Why you Run the ball ~1:1 vs the Pass

ivotuk

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Because otherwise you give TOP to the other team and wear you defense (by choice).

You run the ball to keep the other team from blitzing time after time after time.
You run the ball to protect your QB
You run the ball to protect your Offensive Linemen. Get them going before you put them on an island with a far superior athlete.

September 19, 2021 Titans @ Seahawks

The Seahawks led almost all game, yet continued to throw the ball. Henry had 34 rushing attempts with very little success (3.6ypc), but in the 4th he broke one for a 60 yard TD. Inside of 2 minutes, they still ran the ball, 4 times, including the game tying TD. Then they won in OT. Why did this happen. Because Vrabel stuck with the run and wore the defense out!

There is no better example of "You can't win the game in the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd quarter, but you can win it in the 4th/OT!" (By wearing a defense down. Here are Derrick Henry's rushes from that game:

1st Half:
D.Henry 1 yard, -2 yards, 2 yards, 7 yards, 1 yard, -2 yards, 2 yards, 7 yards, no gain, 1 yard, 4 yards, 3 yards, 2 yards, 4 yards, 8 yards, 4 yards, 1 yard

3rd Quarter:
D.Henry 11 yards, 3 yards, 4 yards, -2 yards, 9 Yd TD Run

D.Henry 2 yards, 6 yards, 7 yards, no gain

4th Quarter:
(12:17 - 4th) Derrick Henry 60 Yard TD Run

(1:54 - 4th) Two-Minute Warning
D.Henry 8 yards, 4 yards, 5 yards, (0:29 - 4th) 1 Yard TD Rush


Titans: 212yds on 40 rush attempts, and Tannehill had 40 pass attempts. 1 to 1.

Seahawks: 77yds on 18 attempts 4.3ypc, while RW had 31 pass attempts just under 2 to 1
TOP: 42:33 to 22:42 (OT)

 

TwistedHusky

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Disagree.

You win by leaning into your strengths.
If you run the ball 1:1 and you have an avg rush offense and above avg pass - you are squandering possessions. Passing plays are worth 3x more than run plays anyway.
Admittedly running the ball is easier on your line (and preferred by most OL), it does wear down defenses, and rest yours.

But winning football is not about balance, it is above winning matchups. If your strength is passing, your ratio should show that. If your strength is rushing, that should be the focus. You still have to use weaknesses enough to keep defenses honest, but you squander possessions if you lean out of your strengths.
(Unless the opponent has a key weakness where leaning away makes sense)

Rigidly adhering to numbers with no consideration into where you can leverage strengths or take advantage of weaknesses makes no sense. This team should at a minimum have a 1.5:1 ration on pass to run. And only that low because Geno regressed. 1:1 would be a recipe for failure. We don't have the RB for it.
 

QWERTY

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Using Henry is a bad example. Running the ball with King Henry, makes the D gas a lot, and he punishes them.

Seahawks have K9 and Char


While running the ball, teams will stack the box, and try to stop the run. Also Seahawks Guards are average or below average, they don't do well. When was the last time we had an all-pro Guard? Hutch?

Throwing the ball, helps the running game, as they don't need to stack the box. The 49ers were able to contend DK and Lockett 1v1, if so the safety can be in the middle, and that is why the run game didn't work.

Also Seahawks don't even use screens in their playbook, and play action as very limited.
 

TwistedHusky

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One BIG BIG missing factor to consider.

NFL rules favor passing offenses. If you lean away from the pass, you are leaning away from massive advantages the NFL bakes into the game to encourage scoring and give your offense over the defense.
3rd and 40? One 5 yd 'illegal contact' penalty suddenly turns that into a 1st down.
Meanwhile, a 'phantom hold' on a run play suddenly makes it 2nd and 17 or 1st and 20. Good luck running out of that.

When you run the ball, you are running upstream. Disregarding every advantage over the defense the NFL has graciously laid out for your offense.
When you pass the ball, the defense not only has to beat your players but the refs as well. And all ties and most judgment calls seem to favor the offense.
 
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Xxx

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Disagree.

You win by leaning into your strengths.
If you run the ball 1:1 and you have an avg rush offense and above avg pass - you are squandering possessions. Passing plays are worth 3x more than run plays anyway.
Admittedly running the ball is easier on your line (and preferred by most OL), it does wear down defenses, and rest yours.

But winning football is not about balance, it is above winning matchups. If your strength is passing, your ratio should show that. If your strength is rushing, that should be the focus. You still have to use weaknesses enough to keep defenses honest, but you squander possessions if you lean out of your strengths.
(Unless the opponent has a key weakness where leaning away makes sense)

Rigidly adhering to numbers with no consideration into where you can leverage strengths or take advantage of weaknesses makes no sense. This team should at a minimum have a 1.5:1 ration on pass to run. And only that low because Geno regressed. 1:1 would be a recipe for failure. We don't have the RB for it.
Pete has said what I think you’re saying. Being balanced doesn’t just mean 50/50 runs and passes.

Honestly I think this team and prior Pete teams just have no quick short passing game. I used to actually think Russ just couldn’t see right away cause of his height so he had to move into a lane which just took away the quickness of the play, but what’s Geno’s excuse then… Pete… that’s his excuse.

lol! I really believed we had Joey hunt at center so Russ could see. But Joey hunt was a weeble that wobbled and did fall down…
 

Ozzy

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Pete has said what I think you’re saying. Being balanced doesn’t just mean 50/50 runs and passes.

