NBA STARS..Past vs Present

[chris98251]

Players of today don't have the heart to play the game like those of yesteryear, Willis Reed, Chamberlin, Baylor, Robinson, Jabbar, Lanier, Moses Malone, Bird, Magic, I can go on played defense, played hurt, played with all around skill sets like defense, passing, freethrow shooting, except Chamberlin, they played team ball as well and team defense. Gary Payton can be thrown in that mix as well. so many really. Go back to the 80's 70's and late 60's. It was a tougher game Wes Unseld was a tough SOB to get into the paint with yet wasn't a 7 footer either. Cowens another under 7 ft center that was a nightmare to play against because he was tough.

Todays players have a lot of flash and athletic ability, they don't have the heart and desire to get through a tough challange in my opinion, they have the quit mentality and blame game going on so much it really is sad. They think more about contracts then championships.

 

[IndyHawk]

LeBron would have scored 150 points a game if he was transported in history to Chamberlain days.

Defense in the 80's and 90's was certainly more physical, but let's not pretend like the players today couldn't physically handle it... because they could. They just call the game far more closely nowadays.

Man thats something I can't agree with,for one thing no 3 point shots for Lebron and he won't get as many foul calls. He is not scoring 150 pts on Wilt..The guy was a shot blocking and rebounding machine..Throwdown he averaged 40+ multiple seasons..50 one year..Some of you may want to scroll through the you tube vids on Wilt..He was 7:3 300+ of solid muscle..He led the league in assists one year -1971 I think..He was the only one who could block Kareems skyhook..He taught Jordan the fadeaway..Bad knees slowed him down some later(Lakers) but he still was a great player..In fact in his late 40's he had teams in the 80's asking if wanted to comeback..He's my number 1 and as Jerry West said.."A player for the ages"..Throwdown-I liked the "dream "he impressed me with how much better he got after school..It wasn't about just dunks..Didn't he own Shaq?

 

[mbtitleist]

Players of today don't have the heart to play the game like those of yesteryear, Willis Reed, Chamberlin, Baylor, Robinson, Jabbar, Lanier, Moses Malone, Bird, Magic, I can go on played defense, played hurt, played with all around skill sets like defense, passing, freethrow shooting, except Chamberlin, they played team ball as well and team defense. Gary Payton can be thrown in that mix as well. so many really. Go back to the 80's 70's and late 60's. It was a tougher game Wes Unseld was a tough SOB to get into the paint with yet wasn't a 7 footer either. Cowens another under 7 ft center that was a nightmare to play against because he was tough.

Todays players have a lot of flash and athletic ability, they don't have the heart and desire to get through a tough challange in my opinion, they have the quit mentality and blame game going on so much it really is sad. They think more about contracts then championships.

This is just comical. I'm not saying every star today would be a star 20-40 years ago, but to say that nobody currently playing has heart is hilarious.

 

[IndyHawk]

Players of today don't have the heart to play the game like those of yesteryear, Willis Reed, Chamberlin, Baylor, Robinson, Jabbar, Lanier, Moses Malone, Bird, Magic, I can go on played defense, played hurt, played with all around skill sets like defense, passing, freethrow shooting, except Chamberlin, they played team ball as well and team defense. Gary Payton can be thrown in that mix as well. so many really. Go back to the 80's 70's and late 60's. It was a tougher game Wes Unseld was a tough SOB to get into the paint with yet wasn't a 7 footer either. Cowens another under 7 ft center that was a nightmare to play against because he was tough.

Todays players have a lot of flash and athletic ability, they don't have the heart and desire to get through a tough challange in my opinion, they have the quit mentality and blame game going on so much it really is sad. They think more about contracts then championships.

You nailed quite a lot on the head..I question todays players being better shooters though..I'll take a Pistol Pete,Larry Bird,Sam Perkins,Stockton and I know I'm missing so many others...But great to see I'm not the only one who see's the game for what it's become..One thing about"flash"if you did it back then..They had enforcers like Oakley and Lambier who would grab you by the neck and slam you ..Brutal stuff :lol:

 

[chris98251]

Players of today don't have the heart to play the game like those of yesteryear, Willis Reed, Chamberlin, Baylor, Robinson, Jabbar, Lanier, Moses Malone, Bird, Magic, I can go on played defense, played hurt, played with all around skill sets like defense, passing, freethrow shooting, except Chamberlin, they played team ball as well and team defense. Gary Payton can be thrown in that mix as well. so many really. Go back to the 80's 70's and late 60's. It was a tougher game Wes Unseld was a tough SOB to get into the paint with yet wasn't a 7 footer either. Cowens another under 7 ft center that was a nightmare to play against because he was tough.

