100 most-sacked QB's - Russell Wilson 2nd place per year

[Seymour]

Disturbing stats to own ; but whats more disturbing is the real possibility of a serious injury if that continues. I wonder if there is any stat that shows how many of his sacks were self-inflicted ; for example...trying to extend a broken play or not throwing the ball away when he can't find an open receiver . :?:

Self inflicted is user / team variable.

It does not take into account Wilson's prime directive that other QB's aren't as forced to emphasise.

Do not force the throw or turn the ball over.

If you add 5 sacks (lets just say) for every INT / turnover then where does this stand??

Do you really think his coaches emphasize this at a significantly higher rate than the majority of offensive/head coaches around the league?

No. I don't think this. I know it.

I suggest you look further into this if you don't.

Why does Carroll like running the ball so much?

“Because it’s the best way to not screw it up,’’ he said. “It’s the best way to play the game because the games are always lost. They’re always lost — you make errors. That’s why the turnover issue is of paramount importance to us. It’s the most important thing that we taught. It’s the first thing I ever say to our team every single year we get together. Every year I start there because that’s what determines the outcome of the games. When we don’t turn the football over, our winning percentages are ridiculously high (56-12 since 2010 when winning the turnover battle) — not even being in the plus, just when we don’t turn it over.

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports...ll-so-much-shaquill-griffins-season-and-more/

 

[SoulfishHawk]

And don't you want a QB who doesn't turn the ball over or force crap that could hurt the team????

 

[Rat]

Are they including all of the playoff games each year too? Or is it just a 16 game season? Because that could skew the numbers.

Based on who is ahead of Russ, I'm guessing no.

 

[IndyHawk]

Are they including all of the playoff games each year too? Or is it just a 16 game season? Because that could skew the numbers.

Actually, since they have a "per game" category it wouldn't skew the numbers at all. At least not that one.

Also, I see where Andrew Luck is WAAAYYYYY down the list. So much for the myth about him having a crap line every year as the reason for him quitting.

Sargent? :lol:
With regards to RW..I'm not worried about him getting hurt
as he is tough but the games rules have the QB's being
pampered as they can be.

 

[Jville]

Without an actual linked source, those tables are of dubious value.

But the following linked source was posted earlier in the month. >>>>

..... the body of research is now robust (and getting more robust all the time), and it all points in the same direction-- the primary responsibility for taking sacks, hits, and even pressures falls not on pass rushers or pass blockers, but on the passer himself.

Enjoy :biggthumpup: >>> [urltargetblank]https://dynastytheory.blogspot.com/2019/08/german-taxis-playground-mulch-and.html[/urltargetblank]

 

[Palmegranite]

Super misleading list. The sack total should be divided by games played not seasons. David Carr isn't even on that list. He was totally demolished his first 5 years but then spent the last 5 as a backup. He once was sacked 76 times in a year, what a damn beating lol.

No kidding misleading. I was looking for Rob "Robosack" Johnson on the list. Not there. I checked his stats for the (only) 2 years he really played in the league, with Buffalo. 20 games over 2 seasons with 78 sacks.

Prorated, it works out to ~ 62 sacks a year. Or top O' the list.
One year he had a sack % of 21%. RW has never had a sack % over 7.3, in his worst season, sack-wise.

 

[Ad Hawk]

The lowest number of seasons played by any player on the list is 7; perhaps that's a limit of the study.

 

[xray]

Without an actual linked source, those tables are of dubious value.

But the following linked source was posted earlier in the month. >>>>

..... the body of research is now robust (and getting more robust all the time), and it all points in the same direction-- the primary responsibility for taking sacks, hits, and even pressures falls not on pass rushers or pass blockers, but on the passer himself.

Enjoy :biggthumpup: >>> [urltargetblank]https://dynastytheory.blogspot.com/2019/08/german-taxis-playground-mulch-and.html[/urltargetblank]

Thanks for that good read...taking a sack is mostly on the QB. He's the last guy with the ball ; under pressure is a given for QBs ; all QBs get pressured every play...
.

 

[John63]

Disturbing stats to own ; but whats more disturbing is the real possibility of a serious injury if that continues. I wonder if there is any stat that shows how many of his sacks were self-inflicted ; for example...trying to extend a broken play or not throwing the ball away when he can't find an open receiver . :?:

Self inflicted is user / team variable.

It does not take into account Wilson's prime directive that other QB's aren't as forced to emphasise.

Do not force the throw or turn the ball over.

If you add 5 sacks (lets just say) for every INT / turnover then where does this stand??

