NFL Future Power Rankings

[RolandDeschain]

Care to justify your agreement about the 49ers drafting better than us, and having a better front office? I see no evidence to support that.

 

[Marvin49]

I always find it interesting when people attribute most of the 49ers drafting success to McCoughan and not Baalke. I liked McLoughan, so don't get me wrong...but it's not like Baalke hasn't been here building those draft boards from day 1.

The "Baalke worked from McCloughans board in 2010" always cracks me up. As if the GM sits in his room by himself and nobody else has a hand. Baalke was also the man in the chair on draft day who was pulling the trigger on those trades.

McCloughan gets huge credit for selections of players like Gore, Vernon Davis, Willis, Staley, Crabtree, McDonald. He also went out and signed Justin Smith. There is no question he did well. If he could control his drinking, he'd still be the GM.

Lets look at the Baalke drafts pick by pick tho...just to see how those picks have turned out...

2010
1 11 11 Anthony Davis T Rutgers - Very good RT
1 17 17 Mike Iupati G Idaho - All-Pro guard
2 17 49 Taylor Mays S USC - Total Bust. Turns out he was a Singletary pick...Baalke never really wanted him...which is why once Sing was out of the building Mays was traded away for a 7. Baalke wanted Nate Allen who went a few picks earlier.
3 27 91 Navorro Bowman OLB Penn State - All-Pro LB
6 4 173 Anthony Dixon RB Mississippi State - Decent reserve RB, good special teamer
6 13 182 Nate Byham TE Pittsburgh - Got hurt after a year with the team and was released the following year. I think he's in Baltimore now.
6 37 206 Kyle Williams WR Arizona State - Was starting to play well at WR before the torn ACL last year. Unfortunately will always be remembered for a fumble.
7 17 224 Phillip Adams CB South Carolina State - Broke Ankle as a rookie and never got another shot in SF. Spent some time with the Raiders.


2011
1 7 7 Aldon Smith DE Missouri - 33.5 Sacks in 2 seasons. He's pretty good and looks like he'll be in the top 10 on the NFL Network Players list.
2 4 36 Colin Kaepernick QB Nevada - We love to argue over here about how good this guy is/will be but I think we can all agree it was a great pick.
3 16 80 Chris Culliver S South Carolina - Played very well during the regular season last year and then kinda fell flat in the playoffs. Needs to learn to keep his mouth shut as well.
4 18 115 Kendall Hunter RB Oklahoma State - Really good #2 back and possible replacement to Gore. Was up over 5 yards per carry before he tore his achilles last year.
5 32 163 Daniel Kilgore G Appalachian State - Has played quite a bit in 6 and 7 lineman sets and appears to be the future at center....possibly as soon as this year if he beats out Goodwin.
6 17 182 Ronald Johnson WR USC - Bust pick. Never really did anything.
6 25 190 Colin Jones S TCU - Drafted primarily as a special teamer and was very good at that. Traded away because they didn't think they'd have an available roster spot for him.
7 8 211 Bruce Miller OLB UCF - College DE drafted to play FB. Has been a pro Bowl alternate and has been a very good pick.
7 38 239 Mike Person T Montana State - Spent time on the practive aquad but has never really developed.
7 49 250 Curtis Holcomb CB Florida A&M - Tore ACL (I think?) and never really got another shot.


2012
First off I have to say that this draft is NEARLY as bad as has been advertised. The 49ers didn't have very many open roster spots to start so traded a number of their picks for 2013 picks and drafted injured players to redshirt.
1 30 30 15 A.J. Jenkins WR Illinois - Came into camp out of shape and clearly wasn't ready from the start. Disappointing rookie campaign but appears to have gotten the message. He spent the offseason working with Kaep and has gained 10 lbs.
2 30 61 19 LaMichael James RB Oregon - Was totally lost at the start but when Hunter got hurt he got his shot and played very well. Also put on another 10 lbs this offseason so is up to 205 lbs.
4 22 117 11 Joe Looney G Wake Forest - Injured his foot in Senior Bowl so was taken later than projected and essentially redshirted. He'll battle at guard and center this year.
5 30 165 1 Darius Fleming OLB Notre Dame - Tore ACL in first practice with team. Back this year and playing both ILB and OLB
6 10 180 4 Trenton Robinson S Michigan State - Mostly a special teamer...battling for roster spot this year.
6 30 199 5 Jason Slowey G Western Oregon - REALLY small school pick. Risky pick didn't work out...didn't make the team.
7 30 237 0 Cameron Johnson DE Virginia - Physical phenom with little production in College. Hurt his knee and was recovering all year. Battling now at OLB.


