Kam's tweet

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pittpnthrs

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The_Z_Man":39e5qt3e said:
Did you ever hear Ray Lewis bitching about his offense? No, when the Ravens offense didn't produce and they got criticized, Lewis would go after the press that was picking at them. They had some terrible playoff exits and some frustrating losses, but they didn't implode, and ended up hanging around long enough with that core of defensive players to grab another ring because their QB got a little bit hot one year.

Ray Lewis has never experienced anything as traumatizing as 'The Play' in his career though, so i'm not sure if he's a fair comparison. Even Ray would probably complain if he played hurt for an entire Super Bowl and his team was in position to win and then his coach threw it all away with one of the worst (if not THE) play calls in the history of sports.

That's all you need... work, work, work, stay positive, be great, and an opportunity will come.

The defense tried, but the coaching staff and offense guaranteed that opportunity would never come, hence the tweet.

Did Pete Carroll ever once throw one of his players under the bus? Sherm after all those stupid stunts, Earl after his little Cowboy pow-wow? Michael Bennett being caught in a blatant lie?

He allowed one of his staff to do that exact thing with no repercussions. Same thing.
 

IrishNW

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I really thought Kam was one of the good guys. He always seemed to have high character and although stood with his LOB brothers still seemed to support Wilson. I hope this was not what I think it was because I would really love to see Kam continue his career with us (if he can even play ball again).
 

SeaChat

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The way I interpreted it, was that he was simply asking, if statisticians monitored and compiled any stats, on how many points scored by NFL teams, were initiated as a result of their defense, i.e. interceptions, fumble recoveries, safeties, touch downs, etc...

I've noted that in the last couple of seasons, there has been a steady decline by our defense, who had traditionally and consistently, accounted for many of our points scored, and the majority of our wins. Another observation I've made over the past couple of seasons, was that our defense, was also less able to prevent our opponents from scoring points, especially when it mattered the most. The combination of these two factors are, in my humble opinion what has kept us out of Super Bowl contention the past couple of seasons.

We've all watched Seahawk games in past years, where our opponents managed to get a small lead over us in the first half, only to have our defense stop them dead in their tracks from scoring any more points, and then force turnovers, giving Russell Wilson, the magic man, opportunities to do what he does best, and that is giving us another one of his come from behind, miracle wins.

The past couple of seasons, our defense has not been able to do it's part, allowing the opponents to score more points than they ever have before, fewer turnovers and creating point deficits, that even the Magic Man couldn't overcome. It seemed that every time Russell would manage to get us back in the game, that our defense would fail to prevent our opponents from scoring again and allowing them back into the lead.

I know that Blair Walsh, didn't help our cause and cost us three or four games, that we surely would have won had he succeeded, , but even in those games, the scores should never have been so close, that we were left dependent upon his kick to decide the final outcome. We all knew that if the kick really mattered that Walsh would surely miss it. It's sad, if it didn't matter, he would nail it every time. He simply folded under pressure, and because of his performance II do value the kicker position much more than I ever did before.

I am really hopeful, that in the off-season, with all the changes that were made in our defensive lineup, that we can get our Boom back. I know that a lot of people try and define the Legion of Boom as being a cast of characters, but it is in fact, the finished product of a defensive philosophy and strategy, orchestrated by Pete Carroll, and implemented under his guidance by his defensive coordinators, at this time Ken Norton and company.

I believe, that is why Pete, went after Ken and his assistant defensive coach, during this off season. Ken was instrumental in the construction of Pete's Original Legion of Boom Defense, and if there was anyone could resuscitate it, Ken Norton is most certainly the right man for that job.

I am a big Kam Chancellor fan, and I didn't interpret anything in his tweet as being disrespectful to the Seahawks team or management, I believe he was pointing out the obvious, by highlighting the fact that when our Defense is playing like he knows it's capable of playing, that they are a major game outcome changer for us, and that our success in past years was as dependent if not more dependent upon the defense than it was and still is on the Magic Man and our offense.

It's a team sport and in order to be successful, you have to have all your parts working together. If Pete is successful in resuscitating the Legion of Boom, and at long last, successful in crafting an offense, that can protect Russell Wilson, and at the same time deliver both run and pass protection, as it appears is his intention at present, we could conceivably have reason to believe that we might very well find ourselves in the 2019 Super Bowl.

I'm so looking forward to a "Kiss The Baby" season where the Seattle Seahawks shut all the hyper critical talking heads out there, who are so quick to toss us under the bus, "The Legion of Boom is dead !, the Seahawks have no offense, their battling cap issues and lost all their key players and the list goes on". These are the same critics, in the media and in the forums who were screaming all the same "sky is falling" rhetoric, back when Pete and John first took over, and cleaned house, refueling with free agency and draft picks back then.


On a closing note, I don't and won't assume that Kam won't play again, this season, or any other. I take him at his word, that if the doctors will clear him to play that he will. I don't know if fans understand that if the doctors don't clear an athlete to play, they can't play. Kam has been adamant from the onset, that "if the doctors will clear him to play, that he will play, that he is not ready to retire yet, he still has a passion for the game and feels he still has a lot left to offer".

I can't say that I see the same fire and passion from Cliff Avril that I see from Kam. Cliff seems pretty much of the mind, that if the doctors tell him there is even the slightest possibility of a re-injury, that he is "going to put his family first" and play it safe by retiring. Every player that takes the field in an NFL game runs the risk of this same injury occuring to them. For that matter any of us that ever played football at any level have experienced neck related stingers, where we went numb for a few and worried that we had really messed something up, only to have it dissipate after while and we were back on the field for the next play.

As I read through this thread today I couldn't help but reflect on Marshawn Lynch, when he finally got so fed up with everyone misinterpreting just about everything he said, twisting his words around and using them to demonize him, and finally in response, simply refused to talk to the press anymore. It seems all to many people are all to quick, to look for, and find the worst in people, and if that is what your looking for, its easy to find. Look for the good in people and its just as easy to find too.

Go back and read Kam's tweet, this time looking for the good in the man and his words, and I think you'll discover it reads entirely different than the way a lot of folks interpreted it.

I guess only time will tell. Go Seahawks!
 

hawknation2018

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I wish people were more appreciative of what players like Kam, Sherman, Bennett, etc. accomplished for their team.

No need to trash them when they're gone or done.
 

AgentDib

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hawknation2018":hhbru98i said:
I wish people were more appreciative of what players like Kam, Sherman, Bennett, etc. accomplished for their team. No need to trash them when they're gone or done.
I respect the sentiment behind this and think fans are often overly critical of players. It's been just long enough since the Super Bowl win that the initial shine has worn off but not long enough for the rose colored glasses to come out. That being said, every player is different and some have been more team oriented than others.

Of the three you mentioned I have the best feelings towards Bennett. He signed a prove it deal here, proved it, then signed a team friendly extension despite his rhetoric at the time. And while he was injured a lot over the last couple of years he suited up and played a lot better than people around here immediately remember. When we did move on from him due to locker room stuff it was with a trade as other teams out there thought he could contribute up to or exceeding his salary.

I'm more neutral on Kam. I loved what he brought to the team but we made him the highest paid SS in return and then his holdout was the defining story of our entire 2015 season. Our defense didn't look good until week 7 or so and by that time we just had too much ground to make up even though we finished out 8-2. I have no problem with players looking after their own interests but I'm also not going to give them any accolades for it. It's a shame that his career appears to be ending here on a note where everybody would take a retirement announcement as great news. This tweet isn't the end of the world or anything, but it certainly isn't helping the team and you would think that could at least be a minor concern to him with a 9.5m cap hit and no sign that he'll be suiting up this year.
 

RolandDeschain

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Anybody that thinks that the defense lacks legitimate reason to be annoyed with our offense over the past few years doesn't understand football very well. It does not have much to do with the balance of income. Intelligent use of offensive resources was BY FAR the biggest impediment to offensive success.
 

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The_Z_Man":2iswn2mx said:
pittpnthrs":2iswn2mx said:
Ray Lewis has never experienced anything as traumatizing as 'The Play' in his career though, so i'm not sure if he's a fair comparison.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nURz04Y9s8

And how did Ray Lewis respond to that?

Get pissed off at the offensive coaches for a bad game plan, for STUPID and banal play calls at the end of that game? Go off on the kicker for missing a chip shot?

Nope...

He got the team together and said this to them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp0ABHaFwMY


If the Seahawks had just one of those big D players step up and do something like that, been the leaders they were supposed to be... then they would have been just fine.

Z Man for the Win, football is a team sport and it takes everyone moving in to same direction to win.
 

strohmin

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907Hawk":39w23fl7 said:
The_Z_Man":39w23fl7 said:
pittpnthrs":39w23fl7 said:
Ray Lewis has never experienced anything as traumatizing as 'The Play' in his career though, so i'm not sure if he's a fair comparison.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nURz04Y9s8

And how did Ray Lewis respond to that?

Get pissed off at the offensive coaches for a bad game plan, for STUPID and banal play calls at the end of that game? Go off on the kicker for missing a chip shot?

Nope...

He got the team together and said this to them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp0ABHaFwMY


If the Seahawks had just one of those big D players step up and do something like that, been the leaders they were supposed to be... then they would have been just fine.

Z Man for the Win, football is a team sport and it takes everyone moving in to same direction to win.

You still can't compare them because one was a miss by a kicker which happens more often than a really stupid decision by the coaching staff. That also wasn't at the end of a Superbowl and it would have only ended up in a tie. Our defense out performed that Ravens team because our defense because our offense has been more pathetic the last 4 years than even the Trent Dilfer offense. Being a blind homer makes it hard to truly appreciate how great of a defense we had even for how much money was invested in them.
 

SeaChat

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strohmin":3tumobig said:
907Hawk":3tumobig said:
The_Z_Man":3tumobig said:
pittpnthrs":3tumobig said:
Ray Lewis has never experienced anything as traumatizing as 'The Play' in his career though, so i'm not sure if he's a fair comparison.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nURz04Y9s8

And how did Ray Lewis respond to that?

Get pissed off at the offensive coaches for a bad game plan, for STUPID and banal play calls at the end of that game? Go off on the kicker for missing a chip shot?

Nope...

He got the team together and said this to them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp0ABHaFwMY


If the Seahawks had just one of those big D players step up and do something like that, been the leaders they were supposed to be... then they would have been just fine.

Z Man for the Win, football is a team sport and it takes everyone moving in to same direction to win.

You still can't compare them because one was a miss by a kicker which happens more often than a really stupid decision by the coaching staff. That also wasn't at the end of a Superbowl and it would have only ended up in a tie. Our defense out performed that Ravens team because our defense because our offense has been more pathetic the last 4 years than even the Trent Dilfer offense. Being a blind homer makes it hard to truly appreciate how great of a defense we had even for how much money was invested in them.


Go back and look at the points that our offense put up the past two seasons in particular, because that is the period of time when I asserted that our defense was slipping on their job, and allowing our opponents to score to many points for our offense to overcome, way more often than in previous seasons.

Russell and his offense were putting numbers on the score boards that in past seasons were enough to provide us with wins, but when your defense isn’t able to hold ground and deny our opponents from getting into field goal range, converting on 3rd downs, and scoring additional touchdowns, than was the case 3 and 4 seasons ago, Russell’s points scored in almost every game, respectable scores, simply were not enough to overcome the failures of our defense to provide us the same level of play that they had been.

I’m not kicking players around, but Sherm, Bennett, Kam, Avril, Earl, and even Richardson’s knee injury hampered their ability to “Lower the Boom”, and contributed a lot more to our losses than our Offense, as poor as it performed. They did put up about the same final scores as they always have, mostly due to Russell’s never say die efforts and mantaility.

These are my observations, and I realize that not everyone will agree. Give us back our “Legion of Boom” defense, and the return of a meaningful run game, and I see us at the 2019 Super Bowl.

Go Seahawks
 

SoulfishHawk

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Win as a team lose as a team. The D has contributed to losing, just like the offense has. They are not above criticism, even if they think they are.
 

adeltaY

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SoulfishHawk":l3v1bv28 said:
Win as a team lose as a team. The D has contributed to losing, just like the offense has. They are not above criticism, even if they think they are.

Best summary of what it's been like since '49. Defense was paid higher and performed better, but had failures here and there. The offense overall was paid much less and had more consistent failures. The offensive line was consistently garbage.
 

pittpnthrs

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The_Z_Man":2ddhkhoj said:
pittpnthrs":2ddhkhoj said:
Ray Lewis has never experienced anything as traumatizing as 'The Play' in his career though, so i'm not sure if he's a fair comparison.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nURz04Y9s8

And how did Ray Lewis respond to that?

Get pissed off at the offensive coaches for a bad game plan, for STUPID and banal play calls at the end of that game? Go off on the kicker for missing a chip shot?

Nope...

He got the team together and said this to them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp0ABHaFwMY


If the Seahawks had just one of those big D players step up and do something like that, been the leaders they were supposed to be... then they would have been just fine.

Your comparing a missed FG (not even a Super Bowl mind you), to 'The Play'? That's a horrible example.
 

chris98251

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SoulfishHawk":78zepbuq said:
Win as a team lose as a team. The D has contributed to losing, just like the offense has. They are not above criticism, even if they think they are.


So the offense if they played for 3 quarters and the defense allowed points every possession we would win?
 

scutterhawk

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MD5eahawks":ae0xkkwn said:
The_Z_Man":ae0xkkwn said:
Well, it's obvious to me why this team failed.

Defense had all the money -- all the defensive players got paid. Offensive players that weren't going to sign on a "bargain deal" --- Golden Tate, Sweeny, Okung, et. got released...

That told me "we are putting this on the defense"

And what does the defense do after they got all the money and the star acclaim?

Show leadership?

Move on from things that happened in the past, as ALL GOOD LEADERS DO.

Nope.... they endlessly bitched, sat there and stewed and dwelled on one play call in the past, and blew this team apart and ensured themselves a ticket out of town.

Legion of Boom may have been great players, but they FAILED, utterly failed as championship style leaders.

Did you ever hear Ray Lewis bitching about his offense? No, when the Ravens offense didn't produce and they got criticized, Lewis would go after the press that was picking at them. They had some terrible playoff exits and some frustrating losses, but they didn't implode, and ended up hanging around long enough with that core of defensive players to grab another ring because their QB got a little bit hot one year.

That's all you need... work, work, work, stay positive, be great, and an opportunity will come.

Did Pete Carroll ever once throw one of his players under the bus? Sherm after all those stupid stunts, Earl after his little Cowboy pow-wow? Michael Bennett being caught in a blatant lie?

Nope, he actually defended them!

He always had their backs.

Did they show him the same consideration in return?

Hell no.

That tells me EVERYTHING about what their characters are. I really, really, loved that defense but now it's tainted for me, because it's obvious those players were a bunch of spoiled little babies, and I will always think of them that way.

LOB, great players, spoiled babies and finger pointers.
While I agree with you, I’d like to point out that Ray Lewis was the only player on that team that was around for that ‘other’ ring. If I’m not mistaken, he was the only person in the entire organization that was around. Even the owner was different. But you are correct in saying he never complained about the offense.
That's because he was all about being a TEAM PLAYER.
 

scutterhawk

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RolandDeschain":11hawjxi said:
Anybody that thinks that the defense lacks legitimate reason to be annoyed with our offense over the past few years doesn't understand football very well. It does not have much to do with the balance of income. Intelligent use of offensive resources was BY FAR the biggest impediment to offensive success.
Fact is, when the Seahawks won 49, they had one of the highest paid Offenses in the League, after 50, the majority of the payola went to the Defense, and the lowballed Offense has been on a steady decline ever since....That's why Cable & Bevell were sent down the road kicking horse turds. LOL
 

TwistedHusky

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Scutterhawk, your post is not a fact. It is an assumption.

Here are the facts

Last year, in the 1st and 2nd quarters the Seahawks were near the bottom of the league in scoring TDs. Interestingly, they were one of the worst teams in the league in the 2nd quarter and in the 1st at least the bottom quarter. We averaged a little over a TD PER HALF last year. (Behind only Denver, Cleveland and Miami....all teams without effective QBs but we supposedly had one.)

Here is another fact, in the 3rd and 4th quarters the Seahawks were near the top. In fact, the Seahawks were the #1 team in the league at 2nd half scoring last year.

Which leads to the reasonable conclusion that there was no systemic reason the Hawks could not score in the 1st half. We were not 'starving' the offense, we were fasting. So the reason we had problems scoring last year in the 1st half was because we never bothered trying in a focused way. Which pisses me off.

As Roland pointed out and the stats agree with, it was not a lack of offensive resources but a lack of intelligent use of them for the full half (this is doubly frustrating because we all know the team never bothered turning on the scoring until midway through the 3rd....).

It was a lack of urgency combined with a belief (from the highest level down) that the 1st half scoring was not important. Shocking, we rarely bothered with it.

And we didn't lose the offensive players because we paid the defensive players. We lost the offensive players because the FO made stupid decisions like Harvin and Graham that took money we could have used to pay our players with. Specifically Tate, would was a bargain at what he signed with Detroit for considering how badly it hurt the offense in losing him.
 

RCATES

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The_Z_Man":1qvng7ys said:
Well, it's obvious to me why this team failed.

Defense had all the money -- all the defensive players got paid. Offensive players that weren't going to sign on a "bargain deal" --- Golden Tate, Sweeny, Okung, et. got released...

That told me "we are putting this on the defense"

And what does the defense do after they got all the money and the star acclaim?

Show leadership?

Move on from things that happened in the past, as ALL GOOD LEADERS DO.

Nope.... they endlessly bitched, sat there and stewed and dwelled on one play call in the past, and blew this team apart and ensured themselves a ticket out of town.

Legion of Boom may have been great players, but they FAILED, utterly failed as championship style leaders.

Did you ever hear Ray Lewis bitching about his offense? No, when the Ravens offense didn't produce and they got criticized, Lewis would go after the press that was picking at them. They had some terrible playoff exits and some frustrating losses, but they didn't implode, and ended up hanging around long enough with that core of defensive players to grab another ring because their QB got a little bit hot one year.

That's all you need... work, work, work, stay positive, be great, and an opportunity will come.

Did Pete Carroll ever once throw one of his players under the bus? Sherm after all those stupid stunts, Earl after his little Cowboy pow-wow? Michael Bennett being caught in a blatant lie?

Nope, he actually defended them!

He always had their backs.

Did they show him the same consideration in return?

Hell no.

That tells me EVERYTHING about what their characters are. I really, really, loved that defense but now it's tainted for me, because it's obvious those players were a bunch of spoiled little babies, and I will always think of them that way.

LOB, great players, spoiled babies and finger pointers.

If you're blaming the defense for this downfall you need to watch more football. Seahawks offense has been god awful doing little to nothing until the 4th quarter. Basically leaving the Defense on the field the whole game. Time of possession was lopsided as all hell.
 

TwistedHusky

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We had a top ten defense, but they were forced to defense 190 drives. Only AZ (EDIT: And Jacksonville) were worse, I believe. (But Jacksonville tended to defend with a lead, which means it was far easier for them)

The only thing they were average in at all was, ironically, generating turnovers. And they did give up a fair amount of FGS (you could argue that the offense put them in position to protect short fields though).

The areas they were weak in makes sense because of the sheer # of drives they have to stop. They also, on average, were defending without a lead. So they essentially had to keep the game close.

People that blame the defense either don't know football or have some weird obsession with wanting to give the offense the benefit of the doubt even though it rarely earned it.
 

SoulfishHawk

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The D had a part in last season, probably more so because of the lack of time of possession by the offense. But certainly the Offense was much more of a problem. And the play calling :pukeface:
 
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