Disconcerting to say the least

[Narniaman]

I agree most have better "perceivable" weapons, but I'm not sure that those top guys don't make those lines, RB, and WRs look better. Deion Branch is a great example of that.. Was a SB MVP for Brady and a slouch for us Seahawks. I don't actually think Randell Cobb and Jordy Nelson are all that great. I think they are above average WRs, but I think Rodgers makes them look like All pros. The QB always enhances or downgrades the weapons. I don't think Russell has worse weapons then Luck, Rodgers, Brees or Brady

Amazing the things that you can find out from this forum. What I just found out is that Pete and John are going to be legendary in NFL history for their brilliance in drafting players and signing undrafted players.

Consider the top five receivers (wide receivers and tight ends) in 2014 for Russell Wilson, Andrew Luck, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, and Tom Brady -- and their relative draft positions. To try to assess their perceived worth at draft time, I'll add up the rounds they were drafted in -- and consider that undrafted free agents were "drafted" in the eighth round. The lower the total score, the more the team invested in receivers. The lowest possible score -- indicating the highest rank -- would be 5 -- five receivers taken in the first round. The highest possible score -- indicating the lowest rank -- would be 40 -- five receivers who were undrafted free agents.

First, for Russell Wilson:

Doug Baldwin: Undrafted Free Agent
Jermaine Kearse: Undrafted Free Agent
Luke Willson: 5th round
Paul Richardson: 2nd round
Ricardo Lockette: Undrafted Free Agent

Draft value: 8 + 8 + 5 + 2 + 8 == 31

Second, for Andrew Luck:

T.Y. Hilton: 3rd round
Reggie Wayne: 1st round
Coby Fleener: 2nd round
Hakeem Nicks: 1st round
Donte Moncrief: 3rd round

Draft value: 10

Third -- here's Aaron Rodgers top five receivers.

Jordy Nelson: 2nd round
Randall Cobb: 2nd round
Davante Adams: 2nd round
Andrew Quarless: 5th round
Richard Rogers: 3rd round

Draft value: 14

Fourth -- the New Orleans Saints and Drew Brees:

Jimmy Graham: 3rd round
Kenny Stills: 5th round
Marques Colston: 7th round
Brandon Cooks: 1st round
Travaris Cadet: Undrafted Free Agent

Draft value: 24

Fifth -- Tom Brady:

Julian Edelman -- 7th round
Rob Gronkowski -- 2nd round
Brandon LaFell -- 3rd round
Danny Amendola -- Undrafted Free Agent
Timothy Wright -- Undrafted Free Agent

Draft value: 28

Although not cited with the other four, I thought it would be interesting to check on the "weapons" that Peyton Manning has at Denver:

Demaryius Thomas: 1st round draft pick
Emmanuel Sanders: 3rd round draft pick
Wes Welker: undrafted free agent
Julius Thomas: 4th round draft pick
Jacob Tamme: 4th round draft pick

Draft value: 20

I don't have the patience to do this for all 32 NFL teams. . . but I'm wondering if there is any team in the NFL that has invested less in their receiver corps than the Seahawks?

Since Russell's "receiving weapons" are ever bit as good as the receiving talented targeted by Luck, Brady, Brees, Rogers, and Manning. . . and since Pete and John were able to assess this talent by picking mainly from undrafted free agents. . .they must be regarded as talent evaluator geniuses.

It's just too bad for these elite receivers that they are handicapped by being targeted by a quarterback with obviously inferior passing potential. . .

 

[Anthony!]

Yes, it's pre-season. I just wish Russell could aim better. His passing accuracy doesn't seem that great for a 4th year player.

I do not totally disagree with you but again I thkn it is just trying different things. I mean Brady just had a game we he completed 53% of his passes, Luck just had 56%, Rodgers had a 57%. They all missed some they normally make, Its preseason nothing to worry about yet

And the beat goes on.

I say we play our O starters in the 4th preseason game until they score a TD. If they don't? Fire them all and make some cap room for Kam. We can run a bunch of second and third stringers on O who can average 3 field goals a game and with this D we'll still get to the SB.

Yeah ahh no.

 

[Anthony!]

I agree most have better "perceivable" weapons, but I'm not sure that those top guys don't make those lines, RB, and WRs look better. Deion Branch is a great example of that.. Was a SB MVP for Brady and a slouch for us Seahawks. I don't actually think Randell Cobb and Jordy Nelson are all that great. I think they are above average WRs, but I think Rodgers makes them look like All pros. The QB always enhances or downgrades the weapons. I don't think Russell has worse weapons then Luck, Rodgers, Brees or Brady

Amazing the things that you can find out from this forum. What I just found out is that Pete and John are going to be legendary in NFL history for their brilliance in drafting players and signing undrafted players.

