF and 2 more (should anyway) against the Cards. That means go 6-6 in remaining games and hit 10 wins with that defense and QB. Not exactly HOF material. Of course add Marshawn and you get a boost to 12-13.

We had a down year without question. Let’s see if there’s improvement next year. That’s objective evidence of a good coach. Many coaches can take generational talent to the top or near it. Likewise many can’t overcome injuries. Let’s see where Carroll takes us next year and reevaluate

It's very circular because we have a solid defense (in the face of injuries to Chancellor, Sherman, Avril, etc.) because of Pete Carroll. Players like Byron Maxwell have played much better under our coaching staff than they have anywhere else.

On the defensive side of the ball. What offensive player has Pete elevated?

No one's criticizing Pete's defensive prowess as a head coach, it's what he's ALWAYS done best. Those of us that are criticizing him aren't happy with what he's done on offense..............from the continued O-Line debacle, to the run game, to under utilizing Graham until now, to relying on his QB to make plays and not having any assemblence of an identity on the offensive side of the the ball.

The saying is "you're only as strong as your weakest link". So what would you say is the weakest link on offense? That part has hardly changed over the past few years. Yes, players have changed but the weak philosophy hasn't. That is the issue. I've seen a lot of excuses for the offensive coaches but ask this...if you were a coach on a team where the head coach handicaps you, why would you stay on? Bevell and Cable have more input on the offense that is being run than they are getting credit for. They are given more rein is why the offense is an abject failure. Remember in the past seasons, Pete would step in after 8 or 10 weeks and suddenly the offense would click. This hasn't happened this season but it seemed to be an annual event since 2015. It would be nice if Pete found coaches that can be productive with the offense he likes to run from game 1....Cable and Bevell are not it. That's the weakness here. That's what keeps holding Pete down. It's not my intention to turn this into Cable/Bevell thread but those guys are what is preventing Pete from being the top NFC coach in my opinion.

 

[Steve2222]

:irishdrinkers:

I'm talking out THIS SEASON. He hasn't had nearly as much to work with because of MAJOR injuries that happened early in the season. 10 wins, with THIS team? That's impressive. Yet if another coach did it, people would be going on and on about how great of a job he did.

Not really. The general consensus around the league is that the Seahawks underperformed this year. Pete also made a lot of questionable calls this year that proved to be quite costly.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I'm talking out THIS SEASON. He hasn't had nearly as much to work with because of MAJOR injuries that happened early in the season. 10 wins, with THIS team? That's impressive. Yet if another coach did it, people would be going on and on about how great of a job he did.

Pete's had more to work with than most of the league, AND we went out and got two Pro Bowl players during the season.

Yet here we are, hoping for help to make the playoffs.

Again, all the injuries people keep using as to why we're in the position we're in are 80% on the defensive side of the ball, and that's the only unit that's playing well.

Offense is yet again a hot mess, and healthier than just about any other team in the league right now.

Maybe we over valued our roster's talent at the beginning of the year, that's certainly a conversation worth having. But make no mistake, this team has underachieved this year, playoffs or not.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Agree to disagree. He can do better, but he's done a pretty damn good job with this team. Acting like the injuries are not a big factor is burying your head in the sand. I didn't want to believe it, but it's reality. They are not NEAR the team they would be when they are missing Sherm, Kam and Avril. 3 of their most important players. Let alone a pathetic O Line, absolutely ZERO running game etc.

 

[NJlargent]

Our offense has stunk since Marshawn left and I have seen zero improvement or progress over these past few seasons. That is a major deterrent in crowning someone #1.

I recognize the injuries issue. How about penalties?

 

[semiahmoo]

Going forward he is the 3rd best coach in the division. McVay & Shanny are better than him not in terms of body of work, just strictly in terms of going forward. Pete has more talent and does less with it.

The Niners are more banged up than the Hawks with less talent to boot, and look at what he is doing with Jimmy G. McVay took the 32nd ranked offense in the NFL in 2016, and turned it into one of the NFL's best.

This is a now and going forward ranking. Not a body of work ranking.

01 Mike Zimmer
02 Sean McVay --Rising fast.
03 Sean Payton
04 Kyle Shanahan --Rising fast.
05 Dan Quinn
06 Pete Carroll
07 Mike McCarthy
08 Doug Pederson -- Will shoot up the list if he wins an Owl with Foles. He reminds me of McCarthy though.
09 Bruce Arians
10 Jay Gruden
11 Ron Rivera
12 John Fox
13 Jim Caldwell
14 Dirk Koetter
15 Jason Garrett
16 Steve Spagnuolo

This is a fluid ranking. I had Pete Carroll #1 two years ago with Mike Zimmer nipping at his heels, and Sean Payton a distant 3rd at the time, but Pete has been slipping a lit bit every year since.

The reason I have dropped him down in the rankings is fairly obvious, and has to do with the offensive side of the ball. That needs to be fixed or he will continue to drop. It also doesn't help that the team seems more undisciplined than it ever has been under Carroll. Big changes need to come in the off-season, and I am looking forward to it.

Pete appears to be on the downward slide/one foot out the door these days.

It's been a great run but not sure he has it in him to run no more.

The above list is spot on.

 

[Uncle Si]

Our offense has stunk since Marshawn left and I have seen zero improvement or progress over these past few seasons. That is a major deterrent in crowning someone #1.