2013
1 18 18 24 Eric Reid FS LSU - Essentially, a far cheaper replacement for Dashon Goldson. Will he be as good? Time will tell. Some might have issue with moving as high as 18 to get him, but it only cost them a 3 to do so. He fits what they do and Harbaugh has loved the guy since he tried to recruit him to Stanford.
2 8 40 11 Cornellius Carradine DE Florida St. - Value Pick. Some had him as a high 1st rounder before the torn ACL. He may get on the field this year or he may not and get a redshirt year like Looney. Possibly eventual replacement for Justin Smith who thankfully signed a CHEAP 2 year extension.
2 23 55 8 Vance McDonald TE Rice - Physically the best TE in the draft. Unfortunately, he was more WR than TE in college. He's got alot to learn and his hands are questionable. We'll see how he develops. The hope is he can move into that #2 TE Delanie Walker role.
3 26 88 4 Corey Lemonier DE Auburn - Would probabaly have been a much higher pick the year before, but Auburn sucking so bad hurt his production. He'll have to learn to play OLB as he played DE in college. We'll see how it works out.
4 31 128 12 Quinton Patton WR Louisiana Tech - Love this pick. Has looked good without pads so far. We'll see.
4 34 131 8 Marcus Lattimore RB South Carolina - Value Pick. He won't see the field this year. When Gore is done, the Niners will still have Kendall Hunter, LaMichael James, and Marcus Lattimore to try to fill that role.
5 24 157 7 Quinton Dial DE Alabama - Drafte for depth on D-Line
6 12 180 6 Nick Moody OLB Florida St. - Playing ILB behind Willis/Bowman, but is on the field largely because of his Special Teams abilities.
7 31 237 11 B.J. Daniels QB South Florida - Odd pick. They are polaying him at QB, RB, WR, and even returning punts.
7 40 246 2 Carter Bykowski OT Iowa St. - TE turned T. We'll see.
7 46 252 1 Marcus Cooper CB Rutgers - Wasn't even a starter in college. LONG corner who has been spending alot of time with Nnamdi. Have no idea on this one.


I realize this is a Seattle forum so posting about all the Niner picks isn't going to create great interest, but it would be great if someone could break down Seattles picks over that same timeframe to really compare. My point here is that the current 49ers FO isn't "average" as someone above posted. Thats ludicrous. Seattles is damn good as well...in fact those 2 may be working the draft the best out of any 2 teams in the NFL. In fact, you guys may end up looking at this past draft in similar terms to how 49er fans view the 2012 draft....very few holes to fill, not many of them will contribute right away.

 

[Marvin49]

Atayla, a couple questions about your post. Sorry I can't copy it on my cell and please excuse spelling but how much credit is the right amount for Balkes 2010 draft? No doubt he deserves credit but McClouhan was involved up to a month prior so it is likely safe to believe he had a hand in assembling that board and could be questioned if he had a huge hand in it. Letting him go a month before the draft kind of suggests they wanted his input but not his interference, doesn't it?

You also said Balke has brought in over 30 udfa's that were a big part of the last couple of years. Would you mind providing some examples? I am not arguing it but I can only think of a few that got regular playing time and none that would be comparable to BMW, Baldwin or Gaicomini for example.

From reports at the time, as well as those following the release of McCloughan -- it appears that the move at the administrative level was already made prior to the combine. The amount of influence McCloughan had in the 2010 draft is questionable. The organization was pretty tight lipped about the situation at the time, but after his release they downplayed his role in the 2010 draft. Now that could be just them trying to spin a decidedly odd parting of the ways. But there is no actual reporting that McCloughan did impact that draft.

If the decision to let him go was made around the time it was reported he was on the outs -- then it's more likely that McCloughan didn't have much to do with the draft. Baalke would have certainly been in a more authoritative position on prospects as Director of player personnel and being organizationally closer to the scouting department than McCloughan.