Honestly I think this team and prior Pete teams just have no quick short passing game. I used to actually think Russ just couldn’t see right away cause of his height so he had to move into a lane which just took away the quickness of the play, but what’s Geno’s excuse then… Pete… that’s his excuse.

lol! I really believed we had Joey hunt at center so Russ could see. But Joey hunt was a weeble that wobbled and did fall down…
You make a point that for some strange reason people ignore. It was a major point fans on here and everywhere said “we will finally see stuff over the middle of the field” and it was all Wilson’s fault because of his height. Those same people always ignore this point when it’s asked why doesn’t Geno do it now? We know he can. I believe it’s Pete as he’s talked about where he likes to pass.
 

GemCity

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You make a point that for some strange reason people ignore. It was a major point fans on here and everywhere said “we will finally see stuff over the middle of the field” and it was all Wilson’s fault because of his height. Those same people always ignore this point when it’s asked why doesn’t Geno do it now? We know he can. I believe it’s Pete as he’s talked about where he likes to pass.
Guilty.

I honestly thought it was Russ.
 

strohmin

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Because otherwise you give TOP to the other team and wear you defense (by choice).

You run the ball to keep the other team from blitzing time after time after time.
You run the ball to protect your QB
You run the ball to protect your Offensive Linemen. Get them going before you put them on an island with a far superior athlete.

September 19, 2021 Titans @ Seahawks

The Seahawks led almost all game, yet continued to throw the ball. Henry had 34 rushing attempts with very little success (3.6ypc), but in the 4th he broke one for a 60 yard TD. Inside of 2 minutes, they still ran the ball, 4 times, including the game tying TD. Then they won in OT. Why did this happen. Because Vrabel stuck with the run and wore the defense out!

There is no better example of "You can't win the game in the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd quarter, but you can win it in the 4th/OT!" (By wearing a defense down. Here are Derrick Henry's rushes from that game:

1st Half:
D.Henry 1 yard, -2 yards, 2 yards, 7 yards, 1 yard, -2 yards, 2 yards, 7 yards, no gain, 1 yard, 4 yards, 3 yards, 2 yards, 4 yards, 8 yards, 4 yards, 1 yard

3rd Quarter:
D.Henry 11 yards, 3 yards, 4 yards, -2 yards, 9 Yd TD Run

D.Henry 2 yards, 6 yards, 7 yards, no gain

4th Quarter:
(12:17 - 4th) Derrick Henry 60 Yard TD Run

(1:54 - 4th) Two-Minute Warning
D.Henry 8 yards, 4 yards, 5 yards, (0:29 - 4th) 1 Yard TD Rush


Titans: 212yds on 40 rush attempts, and Tannehill had 40 pass attempts. 1 to 1.

Seahawks: 77yds on 18 attempts 4.3ypc, while RW had 31 pass attempts just under 2 to 1
TOP: 42:33 to 22:42 (OT)

Lol you are using Derrick Henry as the example. Sorry, but the Seahawks do not have anyone near that level of RB play.
 
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strohmin

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You make a point that for some strange reason people ignore. It was a major point fans on here and everywhere said “we will finally see stuff over the middle of the field” and it was all Wilson’s fault because of his height. Those same people always ignore this point when it’s asked why doesn’t Geno do it now? We know he can. I believe it’s Pete as he’s talked about where he likes to pass.
Yup, the fact that Geno is basically turning into what we thought was Russell Wilson doing his own thing is pretty damning on Pete. However, I still believe Russell was not going to turn back into what he is doing now in Seattle. He needed to be traded but I think Pete needs to go as well.
 

Dvl Dug

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My reasons for running the football?

1 - Because the offense can then pull guards, sometimes a tackle, or the center, and combine that with the tight end to gain a numerical advantage of blockers to one side of the field.

2 - Eat up time and manage the clock better, which keeps the defense rested, off the field, and unexposed. To put that another way, the less time a defense spends on the field, the less time the opposition has to find a weakness in your defense.

3 - Keep the oppositions defense on the field, wear them out, and find the weaknesses in their armor.

Gotta ask yourself, do you like traditional football, or just pass & catch, with the passers having every rule advantage.
My preference leans more towards tradition.
 

Xxx

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One BIG BIG missing factor to consider.

NFL rules favor passing offenses. If you lean away from the pass, you are leaning away from massive advantages the NFL bakes into the game to encourage scoring and give your offense over the defense.
3rd and 40? One 5 yd 'illegal contact' penalty suddenly turns that into a 1st down.
Meanwhile, a 'phantom hold' on a run play suddenly makes it 2nd and 17 or 1st and 20. Good luck running out of that.

When you run the ball, you are running upstream. Disregarding every advantage over the defense the NFL has graciously laid out for your offense.
When you pass the ball, the defense not only has to beat your players but the refs as well. And all ties and most judgment calls seem to favor the offense.
Right, half those bombs are counting on PI more than the catch
 

Shane Falco

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Also Seahawks Guards are average or below average, they don't do well. When was the last time we had an all-pro Guard? Hutch?

It really sucks that Pete doesn't value IOL. The entire time he's been here they've drafted Pocic in the 2nd and that's it for IOL in the first two rounds. That would be ok except for the fact that they never sign anyone significant either.
 

Sgt. Largent

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Just saying "run the ball = success" is a very simplistic way of looking at a very complex equation.

Yes, running the ball is important, or more specifically the run/pass balance and keeping the defense guessing/wearing them down part of running the ball is important. But it's how you run the ball, it's are you having success early in downs and 1st/2nd quarters running the ball?

Sure the Hawks have shown flashes of success early in games running the ball. Which has led to looking great in 1st quarters.

But then the combo of teams making good adjustments to slow down Walker and the run game + the Hawks going into shooting themselves in the foot with stupid penalties creating 2nd and 3rd and longs removing the run from this equation over and over.
 
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