I recognize the injuries issue. How about penalties?

The loss of Marshawn has been huge really.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Absolutely, but he clearly was a major drama queen and it was time to move on w/out him.

 

[Uncle Si]

Absolutely, but he clearly was a major drama queen and it was time to move on w/out him.

I think he was less effective as well. But the team needed a proper replacement for him and hasn’t come close, thus the emphasis on RW this year.

 

[semiahmoo]

Absolutely, but he clearly was a major drama queen and it was time to move on w/out him.

True. Like some others since his departure, he had become a bigger distraction than asset.

 

[hawknation2017]

Absolutely, but he clearly was a major drama queen and it was time to move on w/out him.

We couldn't afford him and were not willing to lose others in exchange for the limited ability he had demonstrated before his "retirement." I think he's been a little better this season than some expected and has mostly avoided injury.

We would definitely be a better team with him today, assuming that wouldn't mean losing someone else better (like Brown, Richardson, McDougald, Coleman, etc.)

 

[SoulfishHawk]

From all accounts, it was getting to be professional babysitting. He did things how Marshawn wanted. One of my all time favorite players, but he had his own set of rules, period.

 

[hawknation2017]

From all accounts, it was getting to be professional babysitting. He did things how Marshawn wanted. One of my all time favorite players, but he had his own set of rules, period.

I don't think the gossip stuff played a major factor. It was mostly about salary, age, injuries, limited ability he had shown in 2015, etc. Plus, he really wanted to play in his hometown and wanted to generate interest for his Oakland-based businesses.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Seems like people spent a lot of time making excuses for him. Great player, clearly had his own rules. The team bent over backwards for him.

 

[hawknation2017]

Seems like people spent a lot of time making excuses for him. Great player, clearly had his own rules. The team bent over backwards for him.

And Marshawn bent over backwards for the team while he was here. He went to war every week for us, took a brutal pounding, and I don't know of any player who was as dedicated to his post-game recovery.

The fact that so many other RBs have failed to hold up further demonstrates how special Marshawn was and how much he did for this team.

 

[hawkfan68]

Seems like people spent a lot of time making excuses for him. Great player, clearly had his own rules. The team bent over backwards for him.

Plenty of players have their own rules. Tom Brady, Antonio Brown, etc play by their own rules. Some of them are still playing for the Seahawks. Marshawn laid it out each week as Seahawk. For that I'm eternally grateful. I wish he would have stayed a Seahawk. The Seahawks could have benefitted from him this year.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

All in how you look at it. Unreal player, but far from perfect, even if people seem to always act as if he was w/out fault. Oh well, we got his best years, and the team was better for it.

 

[EverydayImRusselin]

I'm talking out THIS SEASON. He hasn't had nearly as much to work with because of MAJOR injuries that happened early in the season. 10 wins, with THIS team? That's impressive. Yet if another coach did it, people would be going on and on about how great of a job he did.

Pete's had more to work with than most of the league, AND we went out and got two Pro Bowl players during the season.

Yet here we are, hoping for help to make the playoffs.

Again, all the injuries people keep using as to why we're in the position we're in are 80% on the defensive side of the ball, and that's the only unit that's playing well.

Offense is yet again a hot mess, and healthier than just about any other team in the league right now.

Maybe we over valued our roster's talent at the beginning of the year, that's certainly a conversation worth having. But make no mistake, this team has underachieved this year, playoffs or not.

Not at all true.

Starting RB on IR
Starting LT on IR forced a backup in for a few games and forced them to make a trade mid season
Starting LG missed 4?? games
Starting RG on IR

This team has been hit by a ton of injuries.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

It flat out IS a factor. Not an excuse, reality.

 

[Scorpion05]

I'm gonna have to side with Sgt. Largent here. Although Rex Ryan can't even be mentioned in the same sentence as Pete, I'll do it anyway. Rex's problem was always that he couldn't find a QB. Rex had one or two good years of a solid run game but couldn't sustain it

Pete should honestly thank his lucky stars that Russell Wilson is 5'10 and fell to them in the draft. Without that, we'd be stuck with Matt Flynn for 2 years and whatever other contraption Pete could think of. Of course, you can say that about any coach, you need a franchise QB

I think Pete convinced himself he could pay the defense, take Russell's mobility for granted (we saw how that turned out last year), and hope the O-line gels over time. In reality, he needs to invest more in the offense. As much as I criticize Bevell, I sometimes wonder what he'd look like with a great o-line. Maybe those bubble screens and reverses would work. Maybe those long developing plays would work? I fear we may never find out.

Same thing with Cable. Fact is, we're also judging him on the garbage that's been our o-line/running game the last two years. But what has he had to work with? Great o-line talent? Ehh. Great running back talent? Again, debatable. Would anyone outside of maybe Kyle Shanahan and Sean McVay be able to make soup out of our chicken shit? And even then, one of the first things McVay did was sure up the O-line and bring in Robert Woods, who's been key to their offense.

So idk, but I will say I can't imagine many coaches getting more than 10 wins with this team as constructed WITH the injuries. Even Belicheck could have lost to the Bucs, Texans, and couple others with their poor defense early on. We need to look at our team more objectively as well. And the Jets, Bills, and Dolphins are NOTTTT the Rams, Cardinals, and Jimmy GQ Niners