Remember, Baalke wasn't named GM until January of 2011. But he was a company man for the organization and had a strong hand in both signing and scouting players as part of his duties prior to McCloughan leaving. He was in essence an interim GM for 7 months -- and the reports say it was closer to a year.

As for signings:

T Alex Boone
LB Ahmad Brooks
CB Carlos Rogers
C Jonathan Goodwin
S Donte Whitner


Trades:

Kentwan Balmer to Seattle
Taylor Mays to Cincinnati


Those moves, outside of the normal garbage moves stand out. Getting anything for Balmer and Mays was kind of like us getting something for Tarvaris.

I don't want to make it sound like a niner apologist. Far from it. But SF didn't get to where they are by mistake. And because we see the older talent (Willis, Staley, Davis, Justin Smith) on the roster -- it's very easy to assume they are old. But the core of that team is still young as we are. Replacing Smith is going to be they key move for them. I'm gratified that they didn't do that this year.

I would agree, that we do far better at getting talent late. But I also concede that SF has done a much better job than we have of stockpiling higher picks that they don't waste. Literally, Seattle and SF are two halves of the perfect front office. They don't whiff on their day 1 picks as we do. They do a better job of getting more return for the picks they do trade away than we do. We draft much better than they do. And we develop rookie talent much better than they do.

I do think, that this 2013 draft is the one that will cement SF's drafting acumen. They had incredible draft capital in the first several rounds in a draft that was historically deep. If they fail to develop more starters from this draft than we do, then I'd say they got lucky early and are not capable of sustaining this rivalry. The one thing that cannot be said about Seattle, is that we are inconsistent. We get impact in every draft, in multiple areas of the draft. This year, despite a handicap on draft capital -- looks to be a typically great Seahawks draft.

The only thing I would say to that is that they "MAY" have gotten Justin Smiths eventual replacement in Tank Carradine. Plus, they just resigned Justin for 2 more years...CHEAP.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Marvin, Mike Sando did break down the last three years of picks by our teams a while back. Seattle wins. 5 players with either Pro Bowl or All Pro nominations drafted by the Seahawks, 4 by the 49ers; and 3 of your 4 were drafted in the 1st round, with 1 in the 3rd. We drafted 2 of our 5 in the 1st round, 1 in the 3rd, and 2 in the 5th. Not only did Schneider draft an additional great player more than Baalke, but he did most of it in mid/later rounds, which saves us a ton of money for the first several years on all those contracts.

It is impossible to assert that Baalke is better than, or equal to, John Schneider right now.

 

[Marvin49]

Marvin, Mike Sando did break down the last three years of picks by our teams a while back. Seattle wins. 5 players with either Pro Bowl or All Pro nominations drafted by the Seahawks, 4 by the 49ers; and 3 of your 4 were drafted in the 1st round, with 1 in the 3rd. We drafted 2 of our 5 in the 1st round, 1 in the 3rd, and 2 in the 5th. Not only did Schneider draft an additional great player more than Baalke, but he did most of it in mid/later rounds, which saves us a ton of money for the first several years on all those contracts.

It is impossible to assert that Baalke is better than, or equal to, John Schneider right now.

You're entire draft isn't about all-pros or pro bowlers. The Niners have several players who are sitting behind great players who simply haven't gotten a shot. I'm sure the same might be said for the Seahawks.

It also doesn't matter when a player is selected. In fact, you could make the argument that its better to get a star player in the 1st round because they will be ona 5 year deal instead of a 4 year deal...IE...get them longer cheaper.

I'm not making the argument that Baalke is better then Schneider...just saying both these teams have drafted VERY well and BOTH are among the best front offices in the NFL.

 

[RolandDeschain]

It doesn't matter when a player is selected? Disagree. It matters to cap space, though obviously nowhere near as much before the rookie salary cap restrictions in the new CBA, and if the majority of your entire starting team is from the 1st round of your own drafts you are way more likely to run into either cap problems or depth problems over time.

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

You're entire draft isn't about all-pros or pro bowlers. The Niners have several players who are sitting behind great players who simply haven't gotten a shot. I'm sure the same might be said for the Seahawks.

