After the first game

[Mick063]

Yes...These are all obvious points aren't they not? But if we look under the hood of the car we are seeing exciting stuff. No one is predicting anything. I'm simply noticing a change in techniques.

It's pretty exciting exciting to me to see power stepping techniques as opposed to mirror techniques. This has nothing to do with 'gelling.' This has nothing to do which players are playing. Let's just explore the X's and O's to explain things.

"X's and O's". An "under the hood" look at camp fodder. I'm not going to take the "let's talk about examining the tendencies of impending roster cuts" bait.

Examining the technique of camp bodies isn't an exercise worth ringing the alarm bell for. Even Vince Lombardi couldn't coach up an UDFA to your expectations in a two-month time frame.

 

[Chawker]

I was going over the stats from the game, and we had a real good well balanced game.

8 passing first downs vs 7 rushing first downs. We wom T.O.P.

Our defense put the ball back into the offense hands which gave more opportunity to get it done.

Our defense gave up only TWO rushing first downs. All in all a good well balanced performance.


Cheers

 

[Fade]

I'm curious why more aren't talking about the actual schemes that the team is using. You can't take much from plays and concepts in the pre-season because teams want to hide those. However actual techniques being taught you can't hide those. The Seahawks in this game changed what was a major thorn last season. They couldn't figure out whether they wanted to 1-gap or 2-gap. It become problematic during nickel packages. D-Line and LBs didn't know their run fits and gaps. Players didn't feel comfortable and thought too much.

I was encouraging to see the team employing 1-gap techniques in this first game. Is Pete Carroll is going back to what worked in the past to stop the run? Who knows what will happen in-season. Will Pete revert back or will the defense stay with some of the Fangio stuff. Was Desai that influential on the schemes? I'm very curious to see what this front 7 look like with the 1s. I'm cautiously bullish based on the scheme.

It's clear that the Seahawks want to keep the 3-4 defense because they now have 3-4 Edges. I just find it interesting that Reed is our 'NT' but really is going to be more of a 1-T and that will fit him much better. He has done it in the past and done it well. Dre Jones is the 3T and Mario Edwards is the 5T. SAM/LEO will be pretty fluid with the Edges.

Y'see Pete used to describe his defense as a 4-3 with 3-4 personnel until last season.

in the over/under fronts the Sam plays on the LoS and sets the edge. 4-3 under looks like a 3-4 to the untrained eye. Many times over the LoB years people would say the Seahawks should move to a 3-4 because of their personnel. Not understanding what that actually meant, but just looking at the roster they had.

Irvin & Clemons as your edge guys, KJ & Bobby as your ILBers, Mebane as your nose, Bennett and Big Red as your ends, etc.

But I prefer Pete's 1 gap way over the 2 gapping read 'n react of the 3-4. Especially with how quick the NFL game is now, you don't have time to 2 gap. At times I think it's fine for 1 D-Lineman to 2 gap (to steal a gap, and gain an advantage. They used to do this with Red Bryant and Mebane at times.) But to have your whole D-Line 2 gapping, with the Linebackers behind them having to read it and be right is asking too much, unless you have the best damn coaches teaching it. Which they don't based on last season.

Pete's way is better. What was broken with the Seahawks defense in the past wasn't that they were not a 3-4. It was their predictable, telegraphed coverages, combined with the pass rush falling off. The entire league built up a playbook of Seahawks beaters because so many teams copycat'd the Seahawks defense over the years. That is where the change is/was needed.

Quinn adjusted clearly. Pete just needs to copy off of Quinn's sheet. Absolutely baffling he wasn't offered a truck full of money to come be the DC here after ATL fired him.

 

[Seattle Person]

"X's and O's". An "under the hood" look at camp fodder. I'm not going to take the "let's talk about examining the tendencies of impending roster cuts" bait.

Examining the technique of camp bodies isn't an exercise worth ringing the alarm bell for. Even Vince Lombardi couldn't coach up an UDFA to your expectations in a two-month time frame.

I don't really understand what point you're trying to make...

Are you saying that we shouldn't care about anything until later in the season? Not over-react? The second point I will agree with. There will be a lot of over reacting to many things in the pre-season and early season.

However the technique completely matters. It will translate to the philosophy and scheme the team is trying to employ. There is a pretty big difference in a 2-gap technique and a 1-gap technique. It doesn't matter if its camp bodies or not. It is the team's philosophy. The 3rd-string DTs will do what the 2nd-string and 1st-string players do. It's not blowing smoke.

I didn't really care what players did statistically. I simply cared about how they lined up and where they attacked. That matters! Last pre-season the Seahawks came out in odd-fronts playing mirroring techniques. Guess what? That's what they did in the season. So you may not think it's exciting but I think it's pretty important.

If the run defense does get fixed in the season -- there will be plenty of people saying things like "They play so well together. They gelled together." They just needed so and so. No...look at the X's and O's. It explains a lot!

 

[Seattle Person]

Y'see Pete used to describe his defense as a 4-3 with 3-4 personnel until last season.

in the over/under fronts the Sam plays on the LoS and sets the edge. 4-3 under looks like a 3-4 to the untrained eye. Many times over the LoB years people would say the Seahawks should move to a 3-4 because of their personnel. Not understanding what that actually meant, but just looking at the roster they had.

Irvin & Clemons as your edge guys, KJ & Bobby as your ILBers, Mebane as your nose, Bennett and Big Red as your ends, etc.

But I prefer Pete's 1 gap way over the 2 gapping read 'n react of the 3-4. Especially with how quick the NFL game is now, you don't have time to 2 gap. At times I think it's fine for 1 D-Lineman to 2 gap (to steal a gap, and gain an advantage. They used to do this with Red Bryant and Mebane at times.) But to have your whole D-Line 2 gapping, with the Linebackers behind them having to read it and be right is asking too much, unless you have the best damn coaches teaching it. Which they don't based on last season.

Pete's way is better. What was broken with the Seahawks defense in the past wasn't that they were not a 3-4. It was their predictable, telegraphed coverages, combined with the pass rush falling off. The entire league built up a playbook of Seahawks beaters because so many teams copycat'd the Seahawks defense over the years. That is where the change is/was needed.

Quinn adjusted clearly. Pete just needs to copy off of Quinn's sheet. Absolutely baffling he wasn't offered a truck full of money to come be the DC here after ATL fired him.

It's too much reading and not attacking. It's just not the Pete way. This allows the LBs to fire much quicker. It allows the safeties to make easier reads.

 

[CouchLogic]

This team looks fired up and they're going to be tough week in and week out.

The defense looks a lot better. Everyone and everything looked a bit tighter and polished (compared to ladt year). It's the first game too, so that's good to see.

The whiffed PR, recovery for a TD was bang-bang smooth. Shout out to the ST unit.

Lock looked like Lock. He's a Gun Slinger for sure, just not sure you want that in a backup QB.

TLDR, Teams hungry, looks improved on defense, going to catch some teams off guard.

 

[olyfan63]

"X's and O's". An "under the hood" look at camp fodder. I'm not going to take the "let's talk about examining the tendencies of impending roster cuts" bait.

Examining the technique of camp bodies isn't an exercise worth ringing the alarm bell for. Even Vince Lombardi couldn't coach up an UDFA to your expectations in a two-month time frame.

I appreciated both sets of points. Mick's model in terms of what to expect from the D, in what timeframe, and no, not necessarily obvious, and he could be wrong, for THIS team. (e.g., due to factors like Bobby's leadership and experience accelerating the gelling process, or some other factor slowing it down) So I will watch with interest to see how reality aligns with his proposed model.

SP, (and Fade) I appreciated your points about technique and it makes sense to me that if the 3's come out emphasizing different alignments and techniques across the board, that we should expect to see those same year-to-year changes from the 1's when they play more. My takeaway (right or wrong) is that the 2-gap system (attributed to the Vic Fangio philosophy) requires too much thinking, too much instant communication/reads/coordination by too many players, and Pete/Seattle doesn't have the coaching/culture to do that effectively, so Pete is going back to his roots, to a simpler, faster 1-gap system where players have fewer, faster reads, with only a few tweaks where 2-gap concepts might still be used. As you said (about all the complex, potentially slow reads) "it's just not the Pete way". I hope you'll provide an update on what you see on this the next couple games.

I've gone back and watched a few games of 2013/14-ish "Peak LOB" and it was impressive seeing how fast and cohesively that defense played, compared to what we've seen the last few years. At the time it was just "the Seahawks playing D" and I somewhat took it for granted, not realizing how special what we were seeing was.

 

[olyfan63]

If eskridge was a 5th round pick (as he ought to have been) he'd have been gone two years ago. It won't be a difficult decision to keep Bobo over Eskridge unless Schneider is trying too much to protect his ego.

Similarly Thompson and Johnson have not flashed as much as Bobo in his short time here. Dareke Young is the only WR I'd put ahead of Bobo for WR4. And that's largely because of his blocking and ST prowess.

I like that analysis, Eskridge should have been a 5th round pick, IF Pete, John, and Scouts factored in 1) Eskridge's college injury history; and 2) Eskridge's lower level of play. It's like they over-salivated over Eskridge's "underwear Olympics" numbers, his production numbers against weak competition, and also had very limited psych profile to know his character, and issues such as (possible) learning disabilities that could impact the speed of his development as a pro. In hindsight, a 5th rounder would have been about right, with these concerns. However, Eskridge probably would have been taken by another team in say, the 4th round, due to the same factors that lured in the Seahawks. We'll see if Pete & John update their draft process to sharpen some of these points. Actually, it seems they already have, given the improvement of the last two post-Eskridge drafts.

That said, Eskridge actually still has a shot to be a decent pro, but this season is make or break for him, in terms of both injury issues, and "getting it" like Golden Tate did in his 3rd year. (KJ Wright had an awesome interview with Tate on KJ & Gee's podcast a few weeks ago)

 

[chris98251]

This team looks fired up and they're going to be tough week in and week out.

The defense looks a lot better. Everyone and everything looked a bit tighter and polished (compared to ladt year). It's the first game too, so that's good to see.

The whiffed PR, recovery for a TD was bang-bang smooth. Shout out to the ST unit.

Lock looked like Lock. He's a Gun Slinger for sure, just not sure you want that in a backup QB.

TLDR, Teams hungry, looks improved on defense, going to catch some teams off guard.

Hmmm Gunslinger, Farve, Fouts, Bradshaw, Stabler, Rodgers, Moon, Elway, Lamonica, I'll take that and it's fun to watch.