Adams to come off pup list

[BlueTalon]

Strike that one. The Browns ended up trading Richardson to the Colts for a #1 draft pick.

Reminiscent of when we unloaded Mirer to Chicago for a 1st round pick, IIRC.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

12th Man Rising ranked the top worst trades in Seahawk history:

1. Percy Harvin
2. Jimmy Graham
3. Kelly Stouffer
4. Ahmad Rashad
5. Deion Branch

5 biggest trade mistakes for the Seattle Seahawks in franchise history

The Seattle Seahawks have mostly been a better-than-average franchise since the team's inception in 1976. The 1990s weren't a great time for 12s, but many of th

12thmanrising.com

The reason Adams isn't on that list is because we haven't closed the book on him yet. But if he doesn't make a significant contribution and we move away from him, I'm sure it will go down as the worst trade in history.

I guess that's where we differ. I think we have closed the door on him.

From the scheme switch, to the Love signing, to moving Bryant to safety, to the Jerrick Reed draft pick. No part of this says "Jamal Adams is any part of our 2023 plans."

IMO he's broken, and the film says he was broken even before the serious thigh tear. I'd be shocked if Adams comes back in any capacity to contribute this season, and will be cut immediately after the season's over.

 

[RiverDog]

I guess that's where we differ. I think we have closed the door on him.

From the scheme switch, to the Love signing, to moving Bryant to safety, to the Jerrick Reed draft pick. No part of this says "Jamal Adams is any part of our 2023 plans."

IMO he's broken, and the film says he was broken even before the serious thigh tear. I'd be shocked if Adams comes back in any capacity to contribute this season, and will be cut immediately after the season's over.

Although I share your opinion of him and think it's very unlikely that he'll be able to make a contribution large enough to salvage the trade and justify what we're paying him, we can't close the book on him until he's off our roster. As Yogi Berra would say, it ain't over until it's over.

 

[RiverDog]

Reminiscent of when we unloaded Mirer to Chicago for a 1st round pick, IIRC.

Yup. We also harpooned the Cowboys in the Joey Galloway trade and the Colts with Fredd Young.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Although I share your opinion of him and think it's very unlikely that he'll be able to make a contribution large enough to salvage the trade and justify what we're paying him, we can't close the book on him until he's off our roster. As Yogi Berra would say, it ain't over until it's over.

Absolutely.

When your expectations on a scale of 1-10 is a zero..........even a 2 or 3 contribution level will feel like a moral victory.

 

[RiverDog]

The Jimmy Graham trade was a net negative, but not even close to the top 5 worst trades.

He was productive. Setting franchise records in his 3 years.

There are liars, damn liars, and then there are statisticians.

Graham was productive if you're into Fantasy Football. But he was a finesse player on a smash mouth, run-first team who couldn't throw a block if his life depended on it. He was completely out of character for our team. Plus, we never fully utilized him in the red zone, which was one of the justifications for trading for him.

 

[Seak]

12th Man Rising ranked the top worst trades in Seahawk history:

1. Percy Harvin
2. Jimmy Graham
3. Kelly Stouffer
4. Ahmad Rashad
5. Deion Branch

5 biggest trade mistakes for the Seattle Seahawks in franchise history

The Seattle Seahawks have mostly been a better-than-average franchise since the team's inception in 1976. The 1990s weren't a great time for 12s, but many of th

12thmanrising.com

The reason Adams isn't on that list is because we haven't closed the book on him yet. But if he doesn't make a significant contribution and we move away from him, I'm sure it will go down as the worst trade in history.

Ya hes over the edge at this point.
For me, he has too make some clutch plays in the playoffs to even start the conversation of it being a good trade.
I'd rather have him (when hes on the field) then not, just the price and contract was a bit much.

Honestly though, at the time I was down with the trade. I sorta get the idea that one of the first round picks was devalued cause of the covid year, but its getting down to the wire.

Clutch plays in impact games or bust! lol

 

[hawkfan68]

There are liars, damn liars, and then there are statisticians.

Graham was productive if you're into Fantasy Football. But he was a finesse player on a smash mouth, run-first team who couldn't throw a block if his life depended on it. He was completely out of character for our team. Plus, we never fully utilized him in the red zone, which was one of the justifications for trading for him.