Consider the top five receivers (wide receivers and tight ends) in 2014 for Russell Wilson, Andrew Luck, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, and Tom Brady -- and their relative draft positions. To try to assess their perceived worth at draft time, I'll add up the rounds they were drafted in -- and consider that undrafted free agents were "drafted" in the eighth round. The lower the total score, the more the team invested in receivers. The lowest possible score -- indicating the highest rank -- would be 5 -- five receivers taken in the first round. The highest possible score -- indicating the lowest rank -- would be 40 -- five receivers who were undrafted free agents.

First, for Russell Wilson:

Doug Baldwin: Undrafted Free Agent
Jermaine Kearse: Undrafted Free Agent
Luke Willson: 5th round
Paul Richardson: 2nd round
Ricardo Lockette: Undrafted Free Agent

Draft value: 8 + 8 + 5 + 2 + 8 == 31

Second, for Andrew Luck:

T.Y. Hilton: 3rd round
Reggie Wayne: 1st round
Coby Fleener: 2nd round
Hakeem Nicks: 1st round
Donte Moncrief: 3rd round

Draft value: 10

Third -- here's Aaron Rodgers top five receivers.

Jordy Nelson: 2nd round
Randall Cobb: 2nd round
Davante Adams: 2nd round
Andrew Quarless: 5th round
Richard Rogers: 3rd round

Draft value: 14

Fourth -- the New Orleans Saints and Drew Brees:

Jimmy Graham: 3rd round
Kenny Stills: 5th round
Marques Colston: 7th round
Brandon Cooks: 1st round
Travaris Cadet: Undrafted Free Agent

Draft value: 24

Fifth -- Tom Brady:

Julian Edelman -- 7th round
Rob Gronkowski -- 2nd round
Brandon LaFell -- 3rd round
Danny Amendola -- Undrafted Free Agent
Timothy Wright -- Undrafted Free Agent

Draft value: 28

Although not cited with the other four, I thought it would be interesting to check on the "weapons" that Peyton Manning has at Denver:

Demaryius Thomas: 1st round draft pick
Emmanuel Sanders: 3rd round draft pick
Wes Welker: undrafted free agent
Julius Thomas: 4th round draft pick
Jacob Tamme: 4th round draft pick

Draft value: 20

I don't have the patience to do this for all 32 NFL teams. . . but I'm wondering if there is any team in the NFL that has invested less in their receiver corps than the Seahawks?

Since Russell's "receiving weapons" are ever bit as good as the receiving talented targeted by Luck, Brady, Brees, Rogers, and Manning. . . and since Pete and John were able to assess this talent by picking mainly from undrafted free agents. . .they must be regarded as talent evaluator geniuses.

It's just too bad for these elite receivers that they are handicapped by being targeted by a quarterback with obviously inferior passing potential. . .

LOL you can also add in how those same Wrs that Rodgers throws to made Matt Flynn look like the 2nd coming and now Matt Flynn is nothing.

 

[ctrcat]

I agree most have better "perceivable" weapons, but I'm not sure that those top guys don't make those lines, RB, and WRs look better. Deion Branch is a great example of that.. Was a SB MVP for Brady and a slouch for us Seahawks. I don't actually think Randell Cobb and Jordy Nelson are all that great. I think they are above average WRs, but I think Rodgers makes them look like All pros. The QB always enhances or downgrades the weapons. I don't think Russell has worse weapons then Luck, Rodgers, Brees or Brady

Amazing the things that you can find out from this forum. What I just found out is that Pete and John are going to be legendary in NFL history for their brilliance in drafting players and signing undrafted players.

Consider the top five receivers (wide receivers and tight ends) in 2014 for Russell Wilson, Andrew Luck, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, and Tom Brady -- and their relative draft positions. To try to assess their perceived worth at draft time, I'll add up the rounds they were drafted in -- and consider that undrafted free agents were "drafted" in the eighth round. The lower the total score, the more the team invested in receivers. The lowest possible score -- indicating the highest rank -- would be 5 -- five receivers taken in the first round. The highest possible score -- indicating the lowest rank -- would be 40 -- five receivers who were undrafted free agents.

First, for Russell Wilson:

Doug Baldwin: Undrafted Free Agent
Jermaine Kearse: Undrafted Free Agent
Luke Willson: 5th round
Paul Richardson: 2nd round
Ricardo Lockette: Undrafted Free Agent

Draft value: 8 + 8 + 5 + 2 + 8 == 31

Second, for Andrew Luck:

T.Y. Hilton: 3rd round
Reggie Wayne: 1st round
Coby Fleener: 2nd round
Hakeem Nicks: 1st round
Donte Moncrief: 3rd round

Draft value: 10

Third -- here's Aaron Rodgers top five receivers.