Do you really think his coaches emphasize this at a significantly higher rate than the majority of offensive/head coaches around the league?

Yes because PC said it

 

[John63]

Without an actual linked source, those tables are of dubious value.

But the following linked source was posted earlier in the month. >>>>

..... the body of research is now robust (and getting more robust all the time), and it all points in the same direction-- the primary responsibility for taking sacks, hits, and even pressures falls not on pass rushers or pass blockers, but on the passer himself.

Enjoy :biggthumpup: >>> [urltargetblank]https://dynastytheory.blogspot.com/2019/08/german-taxis-playground-mulch-and.html[/urltargetblank]

Thanks for that good read...taking a sack is mostly on the QB. He's the last guy with the ball ; under pressure is a given for QBs ; all QBs get pressured every play...
.

Lol mostly in the qb, hey I know you got hit in half a second but that's your fault no one blocked. Oh wait just throw it away with someone in your face and pray it does not get intercepted. Oh wait you cant your in the pocket and that is a penalty. Yeah lol mostly on the Qb, lol thanks for the laugh. So ah. What then is the line for, not their fault on a sack, there can't be when the RB gets hit in the backfield, they have the ball they should avoid the defense. Hmm what does the oline do that they can be held accountable for. Hmm thanks for the laugh

 

[DomeHawk]

So many half-truths in this thread already. Is there any way to hide a thread so I can't see it?

Of course, like almost all stats, there is more to the story. You are spot-on.

 

[Tical21]

Disturbing stats to own ; but whats more disturbing is the real possibility of a serious injury if that continues. I wonder if there is any stat that shows how many of his sacks were self-inflicted ; for example...trying to extend a broken play or not throwing the ball away when he can't find an open receiver . :?:

Self inflicted is user / team variable.

It does not take into account Wilson's prime directive that other QB's aren't as forced to emphasise.

Do not force the throw or turn the ball over.

If you add 5 sacks (lets just say) for every INT / turnover then where does this stand??

Do you really think his coaches emphasize this at a significantly higher rate than the majority of offensive/head coaches around the league?

No. I don't think this. I know it.

I suggest you look further into this if you don't.

Why does Carroll like running the ball so much?

“Because it’s the best way to not screw it up,’’ he said. “It’s the best way to play the game because the games are always lost. They’re always lost — you make errors. That’s why the turnover issue is of paramount importance to us. It’s the most important thing that we taught. It’s the first thing I ever say to our team every single year we get together. Every year I start there because that’s what determines the outcome of the games. When we don’t turn the football over, our winning percentages are ridiculously high (56-12 since 2010 when winning the turnover battle) — not even being in the plus, just when we don’t turn it over.

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports...ll-so-much-shaquill-griffins-season-and-more/

You could find this same quote almost word for word from 28 coaches in the league, and three quarters of colllege coaches too. Protect the ball and don’t make mistakes? Original Pete Carroll concept.

 

[John63]

As an FYI Wilson was the most sacked in under 2.5 seconds. Guess what the measurement for a oline to protect their qb is to be good? 2.5- 3 seconds. Add to that a coach who has said he would rather take a sack than a penalty or int combined with a QB who has a never say die attitude and there you go.

 

[IndyHawk]

As an FYI Wilson was the most sacked in under 2.5 seconds. Guess what the measurement for a oline to protect their qb is to be good? 2.5- 3 seconds. Add to that a coach who has said he would rather take a sack than a penalty or int combined with a QB who has a never say die attitude and there you go.

So he had no one blocking at all-a free for all for that to happen
in under 2.5 seconds?NFL time must be different than my phones
clock..I can see a pressure happening but a sack?A second is gone
at the hike so RW must be slow going back from under center.
I get why he is in the shotgun in most passing situations now.

 

[Jville]

As an FYI Wilson was the most sacked in under 2.5 seconds. Guess what the measurement for a oline to protect their qb is to be good? 2.5- 3 seconds. Add to that a coach who has said he would rather take a sack than a penalty or int combined with a QB who has a never say die attitude and there you go.

As has been previously noted with the OP chart, posted assertions only inform clearly when they are supported by links to the original sources that publish documented studies and accompanying data. Otherwise, threads end up generating a lot of unsupported ... he said .... she said ... posts that force the reader to filter out the noise or risk getting caught up in it.

 

[bmorepunk]

Are they including all of the playoff games each year too? Or is it just a 16 game season? Because that could skew the numbers.

Actually, since they have a "per game" category it wouldn't skew the numbers at all. At least not that one.

