Your choice for $20 million

[TwistedHusky]

How is this even a choice?

Assuming Clowney was even an option and even WANTED to come here - the choice would be Adams and it is not close.

We had Clowney last year. How did we do in the playoffs? Did we win a game past the wild card?

Has Clowney being on the team changed the success in the playoffs at all?



I am all in for Clowney in most circumstances. He is worth the 20M but we already know even if we got him, it would be for one year. We know he wants more somewhere else. We don't know this about Adams.

He wants more money but he also wants to win. We could keep him for more than 1 year. There is much less chance at this with Clowney.

Paying Clowney means 1 year and having him test the waters again.

Paying Adams might mean the same thing. But after the Jets, he might take a top 5 safety contract AND a winning team for multiple years.

Our defense does best with great safety play. Adams is a great safety. The last time we won anything in the playoffs beyond the wildcard we had great safeties. (You win in the playoffs by shutting down the pass. Adams can help in that respect, whereas Clowney isn't even a consistent pass rusher.)

We know what we look like with Clowney in the playoffs. I'd rather fix the issue with safety.

Safety play is a linchpin for success for us. Fix the safety issues and we might do better in the playoffs.

 

[Largent80]

Hahahaha. So pay out the ass for a disgruntled, entitled safety?. Hahahaha.

While ignoring the elephant in the room?

Have you not noticed the last 10 years?

Fool of a Took.

 

[Appyhawk]

"I'd rather fix the issue with safety."
We have an issue on DL.
We have an issue on OL.
We may have an issue at CB.
But, WE DO NOT HAVE AN ISSUE at safety.

 

[Rat]

I'd give that to either for the upcoming season. I'd give it to Adams for the next five seasons though.

 

[Rat]

"I'd rather fix the issue with safety."
We have an issue on DL.
We have an issue on OL.
We may have an issue at CB.
But, WE DO NOT HAVE AN ISSUE at safety.

We've HAD an issue on the OL and just keep throwing band-aids at it, and seem to have some sort of fetish for once highly-regarded offensive linemen who were trash on their last team. I'd easily take a young, already-elite safety over signing a bunch more filler JAGs at "need positions" that aren't going to move the needle anyway. Sign the star player and let everyone around him reap the benefits of having an easier job.

 

[TwistedHusky]

We HAVE an issue at safety.

The issue is that the defense and success of our defense literally hinges on our safeties playing well.

Our defense depends on great safety play to be better than good. That is an issue.

We don't have terrible SS play, but we don't have exceptional play at that position. And our defense depends on it, at a position we have significant age, depth, & injury risk.




Sure we had and likely have issues at OL. But our play style counters it, works around it. And our players have the ability to succeed despite it.

DL is less an issue than it is not exceptional. However, our defense does not depend on exceptional DL play to be successful. I could be wrong, but our defensive line looks average, not great, not terrible.


It is better to put together an exceptional secondary than it is to put together a bit better DL. In fact, most times a team in the playoffs is going to win by exploiting what it is exceptional at, than getting better at something it is weak at. There are not many generalists alive in the divisional and conference rounds.

Also, signing Clowney improves nothing. Not signing him makes us somewhat worse on the DL. Our DL that had all these issues already had Clowney on it! Why in the world would you want to spend big to repeat the ability to be average to below average in that area?

Signing Adams makes us better. It improves us. Whereas signing Clowney?

 

[olyfan63]

You're right Bolton. It's not a difficult choice. Choosing Adams is like spending the last of your money and part of your next year's salary) buying an upgrade for a slightly worn rear tire when you've got two flats on the front.

We bought a couple of good used tires for the front. Mayowa and Irvin. Plus a good spare in Darrell Taylor, and a limited service spare in Alton Robinson. So we might already have more traction up front than we know. And, better cover on the back end will improve our pass rush.

If we can get Adams without giving up an unrealistic amount, in draft picks and contract, he would really improve the D. Clowney only costs cash.

Flip a coin, either/both would help, but it really depends on what we have to give up to get Adams.

 

[Own The West]

We are stacked at safety. We don't need another one.

Clowney is not worth $20M. He's a good player, but not $20M good.

For $20M I'll take Snacks Harrison AND Griffen.

 

[Rat]

We are stacked at safety. We don't need another one.

Clowney is not worth $20M. He's a good player, but not $20M good.

For $20M I'll take Snacks Harrison AND Griffen.

Diggs is a stud, but "stacked at safety" feels like a bit of a stretch. McDougald is league average-ish and we have seen very little of what's behind them. I feel confident in saying that we're not stacked with elite players though.