This I agree with. While Graham was the best TE (statistically) to wear Seahawk blue, Unger was more valuable piece to the team overall. That's why that was an awful trade. Unger was the glue of the OL. Once he left the OL disappeared with him. And they are still searching for a solid center to fill that void. Maybe Brown or Olu will change that.

In my opinion, the only reason that trade was made was due to the last offensive play the Seahawks had in SB49. However, having Jimmy didn't solve their red zone woes. They actually got worse in that area.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

There are liars, damn liars, and then there are statisticians.

Graham was productive if you're into Fantasy Football. But he was a finesse player on a smash mouth, run-first team who couldn't throw a block if his life depended on it. He was completely out of character for our team. Plus, we never fully utilized him in the red zone, which was one of the justifications for trading for him.

I see Graham as kinda when Russ crossed over the Mason-Dixon line between being a team player, and a complainer about needing more weapons.

So the coaches appeased him, which IMO wasn't just about Graham, but giving up Unger? Our O-line hasn't been the same since.

That was really the downside of that trade, not even how Graham played. Which he played OK, but losing Unger was the beginning of the end of our run game and O-line dominance.

 

[Seak]

I see Graham as kinda when Russ crossed over the Mason-Dixon line between being a team player, and a complainer about needing more weapons.

So the coaches appeased him, which IMO wasn't just about Graham, but giving up Unger? Our O-line hasn't been the same since.

That was really the downside of that trade, not even how Graham played. Which he played OK, but losing Unger was the beginning of the end of our run game and O-line dominance.

I remeber being super pumped to get "Jimmy" and not really caring about losing Unger. But ya man, looking back on it.. it all started to crumble after that trade

 

[rcaido]

There are liars, damn liars, and then there are statisticians.

Graham was productive if you're into Fantasy Football. But he was a finesse player on a smash mouth, run-first team who couldn't throw a block if his life depended on it. He was completely out of character for our team. Plus, we never fully utilized him in the red zone, which was one of the justifications for trading for him.

Actually Graham in his final year, we actually utilized him in the red zone. He led the NFL w/ 10TDs in the redzone. Took Bevell 3 seasons to figure out a 6'7 Basketball player can box out and out jump most defenders.

 

[RiverDog]

Actually Graham in his final year, we actually utilized him in the red zone. He led the NFL w/ 10TDs in the redzone. Took Bevell 3 seasons to figure out a 6'7 Basketball player can box out and out jump most defenders.

You are correct, and I should have made some sort of notion. But that still represents just one season out of the three that he was with us, not nearly enough to justify what we gave up to get him.

 

[RiverDog]

I see Graham as kinda when Russ crossed over the Mason-Dixon line between being a team player, and a complainer about needing more weapons.

So the coaches appeased him, which IMO wasn't just about Graham, but giving up Unger? Our O-line hasn't been the same since.

That was really the downside of that trade, not even how Graham played. Which he played OK, but losing Unger was the beginning of the end of our run game and O-line dominance.

We also gave up a first-round pick for Graham, too.

It wasn't just the O-line, it corresponded with the demise of the LOB as well. IMO it contributed to the changing of the character of the entire team, and we haven't been the same since.

I wouldn't rate Graham as the worst trade over Harvin and potentially Adams as others are correct to point out his statistical performance. But it is definitely top 5.

 

[Palmegranite]

The discussion was about trades. Penny was a draft pick that busted, due mainly to injuries.

He mentioned Trey Lance in the draft.

 

[keasley45]

So imagine if we had traded two first round picks for Penny, AND made him the highest paid RB in the entire league.

That's where we're at with Adams. Not sure why some of you guys are so stubborn with this topic. The trade sucked, it was probably the worst trade in Hawk history.

The End.

If you trade 2 first round picks for a guy and in the process redo his contract and pay him a good sum and then he's hit by a car and is crippled and can no longer play, does that qualify as a horrible trade?

Nobody was complaining about Adams his first year here.

His second year, he was asked to play deep as the staff explored whatever version of the defense they thought would work or they could transition to. His play that year was unfairly canned as there were bigger issues at play not obvious to the casual observer. There were plays he was lambasted for that weren't his responsibility. The TD in SF on the blown coverage? Not him. Similar faults were pushed his was on big plays against two other teams - can't remember which, just that one involved Adams having to spin 180 degrees and run a wr down to save a play.