It also doesn't matter when a player is selected. In fact, you could make the argument that its better to get a star player in the 1st round because they will be ona 5 year deal instead of a 4 year deal...IE...get them longer cheaper.

I'm not making the argument that Baalke is better then Schneider...just saying both these teams have drafted VERY well and BOTH are among the best front offices in the NFL.

I alluded to this earlier as well. San Francisco had carry over talent (young carry over talent) in 2010. We blew up our roster in a pretty epic way. The situations aren't exactly equivalent. Trying to compare the successes relative to each other during that time is doing so from an unequal basis.

However, I'd say that they are pretty close to it now. Given how quickly we've been able to stock the roster, we are probably only 18 months behind SF now in terms of roster maturity as it pertains to core players. Both teams have loaded rosters and will be picking late. It's more of an apples to apples comparison now.

I also don't see the niners draft results as average -- YET. However 2012 was a huge gaffe. If they duplicate that level of insignificance this year, I would be seriously worried as a niners fan going forward. That would indeed put them closer to average and seriously impugn their ability to get talent outside of the first hour or two of day 1.

Seattle and San Fransisco are good teams. They aren't picking in the top half of the rounds. Their ability to get talent late in the rounds and deep in the draft is going to be key to maintaining competitiveness. Seattle really has no concerns about getting talent late. They've proven it every single year and it sure looks like they've proven it again this year too.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Almost all of our best player are young as hell, too. The Seahawks are going to be downright scary in a couple of years.

 

[Marvin49]

It doesn't matter when a player is selected? Disagree. It matters to cap space, though obviously nowhere near as much before the rookie salary cap restrictions in the new CBA, and if the majority of your entire starting team is from the 1st round of your own drafts you are way more likely to run into either cap problems or depth problems over time.

Not if those players were taken in the first round and have an additional year locking them into those rookie contracts. 1st round picks are signed for 5 years. Every other round is signed for 4 years. That was my point.

Wouldn't you rather be paying Richard Sherman as a first round pick for 5 rather than a later round pick for 4?

The bottom line tho....BOTH teams are going to run into salary cap problems. The reason is because all of those players are outplaying whatever contracts they signed and will need HUGE extensions...or the team will let them walk.

Its already happening in SF...thats why they let Dashon Goldson walk. They couldn't pay him that much money and still be able to resign the guys they will need to resign. Its also the reason why all of the talk of the 49ers being involved in talks for Revis or Harvin were completely bogus...they could never have afforded to pay those huge salaries AND be able to resign Kaep, Crab and several others in the coming years.

Would it be nice to pick up great players late in the draft? Of course it would...but I'm not going to sit here and say that The Seahawks are better because their really good picks were the later ones. It just makes me wonder why they can't do as well early as they do late.

 

[Disp]

I'd be hesitant to use that general of a statement, personally. He's a great coach, don't misunderstand me; but in fact, he came in and used virtually the same exact set of starting players the previous regime had and got significantly more mileage out of them.

You don't actually believe that though right? Only 12 of the 22 offensive/defensive starters were the same from 2010 to 2011.

A year down the road I don't see how it matters what round a player is drafted in. You're talking a difference of $1mil/yr. for a second round pick compared to $550k for a 7'th. All that matters is how many impact players the team gets in that draft. Sherman getting drafted in the 5th round doesn't make him a better player than if he had been drafted in the 2'nd, and the contract would be a whopping $1.5-2mil. difference over 4 years. It especially doesn't matter as those players get their second contract, which a lot of both teams young players are coming up on.

 

[Marvin49]

You're entire draft isn't about all-pros or pro bowlers. The Niners have several players who are sitting behind great players who simply haven't gotten a shot. I'm sure the same might be said for the Seahawks.

It also doesn't matter when a player is selected. In fact, you could make the argument that its better to get a star player in the 1st round because they will be ona 5 year deal instead of a 4 year deal...IE...get them longer cheaper.

I'm not making the argument that Baalke is better then Schneider...just saying both these teams have drafted VERY well and BOTH are among the best front offices in the NFL.