Jordy Nelson: 2nd round
Randall Cobb: 2nd round
Davante Adams: 2nd round
Andrew Quarless: 5th round
Richard Rogers: 3rd round

Draft value: 14

Fourth -- the New Orleans Saints and Drew Brees:

Jimmy Graham: 3rd round
Kenny Stills: 5th round
Marques Colston: 7th round
Brandon Cooks: 1st round
Travaris Cadet: Undrafted Free Agent

Draft value: 24

Fifth -- Tom Brady:

Julian Edelman -- 7th round
Rob Gronkowski -- 2nd round
Brandon LaFell -- 3rd round
Danny Amendola -- Undrafted Free Agent
Timothy Wright -- Undrafted Free Agent

Draft value: 28

Although not cited with the other four, I thought it would be interesting to check on the "weapons" that Peyton Manning has at Denver:

Demaryius Thomas: 1st round draft pick
Emmanuel Sanders: 3rd round draft pick
Wes Welker: undrafted free agent
Julius Thomas: 4th round draft pick
Jacob Tamme: 4th round draft pick

Draft value: 20

I don't have the patience to do this for all 32 NFL teams. . . but I'm wondering if there is any team in the NFL that has invested less in their receiver corps than the Seahawks?

Since Russell's "receiving weapons" are ever bit as good as the receiving talented targeted by Luck, Brady, Brees, Rogers, and Manning. . . and since Pete and John were able to assess this talent by picking mainly from undrafted free agents. . .they must be regarded as talent evaluator geniuses.

It's just too bad for these elite receivers that they are handicapped by being targeted by a quarterback with obviously inferior passing potential. . .

A for effort. F for Flawed system. For example, the Hawks gave up a 1st, 3rd, and 7th for Percy. Does this not account for investing in weapons? And if so, what would it be? -11? +11? You also have guys like Nicks and Wayne for Luck when they were drafted by another team or already there before Luck got there. Also, is Luck then penalized for helping turn Super Bowl hero Nicks into a turd or does he get equal credit as Cam Newton would, if he were on the list, to turning journeyman castoff former first rounder Ted Ginn into respectability? And does Ginn all of a sudden looking like an actual receiver make it appear as though investments have been made, since he was a first rounder, when other teams couldn't get rid of him fast enough?

 

[olyfan63]

It is disconcerting that a backup, Kirk Cousins, can go 20 for 27 and 190 yards against the Ravens, and Russell can only muster 7 for 15 and 56 yards. That is disconcerting.
That is all, carry on.

Cousins is a legit NFL QB; regular season QB rating of 86 in 2014, 10 TD's, 9 picks. No slouch. Sounds like the Redskins will go with him as their *STARTER* for week 1.

Not the greatest *arm*, not really a running threat, but a sharp football mind and solid leadership. Kind of a slightly bigger version of Dave Krieg.

Cousins vs. Wilson 2011 Big 10 games, Michigan State vs. Wisconsin, were the stuff of legend. Cousins could have easily been 2-0 in those games vs. Wilson. As a pro, Cousins has mostly been increasingly solid when given the opportunity.

 

[Anthony!]

I agree most have better "perceivable" weapons, but I'm not sure that those top guys don't make those lines, RB, and WRs look better. Deion Branch is a great example of that.. Was a SB MVP for Brady and a slouch for us Seahawks. I don't actually think Randell Cobb and Jordy Nelson are all that great. I think they are above average WRs, but I think Rodgers makes them look like All pros. The QB always enhances or downgrades the weapons. I don't think Russell has worse weapons then Luck, Rodgers, Brees or Brady

Amazing the things that you can find out from this forum. What I just found out is that Pete and John are going to be legendary in NFL history for their brilliance in drafting players and signing undrafted players.

Consider the top five receivers (wide receivers and tight ends) in 2014 for Russell Wilson, Andrew Luck, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, and Tom Brady -- and their relative draft positions. To try to assess their perceived worth at draft time, I'll add up the rounds they were drafted in -- and consider that undrafted free agents were "drafted" in the eighth round. The lower the total score, the more the team invested in receivers. The lowest possible score -- indicating the highest rank -- would be 5 -- five receivers taken in the first round. The highest possible score -- indicating the lowest rank -- would be 40 -- five receivers who were undrafted free agents.

First, for Russell Wilson:

Doug Baldwin: Undrafted Free Agent
Jermaine Kearse: Undrafted Free Agent
Luke Willson: 5th round
Paul Richardson: 2nd round
Ricardo Lockette: Undrafted Free Agent

Draft value: 8 + 8 + 5 + 2 + 8 == 31

Second, for Andrew Luck:

T.Y. Hilton: 3rd round
Reggie Wayne: 1st round
Coby Fleener: 2nd round
Hakeem Nicks: 1st round
Donte Moncrief: 3rd round

Draft value: 10

Third -- here's Aaron Rodgers top five receivers.