His injuries? Sure. They are unfortunate
But a torn quad? That's a VERY rare occurrence. Not something that smacks of fragility. The finger? The dude missed a minute and was back playing through it. Shoulders are unfortunate 100%, but again, it's not as though the dude had a record of being fragile.

His contract at the time was at what would be the crest for salaries at his position. It looks worse now (not that it seemed reasonable then), but the assumption was that hed be cut loose to be the player he'd been his first year here and with the Jets - a freelancing game wrecker. Had he been allowed to play the game the way he had in year one, in year two, I doubt we'd be all bothered by the play he was forced to put on the field for having to play the way he was asked to. He wasn't the only player who was out of position or lining up southpaw. Carlos Dunlap was doing weird stuff as well and was a shadow of himself for it.

Last year was just unfortunate.

I just don't see the sense in having to qualify the trade in any way. If anything, I'd give it an incomplete. Why? Because if you ask any offensive coordinator to identify THE guy their team has to account for on our D and I guarantee you Adams is either 1 or 1a in that conversation. He's just that good. So if you have a player of that caliber on your team, it can't be a bad thing.

And again, we traded picks during covid year 1. One can poopoo that as a poor excuse all you want, but when the draft itself was considered a crap shoot because of the lack of playing time players had , that has to be factored into the calculus behind the FO's gamble to get Adams.

If Adams never returns to the form he had prior to his quad, I'd call it the most unfortunate trade we've made. But worst? There'd have to have been some gross miscalculation or overestimation of a players ability for it to be considered 'worst'. Like Eddie Lacey, Carey Williams, Matt Flynn. Sure, we didnt trade for them, but with the exception of Lacey, we tossed a good bit of coin their way for little return.

I'd put this in the Nate Odoms / Sidney Rice category. Sure, we didn't trade for Odomes, but he was our prized acquisition in 94. We gave up decent salary for him, and he never played a down for us because he blew out his knees... playing basketball. Prior to that, hed missed 1 start in 7 years.

And nobody seems to give Sidney Rice any flack for being perpetually dinged and not meeting his 5 year, 40 plus mil pricetag - not chump change at the time. He was paid handsomely and never sniffed 1000 yards receiving.

And i almost forgot Jimmy Graham... if you ask me, when you take into account the ripple affect that trade had on our team, its head and shoulders worse than the Adams trade. The final word is yet to be written on Adams. Jimmy? We destroyed our O line to bring him here and for what? With Russ, we were perpetually near the bottom of the league in TE utilization. It was like buying a ferrari as your grocery getter when a toyota corolla would have sufficed. Oh, and we gave up a mack truck in the process.

 

[RiverDog]

If you trade 2 first round picks for a guy and in the process redo his contract and pay him a good sum and then he's hit by a car and is crippled and can no longer play, does that qualify as a horrible trade?

Nobody was complaining about Adams his first year here.

His second year, he was asked to play deep as the staff explored whatever version of the defense they thought would work or they could transition to. His play that year was unfairly canned as there were bigger issues at play not obvious to the casual observer. There were plays he was lambasted for that weren't his responsibility. The TD in SF on the blown coverage? Not him. Similar faults were pushed his was on big plays against two other teams - can't remember which, just that one involved Adams having to spin 180 degrees and run a wr down to save a play.

His injuries? Sure. They are unfortunate
But a torn quad? That's a VERY rare occurrence. Not something that smacks of fragility. The finger? The dude missed a minute and was back playing through it. Shoulders are unfortunate 100%, but again, it's not as though the dude had a record of being fragile.

His contract at the time was at what would be the crest for salaries at his position. It looks worse now (not that it seemed reasonable then), but the assumption was that hed be cut loose to be the player he'd been his first year here and with the Jets - a freelancing game wrecker. Had he been allowed to play the game the way he had in year one, in year two, I doubt we'd be all bothered by the play he was forced to put on the field for having to play the way he was asked to. He wasn't the only player who was out of position or lining up southpaw. Carlos Dunlap was doing weird stuff as well and was a shadow of himself for it.

Last year was just unfortunate.

I just don't see the sense in having to qualify the trade in any way. If anything, I'd give it an incomplete. Why? Because if you ask any offensive coordinator to identify THE guy their team has to account for on our D and I guarantee you Adams is either 1 or 1a in that conversation. He's just that good. So if you have a player of that caliber on your team, it can't be a bad thing.

