Geno and the Super Bowl

[pittpnthrs]

"BUT DILFER DID IT!" is about one of the worst arguments that one can make.

The first thing we must mention is that was back in the year 2000. The NFL was a VERY different place. The defense could maul receivers, the defense could wail on people with reckless abandon, so on and so forth. The game was much different, it was much harder to pass in that landscape.

If you need any sort of proof, just go look at the top passers from 2000 and 2020, the last season with only 16 games.

In 2000 there were only three players that broke 4k yards. There was only one passer that broke 65 percent passing, 3 guys that had more than 30 TDs, and the lowest INT total for a QB that started all 16 games was 10.

In 2020 by contrast we have 12 4,000 yard passers, over 10 passers that had 30+ touchdowns, the MVP having 48 to his name. Three passers had over 40 or more touchdowns, three QB's had over 70 percent completion, by contrast only one QB had over 65 percent completion in 2000.

I could keep on going. It's a disingenuous argument to compare the two situations.

Exactly.

I dont think Geno is capable of winning a Super Bowl (heck, win a playoff game first). He's a serviceable system QB that plays well when the system is clicking. Its when he is asked to do more than that is when it starts to break down. The people stating he is a Cousins, Alex Smith type QB are 100% correct. Geno is nothing more than a stop gap QB until other roster holes are filled. He's good enough for that, but not much more.

 

[Lagartixa]

Why is it that everyone thinks we can’t win a Super Bowl with Geno. He played very well last year. With all the additional offensive weapons he will have even less pressure to "do it all”. He is more than capable. People think you need a Brady or Mahomes in order to win. That is just BS. We won when Russ was still budding and not “elite”. Plenty of others have been won without an elite QB. Geno may be elite (time will tell) but many have already written his narrative for him. Lame. I am not saying he is the second coming of Brady or anything like that but he has proven he can play at a high level. Let’s root for him and at least not write him off. Jeez. Some fan base we are.

People forget that during Brady's first three Super Bowls, he was considered a "game manager" and the debate was about Peyton Manning's otherworldly transformation of the quarterback position vs. Brady's "game management" and titles. It wasn't until Brady was over 30 that he started having Peyton Manning-level seasons (and then sustained that for over a decade). When Brady was in his 20s, he was a "game manager" and won three Super Bowls.

So responding the the part of the thread-starting post I emphasized with boldface text, the Patriots in the first half of the aughts technically had Brady, but he wasn't the great QB he became later in his career, so it would be fair to say he wasn't "a Brady or Mahomes" in the sense of @Year of The Hawk's comment.

 

[Lagartixa]

Exactly.

I dont think Geno is capable of winning a Super Bowl (heck, win a playoff game first). He's a serviceable system QB that plays well when the system is clicking. Its when he is asked to do more than that is when it starts to break down. The people stating he is a Cousins, Alex Smith type QB are 100% correct. Geno is nothing more than a stop gap QB until other roster holes are filled. He's good enough for that, but not much more.

The Seahawks won a Super Bowl with just such a QB. Of course, they also lost one because that QB threw an interception on the biggest play of his career, but this thread isn't about extreme chokery.

 

[CouchLogic]

Since Trent Dilfer is off the table.

How about these world beating elite QBs...Brad Johnson, Eli Manning, Nick Foles, Matt Stafford, Jake Delhomme, Rex Grossman, Colin Kaepernick, Cam Newton, Matt Ryan, Jared Goff, Jimmy Garappolo. All took their teams ro the championship, none of which I would take over Geno Smith.

 

[Mick063]

Kansas City seems to be doing alright.

For you, playoffs are not enough. It is championship now or bust. OK. Let's go with that for a moment.

So.......Cincinatti, Buffalo, Jacksonville, LAC, Baltimore, Dallas, Philadelphia are flat out sucking right now. Every team besides Kansas City sucks. No championship...they suck. Playoffs are not good enough. Talent ascension is not good enough. Exceeding expectations are not good enough. Your representative sample (one team) for wannabe quarterback deity unicorns is far from representative. For every Kansas City, there are a half dozen other playoff teams with franchise, salary cap devouring quarterbacks that SUCK (by your "championship now or else the team sucks" definition). It makes for a very, very fragile logical argument. I'll just go ahead and say it. Your argument is horribly, embarrassingly weak because it is not convincing. Not in the slightest. It is not representative of reality. Unicorn believers never did make much sense to me. You will never, ever be happy until Seattle captures that unicorn that can't just be a unicorn but has to deliver multiple championships and be in the GOAT conversation as well. Do you really want to spend the entirety of your life being a miserable fan because your fandom is wholly dependent upon acquiring a generational talent unicorn? Do you really want to come here with incessant complaining, year after year, feeling victimized because your unicorn hasn't arrived yet? I have a much easier solution for you. Switch to Kansas City. Problem solved. The palpable entitlement is beyond the pale.