Jordy Nelson: 2nd round
Randall Cobb: 2nd round
Davante Adams: 2nd round
Andrew Quarless: 5th round
Richard Rogers: 3rd round

Draft value: 14

Fourth -- the New Orleans Saints and Drew Brees:

Jimmy Graham: 3rd round
Kenny Stills: 5th round
Marques Colston: 7th round
Brandon Cooks: 1st round
Travaris Cadet: Undrafted Free Agent

Draft value: 24

Fifth -- Tom Brady:

Julian Edelman -- 7th round
Rob Gronkowski -- 2nd round
Brandon LaFell -- 3rd round
Danny Amendola -- Undrafted Free Agent
Timothy Wright -- Undrafted Free Agent

Draft value: 28

Although not cited with the other four, I thought it would be interesting to check on the "weapons" that Peyton Manning has at Denver:

Demaryius Thomas: 1st round draft pick
Emmanuel Sanders: 3rd round draft pick
Wes Welker: undrafted free agent
Julius Thomas: 4th round draft pick
Jacob Tamme: 4th round draft pick

Draft value: 20

I don't have the patience to do this for all 32 NFL teams. . . but I'm wondering if there is any team in the NFL that has invested less in their receiver corps than the Seahawks?

Since Russell's "receiving weapons" are ever bit as good as the receiving talented targeted by Luck, Brady, Brees, Rogers, and Manning. . . and since Pete and John were able to assess this talent by picking mainly from undrafted free agents. . .they must be regarded as talent evaluator geniuses.

It's just too bad for these elite receivers that they are handicapped by being targeted by a quarterback with obviously inferior passing potential. . .

A for effort. F for Flawed system. For example, the Hawks gave up a 1st, 3rd, and 7th for Percy. Does this not account for investing in weapons? And if so, what would it be? -11? +11? You also have guys like Nicks and Wayne for Luck when they were drafted by another team or already there before Luck got there. Also, is Luck then penalized for helping turn Super Bowl hero Nicks into a turd or does he get equal credit as Cam Newton would, if he were on the list, to turning journeyman castoff former first rounder Ted Ginn into respectability? And does Ginn all of a sudden looking like an actual receiver make it appear as though investments have been made, since he was a first rounder, when other teams couldn't get rid of him fast enough?

There is flaws in any system but the facts are the experts ranked Lucks Wr top 10 and our bottom 10

 

[MontanaHawk05]

I don't think Russell has worse weapons then Luck, Rodgers, Brees or Brady

I would disagree with that. Russell was all right throwing to Zach Miller and Golden Tate. After they left, things got a lot tougher. And we're still relying on Chris Matthews to provide a legitimate second big target to really open up this offense; Tyler Lockett is still solid, but infuriatingly small.

 

[ctrcat]

I agree most have better "perceivable" weapons, but I'm not sure that those top guys don't make those lines, RB, and WRs look better. Deion Branch is a great example of that.. Was a SB MVP for Brady and a slouch for us Seahawks. I don't actually think Randell Cobb and Jordy Nelson are all that great. I think they are above average WRs, but I think Rodgers makes them look like All pros. The QB always enhances or downgrades the weapons. I don't think Russell has worse weapons then Luck, Rodgers, Brees or Brady

Amazing the things that you can find out from this forum. What I just found out is that Pete and John are going to be legendary in NFL history for their brilliance in drafting players and signing undrafted players.

Consider the top five receivers (wide receivers and tight ends) in 2014 for Russell Wilson, Andrew Luck, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, and Tom Brady -- and their relative draft positions. To try to assess their perceived worth at draft time, I'll add up the rounds they were drafted in -- and consider that undrafted free agents were "drafted" in the eighth round. The lower the total score, the more the team invested in receivers. The lowest possible score -- indicating the highest rank -- would be 5 -- five receivers taken in the first round. The highest possible score -- indicating the lowest rank -- would be 40 -- five receivers who were undrafted free agents.

First, for Russell Wilson:

Doug Baldwin: Undrafted Free Agent
Jermaine Kearse: Undrafted Free Agent
Luke Willson: 5th round
Paul Richardson: 2nd round
Ricardo Lockette: Undrafted Free Agent

Draft value: 8 + 8 + 5 + 2 + 8 == 31

Second, for Andrew Luck:

T.Y. Hilton: 3rd round
Reggie Wayne: 1st round
Coby Fleener: 2nd round
Hakeem Nicks: 1st round
Donte Moncrief: 3rd round

Draft value: 10

Third -- here's Aaron Rodgers top five receivers.