I alluded to this earlier as well. San Francisco had carry over talent (young carry over talent) in 2010. We blew up our roster in a pretty epic way. The situations aren't exactly equivalent. Trying to compare the successes relative to each other during that time is doing so from an unequal basis.

However, I'd say that they are pretty close to it now. Given how quickly we've been able to stock the roster, we are probably only 18 months behind SF now in terms of roster maturity as it pertains to core players. Both teams have loaded rosters and will be picking late. It's more of an apples to apples comparison now.

I also don't see the niners draft results as average -- YET. However 2012 was a huge gaffe. If they duplicate that level of insignificance this year, I would be seriously worried as a niners fan going forward. That would indeed put them closer to average and seriously impugn their ability to get talent outside of the first hour or two of day 1.

Seattle and San Fransisco are good teams. They aren't picking in the top half of the rounds. Their ability to get talent late in the rounds and deep in the draft is going to be key to maintaining competitiveness. Seattle really has no concerns about getting talent late. They've proven it every single year and it sure looks like they've proven it again this year too.

Well...

1) I'd agree the 49ers were farther into the rebuild process when Baalke took over.

2) I also agree about the 18 month thing. The Niners to me are like a year ahead...not in that they are a year better....but a year ahead of some of the problems that Seattle will eventually run into as well. Just like SF, Seattle will eventually lose some players because they can't afford to resign them AND resign the guys they will need to later. Kaep will likely need a huge new deal next year when the CBA allows. Wilson probably the year after.

3) People who call the 2012 draft a gaffe really aren't paying attention. Jenkins was a disappointment as the #1, but James looked really good, Looney was injured when he was selected so was never going to be an immmediate impact player, and two of the other picks were injured. They traded several picks for picks THIS year which is one of the reasons why they at one point had 15 selections. The 49ers simply didn't have many open roster spots so they picked up better selections THIS year instead of making those picks LAST year. They were even able to do it again this year when they traded down in round 2 and got another 3 next year. Depending on what compensatory pick they get for Goldson and how well Alex Smith does in KC, they'll very possibly have a 1, 2 2's and 3 3's or a 1, a 2, and FOUR 3's.

4) As a Niner fan, I'm REALLY not worried. The 49ers have shown the ability to somehow almost always get the better of any draft day trade. Even when selecting at the bottom of round one they give up only a 3 to move up 13 spots. They then replace the 3 next year by moving back only 6 spots in round 2. They compile tons of picks to give them the ability to move up and down in the draft and go get the guys they want. They trade UP for Reid, Down for Carradine, and then back up again for McDonald. People who point to the 2012 draft as an example of some "ineptitude" simply don't understand what the 49ers goals were in that draft. I'm sure they would have liked to see much more from Jenkins, but the rest of the picks were never going to see much playing time anyway. That was why they traded out to 2013 in the first place.

 

[RolandDeschain]

You don't actually believe that though right? Only 12 of the 22 offensive/defensive starters were the same from 2010 to 2011.

I should have phrased it differently. Of the 10 different players, only TWO of them were not already on the 2010 49ers team. (Goodwin and Rogers.) So, 20 of your starting 22 were already 49ers when Harbaugh took over. That is remarkably rare. You'd be hard-pressed to find a case of a new head coach in and starting 20 of 22 people that were already on the team. The Steelers brought in two new starters when Tomlin took over after they won* Super Bowl XL in FB C. Davis and C S. Mahan, I see; and that's a team that just won the Super Bowl with a head coach that retired.

I challenge you to find another instance of a coach coming into a team with a perennial losing record like Harbaugh did and only bring in two new starters of the starting 22 that weren't already on the roster.

Harbaugh had a ton of talent to already work with when he came to S.F.

 

[Marvin49]

You don't actually believe that though right? Only 12 of the 22 offensive/defensive starters were the same from 2010 to 2011.

I should have phrased it differently. Of the 10 different players, only TWO of them were not already on the 2010 49ers team. (Goodwin and Rogers.) So, 20 of your starting 22 were already 49ers when Harbaugh took over. That is remarkably rare. You'd be hard-pressed to find a case of a new head coach in and starting 20 of 22 people that were already on the team. The Steelers brought in two new starters when Tomlin took over after they won* Super Bowl XL in FB C. Davis and C S. Mahan, I see; and that's a team that just won the Super Bowl with a head coach that retired.