Todays players have a lot of flash and athletic ability, they don't have the heart and desire to get through a tough challange in my opinion, they have the quit mentality and blame game going on so much it really is sad. They think more about contracts then championships.

This is just comical. I'm not saying every star today would be a star 20-40 years ago, but to say that nobody currently playing has heart is hilarious.

Very few, obviously your too young to know the players of those eras and the style of play. What you seen on the floor about giving it up for the team versus running to the bench for a hang nail. Guys making the last pass versus pulling up for a three, guys standing their ground on a driving player, guys actually working for a rebound and boxing out. Guys setting a pick and actually getting a pass off a roll and then a kick out pass when the defense collapsed. Guys doing transitional defense and handing off guys and picking up another rather then watching someone go one on one.

Bill Russell would make most of todays players look pedestrian, never had a great outside shot, then again he worked inside the paint so well he didn't need to develop one really but played every aspect of the game and could not be outworked.

If you took the bodies of current players and put the mental toughness and heart in them of the players in the past you would have a whole new level of basketball.

 

[Smelly McUgly]

I don't want to dismiss people's opinions too out of here, but a lot the criticisms here are "BACK IN MY DAY" old dude crap. Bill Russell would get rolled by a dude like Hakeem Olajuwon, who had a shot, better footwork, and more size. Athletes get BETTER every year. You can talk about all the "WELL, GUYS BOXED OUT IN THE '70s" stuff you want, but the truth is that most of these guys played ball on courts with people that played tougher than the dudes of the '70s. Coming up in the neighborhood, they got their share of elbows, checks, etc. Acting like they're not tough or they have no heart, as if you can make the highest level of basketball in the world without having heart or real mental toughness, is just not true.

And before anyone says it, I have seen lots of basketball from the '60s, '70s, and '80s. I still have a ton of VHS tapes that the NBA put out with old games, old clips of games, etc. I was all about NBA games on ESPN Classic. I've seen the famous Willis Reed game, Walton limping up and down the court in Portland, the Bird and Magic teams of the '80s, etc. I just haven't totally romanticized this stuff like some of you posting here.

 

[chris98251]

Bill Russell played against Chamberlin, there isn't or has not been a more physical speciman at that position since he played. There has been some big men, but not one that looked like a body builder and could move as well as Chamberlin. Bill played him straight up and won how many championships? Russell was as smart of a player as there has been in the league and used that as his advantage over better athletes even then, Russell was a good athlete himself, just not a guy that was built like a brick.

Take a guy like Paul Silas, not physically intimidating to look at but owned the boards and was a enforcer of his day as well, smallish even by the standards back then. Played on smarts and grit.

 

[IndyHawk]

I don't want to dismiss people's opinions too out of here, but a lot the criticisms here are "BACK IN MY DAY" old dude crap. Bill Russell would get rolled by a dude like Hakeem Olajuwon, who had a shot, better footwork, and more size. Athletes get BETTER every year. You can talk about all the "WELL, GUYS BOXED OUT IN THE '70s" stuff you want, but the truth is that most of these guys played ball on courts with people that played tougher than the dudes of the '70s. Coming up in the neighborhood, they got their share of elbows, checks, etc. Acting like they're not tough or they have no heart, as if you can make the highest level of basketball in the world without having heart or real mental toughness, is just not true.

And before anyone says it, I have seen lots of basketball from the '60s, '70s, and '80s. I still have a ton of VHS tapes that the NBA put out with old games, old clips of games, etc. I was all about NBA games on ESPN Classic. I've seen the famous Willis Reed game, Walton limping up and down the court in Portland, the Bird and Magic teams of the '80s, etc. I just haven't totally romanticized this stuff like some of you posting here.

I get what you say about the romanticizing stuff ,I could care less about Reed limping
out there myself..You say they get better every year but I can't agree because I haven't seen it..There are a couple today that could play in any era -Lebron and Durant but to be Superstars..I have doubts because of the rules such as no 3 point shots..Hard fouls,tight defenses and a big thing is being good at teamwork..I look at today and I just don't see it on both sides of the ball..Anyway I'm curious..Since you think they are so good today who do you put at every spot vs "the old guys who have no skills ect"..Name the best 5..

 

[SonicHawk]

I don't know why you don't think these better athletes of today couldn't deal with hard fouling?

 

[Subzero717]

I don't know why you don't think these better athletes of today couldn't deal with hard fouling?

Because the league basically looks like a European soccer match these days. Have you seen Bron get touched lately? Im not blaming it all on "todays" NBA. The star calls started way before now and IMO that was the begining of the downfall. It became very noticable during Jordans run. I dont recall it before but Im not that old either. The fact that K Love and Aldridge are the two best PF in the game and outside of D12 I cant name a true Center just tells you the state of the league. Im not saying better or worse really. Its dfferent and not for me. Watching 6'11" dudes make it rain from downtown isnt my thing.

 

[Diezel Dawg]

I don't know why you don't think these better athletes of today couldn't deal with hard fouling?

Because today's players are spoiled and look for every call to go for them. These kids today would literally cry at some of the fouls Jordan took back in the day of the Jordan Rules and no lay ups/dunks era

 

[Uncle Si]

I don't know why you don't think these better athletes of today couldn't deal with hard fouling?

For me, im sure all of them could "handle" it...

but at what impact to their game? LeBron and Kobe might operate at the same level, but many of the modern players would strugle to hit the numbers they do today, atleast at first. Can you really see Durant going for 40 straight 25+ scoring games in the late 80s? Westbrook driving against Dumars or Payton? they'd find points, but maybe not at the level they can today. the game today wants scoring, as it did in the early to mid-80s (remember those old Golden State and Nugget teams?)

None of this is really a rip on either era, just a reflection of how the game and athlete have changed. There are alot of well known names of the 80s (Charles Oakley? Xavier McDaniel?) who i dont think would have much impact on todays game.

 

[Throwdown]

Westbrook I think would be fine, that dude is strong as hell, he's a tank at the PG position.

 

[IndyHawk]

I don't know why you don't think these better athletes of today couldn't deal with hard fouling?

Because today's players are spoiled and look for every call to go for them. These kids today would literally cry at some of the fouls Jordan took back in the day of the Jordan Rules and no lay ups/dunks era

This is a great point..."The Jordan Rules" that was some of the most brutal fouls I've ever seen..If anyone thinks Jordan had it easy ,it wasn't up to this point ..It was after this he started bulking up so he could absorb and deliver if needed..As for the players of today taking hits..They could if they had to but as some one said,how much would it affect their game?You get rattled and cofidence gets lowered knowing whats coming...There is no free pass..Does that make sense?In the past you had enforcers like Oakley,Shelton,X man and Silas was one ect..Today as another said it's more eroupean style I guess..Whatever it is- it's easier and softer and with 3 pointers..No enforcers are needed(too slow) there is no role for them..As another said and I'm with them..I have no desire to see 6:11 dudes shooting threes..I'm naming my top 5 right now that I have doubt would dominate today as in past.. Wilt,Hakeem,Bill,Magic and MJ

 

[Smelly McUgly]

I don't want to dismiss people's opinions too out of here, but a lot the criticisms here are "BACK IN MY DAY" old dude crap. Bill Russell would get rolled by a dude like Hakeem Olajuwon, who had a shot, better footwork, and more size. Athletes get BETTER every year. You can talk about all the "WELL, GUYS BOXED OUT IN THE '70s" stuff you want, but the truth is that most of these guys played ball on courts with people that played tougher than the dudes of the '70s. Coming up in the neighborhood, they got their share of elbows, checks, etc. Acting like they're not tough or they have no heart, as if you can make the highest level of basketball in the world without having heart or real mental toughness, is just not true.

And before anyone says it, I have seen lots of basketball from the '60s, '70s, and '80s. I still have a ton of VHS tapes that the NBA put out with old games, old clips of games, etc. I was all about NBA games on ESPN Classic. I've seen the famous Willis Reed game, Walton limping up and down the court in Portland, the Bird and Magic teams of the '80s, etc. I just haven't totally romanticized this stuff like some of you posting here.

I get what you say about the romanticizing stuff ,I could care less about Reed limping
out there myself..You say they get better every year but I can't agree because I haven't seen it..There are a couple today that could play in any era -Lebron and Durant but to be Superstars..I have doubts because of the rules such as no 3 point shots..Hard fouls,tight defenses and a big thing is being good at teamwork..I look at today and I just don't see it on both sides of the ball..Anyway I'm curious..Since you think they are so good today who do you put at every spot vs "the old guys who have no skills ect"..Name the best 5..

Indy, I honestly could not do this because I don't watch the league. This is a question for Throw. I could probably put together a team of '90s All-Stars that smokes whoever people have from the '50s - 70s, though.

 

[Throwdown]

I mean if I was to go with 5 of this current crop of players in today's league?

C - Marc Gasol, pretty traditional big man with a mid range game to him
PF - Anthony Davis, this is where it gets tough for me, there's so many variations of 4's in this league, it's hard to find one that I'd take for a traditional team. But I got a good feeling about Anthony Davis out of New Orleans, honorable mention to Lamarcus Aldridge.
SF - LeBron James, I really don't think you can find another SF like him in ANY era.
SG - Kobe Bryant, a healthy Kobe in his prime? Dude was/is deadly, you didn't want none of him if you had to deal with the Lakers in the clutch.
PG - Chris Paul, a tough hard nosed defender who has the offensive awareness to make everyone better, a walking, talking double-double.