Jordy Nelson: 2nd round
Randall Cobb: 2nd round
Davante Adams: 2nd round
Andrew Quarless: 5th round
Richard Rogers: 3rd round

Draft value: 14

Fourth -- the New Orleans Saints and Drew Brees:

Jimmy Graham: 3rd round
Kenny Stills: 5th round
Marques Colston: 7th round
Brandon Cooks: 1st round
Travaris Cadet: Undrafted Free Agent

Draft value: 24

Fifth -- Tom Brady:

Julian Edelman -- 7th round
Rob Gronkowski -- 2nd round
Brandon LaFell -- 3rd round
Danny Amendola -- Undrafted Free Agent
Timothy Wright -- Undrafted Free Agent

Draft value: 28

Although not cited with the other four, I thought it would be interesting to check on the "weapons" that Peyton Manning has at Denver:

Demaryius Thomas: 1st round draft pick
Emmanuel Sanders: 3rd round draft pick
Wes Welker: undrafted free agent
Julius Thomas: 4th round draft pick
Jacob Tamme: 4th round draft pick

Draft value: 20

I don't have the patience to do this for all 32 NFL teams. . . but I'm wondering if there is any team in the NFL that has invested less in their receiver corps than the Seahawks?

Since Russell's "receiving weapons" are ever bit as good as the receiving talented targeted by Luck, Brady, Brees, Rogers, and Manning. . . and since Pete and John were able to assess this talent by picking mainly from undrafted free agents. . .they must be regarded as talent evaluator geniuses.

It's just too bad for these elite receivers that they are handicapped by being targeted by a quarterback with obviously inferior passing potential. . .

A for effort. F for Flawed system. For example, the Hawks gave up a 1st, 3rd, and 7th for Percy. Does this not account for investing in weapons? And if so, what would it be? -11? +11? You also have guys like Nicks and Wayne for Luck when they were drafted by another team or already there before Luck got there. Also, is Luck then penalized for helping turn Super Bowl hero Nicks into a turd or does he get equal credit as Cam Newton would, if he were on the list, to turning journeyman castoff former first rounder Ted Ginn into respectability? And does Ginn all of a sudden looking like an actual receiver make it appear as though investments have been made, since he was a first rounder, when other teams couldn't get rid of him fast enough?

There is flaws in any system but the facts are the experts ranked Lucks Wr top 10 and our bottom 10

I agree with that. Again they've invested 68% of their draft on offense after taking Luck (not even including the throw a risk/reward WR turd against the wall and see what sticks, Da'Rick Rogers, Nu'keese Richardson, Duron Carter, Nicks, et al). That might make Luck a fantasy hero but in no means will make him a Super Bowl Champ anytime soon, IMHO.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

Are people really concerned?

Really?

This is virtually the same team that went to the Super Bowl the last two years, but now they have Jimmy Graham.

Come on.

 

[DavidSeven]

Got to attend live and watched some of the broadcast later:

The passing game didn't look good, but I didn't see anything there to cause panic. The first series was ruined by the unconverted 3rd-and-1. Alvin Bailey ruined the second series -- false start and then blown assignment causing an intentional grounding penalty. No chance after that.

Russell just had a tough day. There were plays where the pocket was good enough, but the throws were off and he didn't give his receivers great opportunities. He has to put air under that ball to Graham in the endzone; give him a chance. These things should improve. Russ will be better.

This is going to be a long year if our OL can't convert short yardage. Pretty sure the OL has been blown up on every short yardage run this preseason. Russell struggles on 3rd-and-long; OL can't convert 3rd-and-short. If I had to single out a concern on offense, this would be it. 3rd down will be something to watch.

Archer looks even worse live than he does on TV.

 

[Northwest Seahawk]

The running game is good it's the passing game that needs to improve. The O-line is a work in progress i think it will be good enough it just needs time to gel. WR well hopefully some of the poor decisions they have made over the past few years doesn't come back to haunt them but I wouldn't count on it.

 

[Lords of Scythia]

Hopefully by the when regular season starts RW will play like HE is the best player in the world!

Been looking at himself in the mirror too much me thinks

Wouldn't you be? With that fly hair-style and all?

 

[KiwiHawk]

Are people really concerned?

Really?

This is virtually the same team that went to the Super Bowl the last two years, but now they have Jimmy Graham.

Come on.

Yes I am concerned.

We just granted an 87 million dollar contract to a guy who has yet to lead the offense of a touchdown in the pre-season. This same player started VERY slow in his last two outings - NFCCG and Super Bowl, and dug huge holes for his team to climb out of.

I don't know or care what his problem is, but he needs to get his crap together.

This is not the same player who posted 100+ QB ratings. This guy is indecisive and inaccurate.

This isn't routes or scheme or pressure or other excuses; this is our starting quarterback who values preparation looking like he's mailing it in.

He's been shown the money; now he needs to show the skills and he just plain hasn't in three outings.

It's the same name on the same team - but is it the same player?

 

[Laloosh]

Honestly, no offense to the OP but sometimes I think fans are waiting for football to start back up just so they'll have something to complain about.