I challenge you to find another instance of a coach coming into a team with a perennial losing record like Harbaugh did and only bring in two new starters of the starting 22 that weren't already on the roster.

Harbaugh had a ton of talent to already work with when he came to S.F.

I really don't understand why people are so caught up in that. Who cares?

The old coaches had that talent and did nothing. He came in and did something. Is this supposed to prove that Carroll is better or something?

 

[RolandDeschain]

The old coaches had that talent and did nothing. He came in and did something. Is this supposed to prove that Carroll is better or something?

Eh, that wasn't my intent, but I do think Harbaugh is overrated overall as a head coach. Being a head coach is a lot more than utilizing the players on your roster as well as possible, and frankly, that task falls primarily to the position coaches and offensive and defensive coordinators anyways. Harbaugh's smartest move as a pro coach to date was simplifying the playbook for Alex Smith, IMO. (Well, I'm not sure that was Harbaugh, but presumably it was.) He also definitely knows how to coach during game time. Again, though, there's quite a bit more to that for a head coach.

I will be curious to see how talent-stacked the 49ers roster is in 2-3 years.

 

[Marvin49]

The old coaches had that talent and did nothing. He came in and did something. Is this supposed to prove that Carroll is better or something?

Eh, that wasn't my intent, but I do think Harbaugh is overrated overall as a head coach. Being a head coach is a lot more than utilizing the players on your roster as well as possible, and frankly, that task falls primarily to the position coaches and offensive and defensive coordinators anyways. Harbaugh's smartest move as a pro coach to date was simplifying the playbook for Alex Smith, IMO. (Well, I'm not sure that was Harbaugh, but presumably it was.) He also definitely knows how to coach during game time. Again, though, there's quite a bit more to that for a head coach.

I will be curious to see how talent-stacked the 49ers roster is in 2-3 years.

You are correct...part of being a good head coach is being able to sign and keep very good assistant coaches...which Harbaugh has done. As for the "simplify the offense", that is correct to a point, but its really what he's done at every one of his stops. Thats HIS offense. He did it at USD and he did it at Stanford. His offense makes the read progression easier and makes it much easier for a QB to be sure of his decision. That was Alex Smiths biggest weakness and why Alex suddenly thrived. It's why EVERY QB HARBAUGH HAS EVER HAD has thrived (Craig Mortenson, Josh Johnson, Andrew Luck, Alex Smith, Colin Kaepernick). What is most important as a coach is knowing how to put your players in a position to succeed, and Harbaugh has done that in spades.

We will never know how Harbaugh would have performed if given a much poorer roster to begin with. All we can do is judge him based on the fact that the two coaches prior to him could do nothing with that talent and he has taken his team to the NFC Championship Game and the Super Bowl.

Harbaugh is not overrated. He is overhated.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Harbaugh is not overrated. He is overhated.

Naw, he seems to be hated at about the right level. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

 

[kearly]

My point here is that the current 49ers FO isn't "average" as someone above posted. Thats ludicrous.

Remind me, how was SF doing with that same FO before Jim Harbaugh came in and turned chicken shit into chicken salad? I seem to remember a LOT of losing seasons. Almost a decade of them. Regarding the 49ers FO in recent years, they've broken even (at best) in FA and even most of their really good picks from recent years are manufactured successes (Aldon Smith needed the right situation to thrive, Colin Kaepernick needs a very specific kind of offense with a great coach who just happened to be a former clutch NFL QB; both are both very structure dependent).

I think SF is one of the elite teams in the league, but it's mostly because of your coach and how he maximizes talent. In fairness, I think Seattle is somewhat similar (to a lesser degree) in terms of being carried by the coaching staff more than the FO (JS is a top shelf GM, but his drafts look great because Pete's coaching crew are masters of talent development, and Pete has got his fingerprints all over the FA additions). Didn't mean anything as a rip on SF, I just think your FO is merely okay while your head coach is maybe the best in the NFL.

 

[SoHo9erFan]

Harbaugh made that team what it is, no area more than the QB position.