But I can see where Smelly is coming from, specially in the NBA & MLB, everyone thinks the era when they were kids was the best. I mean being 26, I have a major bias that favors the players of the 90's.

 

[chris98251]

Moses Malone, Wilt, Bill Russell, Elgin Baylor, Maurice Lucas, Bob McAdoo, Kareem, Oscar Robinson, Dave Bing, Dennis Johnson, Earl Monroe, Charles Barkley. There are so many others to swap in and out, thats just off the top of my head.

This team would shut down that team becasue they could not score in the paint and the defense outside was glue. Other the Robinson, he's a pure scorer.

Game played by the rules not the superstar biased game. Todays stars would lose composure fast, hand checking is legal again also.

 

[IndyHawk]

Yeah it's tough for me to rule out players from late 70's/80's and 90's..I stopped pretty much after 2000 in really keeping up but I was still a fan of playoffs ect..Throw is that a lineup thats going to beat half of Chris
lineup?No offense but I will take his or mine but when I listed my 5- I meant "all time" of course I had other guys I liked..Pistol Pete was a one of a kind till booze messsed him up..Spencer Haywood -one of my favorite Sonics..I Thomas -the best small guard who played much bigger than he was..David Thompson -an exciting player (ex Sonic) till coke and knee injuries slowed him..Benard King -A great player till he blew his knee out...I loved Bob McAdoo-a great Buffalo Brave..When I was a kid in the summer me and best friend would pretend we was these guys on certain shots..Good memories

 

[IndyHawk]

I don't want to dismiss people's opinions too out of here, but a lot the criticisms here are "BACK IN MY DAY" old dude crap. Bill Russell would get rolled by a dude like Hakeem Olajuwon, who had a shot, better footwork, and more size. Athletes get BETTER every year. You can talk about all the "WELL, GUYS BOXED OUT IN THE '70s" stuff you want, but the truth is that most of these guys played ball on courts with people that played tougher than the dudes of the '70s. Coming up in the neighborhood, they got their share of elbows, checks, etc. Acting like they're not tough or they have no heart, as if you can make the highest level of basketball in the world without having heart or real mental toughness, is just not true.

And before anyone says it, I have seen lots of basketball from the '60s, '70s, and '80s. I still have a ton of VHS tapes that the NBA put out with old games, old clips of games, etc. I was all about NBA games on ESPN Classic. I've seen the famous Willis Reed game, Walton limping up and down the court in Portland, the Bird and Magic teams of the '80s, etc. I just haven't totally romanticized this stuff like some of you posting here.

I get what you say about the romanticizing stuff ,I could care less about Reed limping
out there myself..You say they get better every year but I can't agree because I haven't seen it..There are a couple today that could play in any era -Lebron and Durant but to be Superstars..I have doubts because of the rules such as no 3 point shots..Hard fouls,tight defenses and a big thing is being good at teamwork..I look at today and I just don't see it on both sides of the ball..Anyway I'm curious..Since you think they are so good today who do you put at every spot vs "the old guys who have no skills ect"..Name the best 5..

Indy, I honestly could not do this because I don't watch the league. This is a question for Throw. I could probably put together a team of '90s All-Stars that smokes whoever people have from the '50s - 70s, though.

Go ahead I'd like to see it..

 

[Smelly McUgly]

PG: Payton, Stockton
SG: Jordan, Drexler, Bryant
SF: Pippen
PF: Rodman, Barkley, Malone
C: Olajuwon, O'Neal, Mutombo

Payton is one of the greatest defensive guards of all time, which overlooks his handles and shot. Stockton is a great facilitator who plays tough/dirty enough to match whoever you have at PG from the '70s.

Jordan can play the two or the three and is the GOAT. Pippen can play the one through the three. I can move those twos and threes around or play small if I want them to as well. IMO the greatest compliment I can give Pippen is that, giant chokejob aside, he had the Blazers within about ten minutes of going to an NBA Finals that they would have destroyed the Pacers in while playing the point. What a beast this dude was.

Defensively, my PF/C choices are nasty, plus they can all rebound. Rodman sort of shunned his shotmaking abilities and let them erode to become a mad rebounder, but Bill Russell, as great as he was for his day, isn't matching up to a team that throws Rodman and Barkley at him in rotation.

My big thing is who is standing up to the twos and threes on this team from the '60s and '70s? Maravich was a one-note player (though a hell of a shooter). Oscar Robertson was helped by inflated scoring in the '70s. George Gervin? I guess you could sneak Julius Erving in there or something.