Offense looks bad but I feel like we were saying the same thing last year.

Can't we lose a regular season game before everyone is up in arms?

 

[ivotuk]

So based on what we have seen? Has the offense even looked good this preseason?

I am going to vehemently disagree with the "it's just preseason" mantra that people are desperately clinging to here.

For most of the winning run by the Seahawks (call it past 2 years), the Seahawks have been consistent in what they do in preseason. The offense gets out there for a few series, does well or dominates, and then we pull in the starters and then the team looks much more mortal.

This preseason, the team has looked terrible.

It was telling that not only were we blitzing in the preseason but we also kept Wilson out there that long. Of course he looked horrible no matter how long we kept him out there, but not sure he got a lot of help from that offensive line. Guys were in the backfield constantly.

The team has looked like crap. Even the defense, though I will say that line looks a little better now. The secondary is nowhere near the vise it was, and you can apparently run right up the gut against our d even as a middle of the road RB.

Now we have some time to fix things, but so far this team looks nothing like the team we had. And I get the whole preseason stuff, but when our starters were in - we still looked like a far below even pedestrian offense.

Nothing about the way we have seen this team plays inspires any confidence. We will see how the St. Louis game shakes out but so far, this is an unpleasant indicator.

Don't most teams trot out their first team offense for the first possession after halftime in Preseason game #3?

Your points are valid though, we never struggled this badly the last two years in preseason, at least to my recollection.

Yes, most do. He clearly doesn't know that but it is good to be educated about what other teams do so I'm sure he will now understand that.

Actually, that's not true anymore. Teams are changing things up and leaning towards not playing veteran QBs in to the second half.

Part of the reason, I believe that Russell was in there in the third was because Archer was our other QB. But I agree, RW loks like he needs the reps.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

The thought of Bailey at either tackle spot during the regular season is flat out scarey. If they can't find a backup tackle better than him after cuts begin, they're just not trying.

:13:

 

[Anthony!]

Are people really concerned?

Really?

This is virtually the same team that went to the Super Bowl the last two years, but now they have Jimmy Graham.

Come on.

Yes I am concerned.

We just granted an 87 million dollar contract to a guy who has yet to lead the offense of a touchdown in the pre-season. This same player started VERY slow in his last two outings - NFCCG and Super Bowl, and dug huge holes for his team to climb out of.

I don't know or care what his problem is, but he needs to get his crap together.

This is not the same player who posted 100+ QB ratings. This guy is indecisive and inaccurate.

This isn't routes or scheme or pressure or other excuses; this is our starting quarterback who values preparation looking like he's mailing it in.

He's been shown the money; now he needs to show the skills and he just plain hasn't in three outings.

It's the same name on the same team - but is it the same player?

ukeface:

 

[ivotuk]

The thought of Bailey at either tackle spot during the regular season is flat out scarey. If they can't find a backup tackle better than him after cuts begin, they're just not trying.

:13:

:13:

 

[lukerguy]

I agree most have better "perceivable" weapons, but I'm not sure that those top guys don't make those lines, RB, and WRs look better. Deion Branch is a great example of that.. Was a SB MVP for Brady and a slouch for us Seahawks. I don't actually think Randell Cobb and Jordy Nelson are all that great. I think they are above average WRs, but I think Rodgers makes them look like All pros. The QB always enhances or downgrades the weapons. I don't think Russell has worse weapons then Luck, Rodgers, Brees or Brady

Amazing the things that you can find out from this forum. What I just found out is that Pete and John are going to be legendary in NFL history for their brilliance in drafting players and signing undrafted players.

Consider the top five receivers (wide receivers and tight ends) in 2014 for Russell Wilson, Andrew Luck, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, and Tom Brady -- and their relative draft positions. To try to assess their perceived worth at draft time, I'll add up the rounds they were drafted in -- and consider that undrafted free agents were "drafted" in the eighth round. The lower the total score, the more the team invested in receivers. The lowest possible score -- indicating the highest rank -- would be 5 -- five receivers taken in the first round. The highest possible score -- indicating the lowest rank -- would be 40 -- five receivers who were undrafted free agents.

First, for Russell Wilson:

Doug Baldwin: Undrafted Free Agent
Jermaine Kearse: Undrafted Free Agent
Luke Willson: 5th round
Paul Richardson: 2nd round
Ricardo Lockette: Undrafted Free Agent

Draft value: 8 + 8 + 5 + 2 + 8 == 31

Second, for Andrew Luck:

T.Y. Hilton: 3rd round
Reggie Wayne: 1st round
Coby Fleener: 2nd round
Hakeem Nicks: 1st round
Donte Moncrief: 3rd round

Draft value: 10

Third -- here's Aaron Rodgers top five receivers.