And again, we traded picks during covid year 1. One can poopoo that as a poor excuse all you want, but when the draft itself was considered a crap shoot because of the lack of playing time players had , that has to be factored into the calculus behind the FO's gamble to get Adams.

If Adams never returns to the form he had prior to his quad, I'd call it the most unfortunate trade we've made. But worst? There'd have to have been some gross miscalculation or overestimation of a players ability for it to be considered 'worst'. Like Eddie Lacey, Carey Williams, Matt Flynn. Sure, we didnt trade for them, but with the exception of Lacey, we tossed a good bit of coin their way for little return.

I'd put this in the Nate Odoms / Sidney Rice category. Sure, we didn't trade for Odomes, but he was our prized acquisition in 94. We gave up decent salary for him, and he never played a down for us because he blew out his knees... playing basketball. Prior to that, hed missed 1 start in 7 years.

And nobody seems to give Sidney Rice any flack for being perpetually dinged and not meeting his 5 year, 40 plus mil pricetag - not chump change at the time. He was paid handsomely and never sniffed 1000 yards receiving.

That's one opinion.

Mine is a bit different. In his first year, Adams was very successful because teams were taken by surprise as safety blitzes were few and far between, but we used it far more often. Our pass rush out of our front four was historically bad, so he thrived in a vacuum as sending a safety was the only way to get pressure on the QB.

In 2021, Adams' 2nd year, teams were a lot more wary of him and started accounting for him anytime they saw him hanging around the LOS and picked him up when he blitzed. As a result, we started getting gashed through the air as you have to give up something if you're going to routinely send a safety or corner on a blitz. They have to get home, or the secondary is going to be exposed.

Consequently, we were forced to play Adams more in coverage as we were getting gashed through the air, finishing the season ranked 31st in pass defense and 28th overall, a defense he was supposed to improve.

That's why I'm pessimistic about Adams' chances of making a significant contribution. If we're going to use him in a way that highlights his strongest attribute, rushing the passer, we're going to have to give up something as he's occupying a secondary position. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe our corners will prove competent enough to compensate for Adams' being sent in on blitzes, and maybe Adams will be able to elude blockers assigned to pick him up, something he was unable to do in his last sustained action.

I hope you're right and I'm wrong, but my gut feeling is that the 'real' Jamal Adams is the most recent one we saw, ie in 2021. Our corners are too young and inexperienced to be left on islands with elite wide receivers while we try to make something out of Adams.

 

[Weadoption]

If you trade 2 first round picks for a guy and in the process redo his contract and pay him a good sum and then he's hit by a car and is crippled and can no longer play, does that qualify as a horrible trade?

Yes, final answer.

 

[keasley45]

Yes, final answer.

Cool

 

[Mick063]

Count me as one that didn't fall for him year one. I watched his cover skills. I watched his ball handling skills. His only redeeming attribute was his pursuit skills. For the sake of giving him the benefit of the doubt, let's assume he has an elite level of pursuit skill. Those kinds of guys at his size/weight are a dime a dozen. There is nothing generational about smallish linebackers chasing people down. Consider that an all-pro linebacker can reliably hold up at the point of attack, shed pulling guards, and blow-up plays at the line of scrimmage. Kam Chancellor, as a safety, could credibly pull that off (another reason he belongs in the hall of fame). Adams, as a linebacker, can't. Even if his body could hold up, he lacks the strength and girth to do it. Keep in mind that they aren't asking Adams to be a box safety. They are asking for Adams to be a linebacker, and he STILL can't play linebacker as well as Kam Chancellor, who as a designated safety, could situationally role play linebacker. Yep, Adams is a pursuit guy only. An elite chaser. He has nothing else to offer. After an initial year in review and coming to that conclusion, my thought was that he had to reliably deliver 13-17 sacks per year, over multiple years, to qualify his credentials as a third down blitz specialist. Especially when considering the size of his salary as well as what was given up for acquiring him.

This "no one was complaining his first year" argument doesn't hold water because there were vocal critics from the very beginning. His price was steep. Very steep. Heck, for an Earl Thomas caliber player that price would be steep, and Thomas had elite cover range and ball tracking instinct.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

That ridiculous contract alone not factoring in everything else should have gotten people fired almost immediatly.