Adams is 24, while Snacks is 31 (with apparent motivation issues) and Griffen is 32. Neither seem to be drawing any interest either.

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

Neither at 20M.

Although if we're talking about achieving that defensive swagger, and closing the circle on physical play ... then I see Adams as a unique fit. Really he's the closest thing to Kam in this league. Both extremely physical players and the same kind of emotional leaders.

Positional value aside -- Adams is a difference maker. None of the safeties or anyone in the secondary really, carries that kind of value. We look to be littered with well above average talent. Players who provide good pay at a relatively bargain price. But no real alpha talent there.

The draft pick cost is prohibitive though.

 

[Appyhawk]

"Our defense depends on great safety play to be better than good. That is an issue."
You are right twisted, in that if your defense depends on safety play you are in big trouble. That means the guys in front of them aren't getting their job done, and if safeties are making the plays you're probably giving up a bunch of yardage. Sound familiar?
Fix the problems up front and your safeties are free to ball hawk. Bottom line is it take a TEAM to win. Loading up at any position at the expense of the others is a losing proposition.

 

[Tical21]

If I have to, it is Adams every time. You pay studs. You don't overpay pretty good players, regardless of position.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

I'm taking Adams all day given the choice.

I don't agree with those that argue that not only would we have to give up draft choices but a large contract extension as well. You have to do that for superstars even if you are the team that originally drafted that player.

This team needs to be in win now mode. Russ isn't getting any younger.

A top secondary helps the pass rush immensely.

Jamal Adams isn't going to make this defensive tackle lineup any better. That entire secondary is about to be wasted back there for an entire year. I don't see the point of even bothering to add Adams to it.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Adams tilts the field.

Those guys win games for you.

Personally, I consider Griffen a middle tier DL. And Snacks? Likely same but maybe less impact on W/L.

Neither very expensive DL option will matter that much in the winning a game for you. One MIGHT have a great game once per year and win you one, but Adams over a season will make a greater impact than either choice when the playoffs start - because that is what great players do.

Also, Top tier safeties cost less than good to very good DL.

There are no great field-tilting options available at DL for the Seahawks. Clowney is the only one, but he won't want to stay here. There is a great field-tilting safety available, and as a box safety, he can even be another resource in helping to run down the opposing running QBs.

It is ALWAYS better to pay for the GREAT players than the good or even very good. Especially because those guys tend to shine in the playoffs and often are the difference in the game.

 

[Appyhawk]

"Also, Top tier safeties cost less than good to very good DL."

Your guy doesn't intend to.

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

Seattle was horrible in their run defense last year.

Clowney is better known as a run stopper than a pass rusher and still Seattle’s run defense was lacking.

Adams is regarded as a premier top 2 at his position.

Adams would be the better choice as he can do more for the defense.

He’s a plug and play to be safety, either up top or in the box and can provide an option at nickel on certain packages.

Although the pass rush for Seattle is an issue, you cannot overlook other areas that are also an issue.

Seattle has not played Cover-1 and Cover-3 well since losing a good nickel corner and Adams can provide help with that in order for Seattle to be able to play the defense that Carroll would prefer to play.

Adams would be the better option at this point and he’s younger, as well.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

At what cost though? Massive contract AND giving up a high draft pick or two.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Would you trade Collier or Penny for Adams?

Because that is what we would lose for our high draft pick.

Those are the kinds of players we get with our firsts.

I am biased because I would trade Brooks AND Collier for Adams...but still.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

And where would they get the cap money? In addition to having to give up a 1, if not more?
I would love to have him as a Hawk. Just doesn't seem realistic at all. Just an opinion....

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

At this point, if the Jets want a cheap running back, so they can cut ties with Bell, you have to think about giving up Penny (when he's healthy).

Carson will be gone next year and you can draft another running back in the mid-later rounds in the next drafts.

It makes total sense.

The Seahawks aren't gonna extend Carson anyways and you can replace a running back with a later round running back and in return you get an elite DEFENSIVE PLAYER.

Adams is ALL-PRO.

You can get an ALL-PRO talent at the young age of 24 and give up next to nothing in Penny (if the Jets take the bait).

You can pay Adams since you won't have anyone else you need to pay other than Wilson.

Wagner will be replaced with Brooks anyways in the next few years, so you won't have to pay Wagner.

The next player you would need to pay is Metcalf, which you don't need to pay for another 3 years.

The pass rush will absolutely need to be HOMEGROWN talent and this will be heavily relied on the ability of coaching and talent evaluation.

You can do more with Adams.