Jordy Nelson: 2nd round
Randall Cobb: 2nd round
Davante Adams: 2nd round
Andrew Quarless: 5th round
Richard Rogers: 3rd round

Draft value: 14

Fourth -- the New Orleans Saints and Drew Brees:

Jimmy Graham: 3rd round
Kenny Stills: 5th round
Marques Colston: 7th round
Brandon Cooks: 1st round
Travaris Cadet: Undrafted Free Agent

Draft value: 24

Fifth -- Tom Brady:

Julian Edelman -- 7th round
Rob Gronkowski -- 2nd round
Brandon LaFell -- 3rd round
Danny Amendola -- Undrafted Free Agent
Timothy Wright -- Undrafted Free Agent

Draft value: 28

Although not cited with the other four, I thought it would be interesting to check on the "weapons" that Peyton Manning has at Denver:

Demaryius Thomas: 1st round draft pick
Emmanuel Sanders: 3rd round draft pick
Wes Welker: undrafted free agent
Julius Thomas: 4th round draft pick
Jacob Tamme: 4th round draft pick

Draft value: 20

I don't have the patience to do this for all 32 NFL teams. . . but I'm wondering if there is any team in the NFL that has invested less in their receiver corps than the Seahawks?

Since Russell's "receiving weapons" are ever bit as good as the receiving talented targeted by Luck, Brady, Brees, Rogers, and Manning. . . and since Pete and John were able to assess this talent by picking mainly from undrafted free agents. . .they must be regarded as talent evaluator geniuses.

It's just too bad for these elite receivers that they are handicapped by being targeted by a quarterback with obviously inferior passing potential. . .

This is a pretty classic example of taking select data to make your point. Either you stretched on what I said and made assumptions or you understood what I said and have flawed logic. I specifically left Denver out and didn't cite them because I believe Manning does have better weapons in Thomas, Sanders ect.

First of all I never said the Seahawks have drafted high picks for weapons to be allocated for Russell. Also, your comparison is past rosters- I didn't say anything about what Russell has had in the past, did I? In the past I do believe we have had lessor weapons than the others mentions.

Your first flawed logic: 1) That where a player is drafted impacts their current talent or value. If that were the case, you could point to the numerous players on D (Sherm, Chancellor, Wright..ect) that have been taken in the later rounds. Is Sherman better than Justin Gilbert who went 8th overall? So let's just ignore your assessment of where players were selected.

Also, I personally think a RB is a QBs best weapon. It opens up everything else... especially if they can CATCH.

Let's also cut out previous years since I've never mentioned anything pertaining to previous years. I'm talking about how Russell has looked worse this pre-season and how he has better weapons than ever before- akin to the other top QBs.




Russell
-Jimmy Graham (The best receiving TE in the league) 3rd round pick, but who cares where he went?
- Doug Baldwin (Extremely good slot guy. Got separation against "the best corner in the game- Revis" in the super bowl.
- Jermaine Kearse (Average WR)
-Tyler Lockett I believe he will be a poor man's Antonio Brown. Considering Brown is the best WR in the league, I think pretty highly on this kid. He's already the 2nd best WR on the team.
- Chris Matthews
- Paul Richardson. (Hey we used a 2nd round pick on him, that means he's awesome right?)

Marshawn Lynch - Best RB in the league if you consider rushing and receiving.

Now let's compare NE for example
Gronk and Graham are comparable.
Edleman and Baldwin are comparable
Lafell and Kearse are comparable
Lockett is better than amendola
Willson is better than Wright.

Which RB is going to start? No comparison.

Now let's compare GB:
Graham and Nelson are comparable
Cobb is slightly better than Baldwin (slightly) Baldwin would tear it up in GB too in the slot.
Lockett and davante adams are comparable
Quarless and Willson are comparable
Kearse and matthews are better than their 4/5 WRs.

Lacy is a great back. Still not as good as Marshawn.

 

[Anthony!]

I agree most have better "perceivable" weapons, but I'm not sure that those top guys don't make those lines, RB, and WRs look better. Deion Branch is a great example of that.. Was a SB MVP for Brady and a slouch for us Seahawks. I don't actually think Randell Cobb and Jordy Nelson are all that great. I think they are above average WRs, but I think Rodgers makes them look like All pros. The QB always enhances or downgrades the weapons. I don't think Russell has worse weapons then Luck, Rodgers, Brees or Brady

Amazing the things that you can find out from this forum. What I just found out is that Pete and John are going to be legendary in NFL history for their brilliance in drafting players and signing undrafted players.

Consider the top five receivers (wide receivers and tight ends) in 2014 for Russell Wilson, Andrew Luck, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, and Tom Brady -- and their relative draft positions. To try to assess their perceived worth at draft time, I'll add up the rounds they were drafted in -- and consider that undrafted free agents were "drafted" in the eighth round. The lower the total score, the more the team invested in receivers. The lowest possible score -- indicating the highest rank -- would be 5 -- five receivers taken in the first round. The highest possible score -- indicating the lowest rank -- would be 40 -- five receivers who were undrafted free agents.