Geno is more than capable of delivering his fair share of the championship load. And after he delivers it, you will still be unhappy. Because your message board wish list remains unfulfilled.

 

[WarHawks]

Do you really want to spend the entirety of your life being a miserable fan because your fandom is wholly dependent upon acquiring a generational unicorn?

Not miserable, just realistic. Geno's play in the 2nd half of last season was not good enough to win an owl. It is what it is. Can he be better than that? Sure. Will he be? Debatable. That's why so many were hoping to get a qbotf. It's much easier to build a sb winning team with a qb on a rookie contract. But that's a moot point now, as that ship has sailed. We won't be picking at the top of the draft again for the forseeable future. So, let's all take a deep breath, hope that Geno surpasses expectations, and if not, see what Lock offers, or we'll go unicorn hunting and try to trade up in a year or two into the top ten for a rookie like KC did with Mahomes at 10.

 

[Ozzy]

I've been more critical of Geno than most on here but I do think with the right supporting cast he could win one. His second half last year scares me but he has weapons at every level, another year in the system as the guy and really not a ton of playing experience so its also possible he surprises me and looks more like first half Geno. But anyway, its definitely in the acceptable range of outcomes for him to win one.

 

[hoxrox]

People that keep saying "but the defense" are missing some key points. Just having a good defense doesn't guarantee you a SB or even a playoff win. You need a guy that'll make those big time plays in crunch time. I don't think Geno is that guy that can make that stuff happen.

Not being down by 2-3 scores greatly impacts what an offense can do. If teams know you have pass to catch up, the offense is much easier to defend.

Add that ALL RBs + Lockett + Dissley were injured late in the season, it limited what the offense could do down the stretch. But Geno's league high completion % is no fluke. It is repeatable, especially now with the weapons he has on offense.

If the offense can be top 5 (which is possible). And the Defense top 10 (perhaps more unlikely), then this team can definitely be in contention.

 

[pittpnthrs]

The Seahawks won a Super Bowl with just such a QB. Of course, they also lost one because that QB threw an interception on the biggest play of his career, but this thread isn't about extreme chokery.

The fact that you bundle Wilson and Smith into the same category is telling of you. Also, Wilson should never have been put into that position of throwing that interception if it hadent been for the worst play call of all time. That was a choke on Carroll for allowing that play to even happen.

 

[hoxrox]

The fact that you bundle Wilson and Smith into the same category is telling of you. Also, Wilson should never have been put into that position of throwing that interception if it hadent been for the worst play call of all time. That was a choke on Carroll for allowing that play to even happen.

Bad call or not, you have to still admit, the execution was horrible.

 

[pittpnthrs]

For you, playoffs are not enough. It is championship now or bust. OK. Let's go with that for a moment.

So.......Cincinatti, Buffalo, Jacksonville, LAC, Baltimore, Dallas, Philadelphia are flat out sucking right now. Every team besides Kansas City sucks. No championship...they suck. Playoffs are not good enough. Talent ascension is not good enough. Exceeding expectations are not good enough. Your representative sample (one team) for wannabe quarterback deity unicorns is far from representative. For every Kansas City, there are a half dozen other playoff teams with franchise, salary cap devouring quarterbacks that SUCK (by your "championship now or else the team sucks" definition). It makes for a very, very fragile logical argument. I'll just go ahead and say it. Your argument is horribly, embarrassingly weak because it is not convincing. Not in the slightest. It is not representative of reality. Unicorn believers never did make much sense to me. You will never, ever be happy until Seattle captures that unicorn that can't just be a unicorn but has to deliver multiple championships and be in the GOAT conversation as well. Do you really want to spend the entirety of your life being a miserable fan because your fandom is wholly dependent upon acquiring a generational talent unicorn? Do you really want to come here with incessant complaining, year after year, feeling victimized because your unicorn hasn't arrived yet? I have a much easier solution for you. Switch to Kansas City. Problem solved. The palpable entitlement is beyond the pale.

Geno is more than capable of delivering his fair share of the championship load. And after he delivers it, you will still be unhappy. Because your message board wish list remains unfulfilled.

Its not championship or bust for me. Its more so progress in which there has been none for the past 8 years. Its the same story over and over again. Make the playoffs and get bounced early, never getting past the second round. The teams you mentioned and their franchise QB's slip up from time to time and lose early too, but they progress in the post season for the most part. Seattle doesnt. See the difference?

Geno Smith will never be a championship QB. He's just not good enough. If he ever does win something of note, we'll revisit this thread.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Bad call or not, you have to still admit, the execution was horrible.

Hard to execute a play when the other team knows what it is plus the addition of the worst personnel possible for it to work.

 

[hoxrox]

Hard to execute a play when the other team knows what it is plus the addition of the worst personnel possible for it to work.

Or you throw it right on the numbers, and not high and behind the receiver, and there's a better chance it's not picked off.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Why is it that everyone thinks we can’t win a Super Bowl with Geno.

Soulfish is that you?

Many people think we can win a SB with Geno, as long as we can get back to a nasty top 5 defense and run game. Me included.

Geno's capable of being an above average QB that can make enough plays during the course of the season and playoffs to win. But he can't carry a team, but only a couple QB's can. So that's not the reason we can't get to a SB.

Continuing to roll out an average to below average defense and inconsistent run game? Yep, that's most definitely a reason we won't get back to a SB. Not Geno.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

The only championship that this franchise has ever won had nothing to do with the quarterback position and you, my friend, have made the mistake of depicting the loud vocal minority of this board as "everyone". Insert a quarterback of Geno's competency onto that squad and the outcome would have been the same. In fact, I would go as far as to say that Geno, right now, is more competent than "year 2" Wilson. Don't forget that Geno set two franchise records last year.

There are multiple paths to a championship and no exclusive path to a championship. Some include a generational quarterback, and some don't.

Nothing to do with the QB? They don't make EITHER SB w/out him. Come on.

 

[Donn2390]

The fact that you bundle Wilson and Smith into the same category is telling of you. Also, Wilson should never have been put into that position of throwing that interception if it hadent been for the worst play call of all time. That was a choke on Carroll for allowing that play to even happen.

..and yet, there are many who claim the midget called the play at the LOS to be a hero.. He's kinda like something he would do...
We'll find out when they write their memoirs in 20-30 years...

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Soulfish is that you?

Many people think we can win a SB with Geno, as long as we can get back to a nasty top 5 defense and run game. Me included.

Geno's capable of being an above average QB that can make enough plays during the course of the season and playoffs to win. But he can't carry a team, but only a couple QB's can. So that's not the reason we can't get to a SB.

Continuing to roll out an average to below average defense and inconsistent run game? Yep, that's most definitely a reason we won't get back to a SB. Not Geno.

So I'm not allowed to have an opinion? Got it. I hope to be wrong about the guy. I literally said they could win a playoff game or two. I'll proudly make up a big plate of crow if he takes us to a SB. Couldn't care less WHO gets us there, just get us there. Thanks for thinking of me Largent. I get it aleady, Geno Smith walks on water.

Better? I'll say it YET AGAIN: I'm glad he's our QB this season.

 

[Hawk4life]

I understand some hesitancy about Geno but there have been many people echoing the sentiment that he is unable to win it all. I am surprised that we don’t have more people screaming about not drafting a QB if they really feel that way. Why waste the time on Geno if they really feel he can’t get them to the dance? I am excited about his up coming season and yes I do feel he can win it all but he will not have to do it alone. I understand some skepticism but to the level I have seen it is a bit weird.

PC doesn't place much importance on the position.

So basically if PC can recreate the LOB and Marshawn, we still need a reduced role QB that can take care of the ball. Which isn't as hard to find as landing an elite QB to carry the team. But easier said than done. A lot of things came together just right for PC and us and the nagging question is just how much of it was luck?

I don't think we have a realistic chance at getting to the dance this year because even in a reduced role Geno just isn't good enough, 8 fumbles with 4 lost last year is the issue.

I'm not real happy with not taking a QB in the draft but don't know enough about Hooker or Levis to say they take care of the ball. It gives us another year to develop and with Geno we will be good enough to hopefully win more than we lose and winning is a good thing for any team.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

So I'm not allowed to have an opinion? Got it. I hope to be wrong about the guy. I literally said they could win a playoff game or two. I'll proudly make up a big plate of crow if he takes us to a SB. Couldn't care less WHO gets us there, just get us there. Thanks for thinking of me Largent. I get it aleady, Geno Smith walks on water.

Better? I'll say it YET AGAIN: I'm glad he's our QB this season.

Just reminded me of your over exaggerating style of using words like "everyone, everything, no one, etc" to make your points.

You should be flattered, it's catching on!

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Fair enough. You do the same, but that's ok. It's just a message board.