I'd be hesitant to use that general of a statement, personally. He's a great coach, don't misunderstand me; but in fact, he came in and used virtually the same exact set of starting players the previous regime had and got significantly more mileage out of them. Mostly on offense by dumbing down the playbook and replacing a lot of the coaching staff under him. He didn't "make" much in the general sense of the word. Pete Carroll is someone who has made significantly more than Harbaugh has in the last couple of years. That doesn't mean he's better at coaching than Harbaugh, but as of right now, Harbaugh hasn't demonstrated that he can make/build anything, IMO.

How many times have you been corrected on this??? Do you even read other peoples posts?

When Harbaugh came in, he made 6 NEW STARTERS on the defense: brought in Whitner (1) from FA, brought in Carlos Rogers (2) from FA, started Ray McDonald (3) even though he was a 15 snaps a game guy his first 4 seasons, Ahmad Brooks (4) started for the first time in his career even though he was a perennial backup, started Aldon Smith (5) after he was drafted "too early" by Baalke, elected to let Takeo Spikes go and decided to start second year player NaVarro Bowman (6).

This doesn't even include resigning Goldson to a 1-year contract that was worth less than a million dollars.

That defense was ranked #1 that year. How does Harbaugh not get credit for that???? How is this "virtually the same exact starting players"??????

Get over your hate of Harbaugh

 

[sc85sis]

Pete, Jim (and now Chip) have been able to give their respective teams the added advantage of a head coach who is essentially also a scout. Coming from the college game, all of these guys are far more aware of the talent coming into the draft. That advantage dissipates the longer they're in the NFL.

 

[Marvin49]

My point here is that the current 49ers FO isn't "average" as someone above posted. Thats ludicrous.

Remind me, how was SF doing with that same FO before Jim Harbaugh came in and turned chicken shit into chicken salad? I seem to remember a LOT of losing seasons. Almost a decade of them. Regarding the 49ers FO in recent years, they've broken even (at best) in FA and even most of their really good picks from recent years are manufactured successes (Aldon Smith needed the right situation to thrive, Colin Kaepernick needs a very specific kind of offense with a great coach who just happened to be a former clutch NFL QB; both are both very structure dependent).

I think SF is one of the elite teams in the league, but it's mostly because of your coach and how he maximizes talent. In fairness, I think Seattle is somewhat similar (to a lesser degree) in terms of being carried by the coaching staff more than the FO (JS is a top shelf GM, but his drafts look great because Pete's coaching crew are masters of talent development, and Pete has got his fingerprints all over the FA additions). Didn't mean anything as a rip on SF, I just think your FO is merely okay while your head coach is maybe the best in the NFL.

This always cracks me up.

Baalke gets no credit because McCloughan was here before. Then Harbaugh gets no credit because he inherited a good team. Now the front office gets no credit because they couldn't win BEFORE Harbaugh.

I swear...its like hitting a moving target all the time when talking on these forums. LOL. You'll just make any "point" that makes Seattle better. Thats it. Any rational will do.

As for the manufactured success....jeez...are you serious with that? Really? Good coaches put their players in a position to succeed. Thats "Good Coach 101". If you are suggesting that any of Seattles success is NOT manufactured in the same way...that would lead me to believe the coaching ISN'T good. I'm not saying that BTW, I'm just saying the argument is ludicrous.

Aldon Smith? If there was a way to manufacture 33.5 sacks in a guys first 2 seasons in the league, every coach ever in the history of the NFL would have manufactured it. Kaep? Guess what homey, Seattle is running a VERY similar offense....does that make Wilson "manufactured"? I know you say its somewhat similar...its more than somewhat.

Draft: Aldon Smith. Colin Kaepernick. Mike Iupati. Navorro Bowman. Anthony Davis. Bruce Miller. Kendall Hunter. LaMichael James. Chris Culliver.

Undrafted Free Agent: Alex Boone.

Free Agency: Carlos Rogers. Donte Whitner.

This is only 3 years and doesn't include this offseason. The FO strategy is to build in the draft and resign their own players. Your Comment about their Free Agency record neglects to point out that they are never big free agency players. They bargain shop and at times get good bargains.

This front office also got something done previously thought all but impossible...they got a stadium built. The first one in the state of California (for pro football) in over 40 years.