First, for Russell Wilson:

Doug Baldwin: Undrafted Free Agent
Jermaine Kearse: Undrafted Free Agent
Luke Willson: 5th round
Paul Richardson: 2nd round
Ricardo Lockette: Undrafted Free Agent

Draft value: 8 + 8 + 5 + 2 + 8 == 31

Second, for Andrew Luck:

T.Y. Hilton: 3rd round
Reggie Wayne: 1st round
Coby Fleener: 2nd round
Hakeem Nicks: 1st round
Donte Moncrief: 3rd round

Draft value: 10

Third -- here's Aaron Rodgers top five receivers.

Jordy Nelson: 2nd round
Randall Cobb: 2nd round
Davante Adams: 2nd round
Andrew Quarless: 5th round
Richard Rogers: 3rd round

Draft value: 14

Fourth -- the New Orleans Saints and Drew Brees:

Jimmy Graham: 3rd round
Kenny Stills: 5th round
Marques Colston: 7th round
Brandon Cooks: 1st round
Travaris Cadet: Undrafted Free Agent

Draft value: 24

Fifth -- Tom Brady:

Julian Edelman -- 7th round
Rob Gronkowski -- 2nd round
Brandon LaFell -- 3rd round
Danny Amendola -- Undrafted Free Agent
Timothy Wright -- Undrafted Free Agent

Draft value: 28

Although not cited with the other four, I thought it would be interesting to check on the "weapons" that Peyton Manning has at Denver:

Demaryius Thomas: 1st round draft pick
Emmanuel Sanders: 3rd round draft pick
Wes Welker: undrafted free agent
Julius Thomas: 4th round draft pick
Jacob Tamme: 4th round draft pick

Draft value: 20

I don't have the patience to do this for all 32 NFL teams. . . but I'm wondering if there is any team in the NFL that has invested less in their receiver corps than the Seahawks?

Since Russell's "receiving weapons" are ever bit as good as the receiving talented targeted by Luck, Brady, Brees, Rogers, and Manning. . . and since Pete and John were able to assess this talent by picking mainly from undrafted free agents. . .they must be regarded as talent evaluator geniuses.

It's just too bad for these elite receivers that they are handicapped by being targeted by a quarterback with obviously inferior passing potential. . .

This is a pretty classic example of taking select data to make your point. Either you stretched on what I said and made assumptions or you understood what I said and have flawed logic. I specifically left Denver out and didn't cite them because I believe Manning does have better weapons in Thomas, Sanders ect.

First of all I never said the Seahawks have drafted high picks for weapons to be allocated for Russell. Also, your comparison is past rosters- I didn't say anything about what Russell has had in the past, did I? In the past I do believe we have had lessor weapons than the others mentions.

Your first flawed logic: 1) That where a player is drafted impacts their current talent or value. If that were the case, you could point to the numerous players on D (Sherm, Chancellor, Wright..ect) that have been taken in the later rounds. Is Sherman better than Justin Gilbert who went 8th overall? So let's just ignore your assessment of where players were selected.

Let's also cut out previous years since I've never mentioned anything pertaining to previous years. I'm talking about how Russell has looked worse this pre-season and how he has better weapons than ever before- akin to the other top QBs.


Russell
-Jimmy Graham (The best receiving TE in the league) 3rd round pick, but who cares where he went?
- Doug Baldwin (Extremely good slot guy. Got separation against "the best corner in the game- Revis" in the super bowl.
- Jermaine Kearse (Average WR)
-Tyler Lockett I believe he will be a poor man's Antonio Brown. Considering Brown is the best WR in the league, I think pretty highly on this kid. He's already the 2nd best WR on the team.
- Chris Matthews
- Paul Richardson. (Hey we used a 2nd round pick on him, that means he's awesome right?)

Now let's compare NE for example
Gronk and Graham are comparable.
Edleman and Baldwin are comparable
Lafell and Kearse are comparable
Lockett is better than amendola
Willson is better than Wright.

Now let's compare GB:
Graham and Nelson are comparable
Cobb is slightly better than Baldwin (slightly) Baldwin would tear it up in GB too in the slot.
Lockett and davante adams are comparable
Quarless and Willson are comparable
Kearse and matthews are better than their 4/5 WRs.

Yeah I do not agree with your comparisons at all. Edleman is better than Baldwin period, and Cobb is way more than slightly better than Baldwin. So sorry there is a reason both NE and GB had higher ranking WRs groupings than we did. Their talent is better. Now with Graham it is closer but again that is this year. In the last 3 both of those QBs had better talent.