Also, I see where Andrew Luck is WAAAYYYYY down the list. So much for the myth about him having a crap line every year as the reason for him quitting.

The "per year" numbers in the OP aren't really meaningful.

Jon Kitna is on the list. He was in the NFL for 15 seasons according to his number (he only played in 14 of them at all). 15 seasons of 16 games is 240 total games. Kitna only started 124 of those possible games, and he only played in 141 of them. He's getting his sacks averaged out over nearly 100 additional games he didn't even play in. If we go by starts, that's almost exactly one half the games that his "per season" average is. That means he actually had much closer than twice the rate listed in that chart on a per game basis.

If you're going to do numbers like this, it has to at least be on a per game basis, not per season, unless you only include dudes who started all/nearly all of those games. Even better would be a per snap or a per pass play rate.

And if someone wants to talk about wear and tear on a QB as the metric, you would just count how many times they've been hit, which is more than sacks and would need to include run/scramble plays where they actually got tackled.

The information in the OP is not very useful at all, even for a "fun" hypothetical discussion.

 

[Ad Hawk]

Are they including all of the playoff games each year too? Or is it just a 16 game season? Because that could skew the numbers.

Actually, since they have a "per game" category it wouldn't skew the numbers at all. At least not that one.

Also, I see where Andrew Luck is WAAAYYYYY down the list. So much for the myth about him having a crap line every year as the reason for him quitting.

The "per year" numbers in the OP aren't really meaningful.

Jon Kitna is on the list. He was in the NFL for 15 seasons according to his number (he only played in 14 of them at all). 15 seasons of 16 games is 240 total games. Kitna only started 124 of those possible games, and he only played in 141 of them. He's getting his sacks averaged out over nearly 100 additional games he didn't even play in. If we go by starts, that's almost exactly one half the games that his "per season" average is. That means he actually had much closer than twice the rate listed in that chart on a per game basis.

If you're going to do numbers like this, it has to at least be on a per game basis, not per season, unless you only include dudes who started all/nearly all of those games. Even better would be a per snap or a per pass play rate.

And if someone wants to talk about wear and tear on a QB as the metric, you would just count how many times they've been hit, which is more than sacks and would need to include run/scramble plays where they actually got tackled.

The information in the OP is not very useful at all, even for a "fun" hypothetical discussion.

This is a great breakdown of why statistics must be shown in a relevant way to have any meaning at all.

Thank you for the clarity here.

 

[Seymour]

You could find this same quote almost word for word from 28 coaches in the league, and three quarters of colllege coaches too. Protect the ball and don’t make mistakes? Original Pete Carroll concept.

You made the statement, you find that or similar quotes. I'll accept just 5 and not push for the entire 28 you claim. :roll:
And no not just a coach saying "protect the ball", but clearly placing that as #1 priority like Pete has time and time again.
"It’s the most important thing that we taught".

Clearly he has made it #1 in his belief system. "It's all about the ball"



If and when you find that, next we will look at their run vs pass % and see how far each team takes it. Pete runs the ball more because he flat out admits he plays not to lose and running produces fewer turnovers.

I proved my point, now you prove yours.....

Waiting.....

:snack:

 

[John63]

As an FYI Wilson was the most sacked in under 2.5 seconds. Guess what the measurement for a oline to protect their qb is to be good? 2.5- 3 seconds. Add to that a coach who has said he would rather take a sack than a penalty or int combined with a QB who has a never say die attitude and there you go.

As has been previously noted with the OP chart, posted assertions only inform clearly when they are supported by links to the original sources that publish documented studies and accompanying data. Otherwise, threads end up generating a lot of unsupported ... he said .... she said ... posts that force the reader to filter out the noise or risk getting caught up in it.

The link to this has been posted numerous times within this forum no need to keep posting it.

 

[Seymour]

As an FYI Wilson was the most sacked in under 2.5 seconds. Guess what the measurement for a oline to protect their qb is to be good? 2.5- 3 seconds. Add to that a coach who has said he would rather take a sack than a penalty or int combined with a QB who has a never say die attitude and there you go.

As has been previously noted with the OP chart, posted assertions only inform clearly when they are supported by links to the original sources that publish documented studies and accompanying data. Otherwise, threads end up generating a lot of unsupported ... he said .... she said ... posts that force the reader to filter out the noise or risk getting caught up in it.

The link to this has been posted numerous times within this forum no need to keep posting it.

Just ignore the noise. Anyone paying attention to this subject knows that. Clearly someone is not paying close attention and is pretty unreasonable with his request for redundant links to every fact posted. :roll: