Ultimately threads like this will probably always exist here. Several posters can not or will not acknowledge the vast changes that Carroll made to the team.
The Seattle Seahawks had 5,465 pass attempts between the 2012 and 2022 seasons.
www.statmuse.com
Our run pass ratio took a dramatic turn in 2016. Only one season, did it go back to us being a run first team. I have posted several times over the years how we have been in the lower ten of rushing attempts for several years if you take Wilson's called passing attempts that he failed to see a receiver and turned it into a rushing attempt. I have posted several times over the years the times we were actually run run pass in the past seveal years to debunk the claim. It gets ignored as the claim comes up again. It is funny looking at the stat in the link above, because Wilson was already cooking. He and a bunch of the posters here hated the 2018 Cowboys game (I did too, relax) and could not let it go.
As far as the defense being the same, in 2022 we changed the defense completely. That change screwed the team over and was what cost Carroll his job. We had one losing season, with no playoff wins. Calling it to where we wouldn't have had to suffer a couple of seasons of winning football when our identity and philosophy changed with growing pains is weird. We would probably have gone through the same growing pains with a new head coach. I get wanting to rip the band aid off. I wanted Carroll fired when he hired Hurtt. I foresaw what would happen, but to sit here and go, we stayed the same is simply wrong.
This. 10000%
1. From 2016 to 2020, we went 10 wins, then 9, 10, 11, and 12 in 2020. That in no way, shape or form is a reason for any HC to be fired. Its year over year improvement to the tune of having a top 10 cumulative record over that span in the league (maybe top 5?). The 9 win season came when we had literally no viable running backs due to injury.
There was a shift in 21 that was in hindsight (my speculation) rooted in a mandate from 'above' that things needed to be different. It may even have come the season before, on the heels of the Adam's acquisition. But that shift i'm pretty sure was a result of John and Jody growing tired of the Wilson issue (which became the Wilson saga), and wary of Pete's specific style of coaching - too soft on execution, too relyant on coordinators carrying the burden for mandating accountabiity and 'leading' the team... Pete was too detached. And you can go as far back as KJ's early years and a story he told when asked about what he thought Pete's shortcoming were - he recounted a time in training camp when Norton was still LB's coach where he'd made an error on a play. He watched as Pete consulted with Norton and told him (removed from KJ) what he wanted KJ to correct, and relied on Ken to tell him. KJ expressed that he thought that Pete's weakness was never being direct enough and exerting his own authority. I think thats just a first hand account of a leadership style Pete believed in to a fault. And one that ultimately undid him.
2. How things went down makes more sense if you accept the reality that Pete was a facilitator type of leader and less a dictatorial one. Pete, from the outset, brought in guys to grow them and allow them room to flourish within a system, while he stood back and nourished the overall culture. As such, the team's success was in large part (too large) predicated on the ability of his coordinators. His standoffish approach was great in the sense that it allowed maximum latitude for leaders and players to find their unique way of leading / playing. But if the person chosen wasnt up to the task, Pete didnt always pull the trigger fast enough to make a change. Jeremy Bates and Chris Richard were two of the few examples where he saw that the guys werent up to task and invited them to find other future paths outside of Seattle. Holding onto guys like Norton, Cable... that was Pete relying on the seasoned veteran coach to provide the discipline he didnt give himself, more than it was a belief that those guys were necessarily the best candidates or smartest football minds to lead their respective groups.
The folks in the front office knew how Pete operated- that he stood back and 'coordinated' and so provided him the latitude to change the guard, so to speak.
3. The other piece was Wilson. John was ready to move on well before Wilson was traded. I think he saw pretty clearly the limitations that would always exist if Wilson stayed and didnt want be restricted by them. Pete might have seen it, but his undying belief in one's ability to overcome compelled him to stay the course. That difference between the two leaders was made pretty obvious in the post trade presser the two men gave when Wilson left. John was ready to move on and obviously had zero regret. Pete's demeanor was one that expressed obvious regret. John likely granted Pete leeway because he saw how much working around Wilson limited the team, and thought that post Wilson, Pete could get his mojo back and bring in the personalities that COULDNT flourish with Wilson being catered to at the most imprtant position on the field - you need look no firther than the fiasco in Denver and on field outbursts of frustration by teammates at Wilson's poor play. Pete was sculpting a soft team that WOULDNT rebel against Wilson. John saw that neutering of the team and the absense of the 'tough love' that sharpened the LOB and which ultimately leads to accountability in keeping Wison as a mitigating factor in the team's struggles.
So, John gave Wilson his money in 2019 but then also tightened the leash on things (again, my speculation, but i think its correct). A personality like Adam's being brought in (a guy who was completely counter culture to the quiet, lead by example. 'team' guy Pete preferred) at great expense, in my opinion was the beginning of the shift from the way Pete wanted his lockerrom and the aggressive, 'Alpha', uber athlete, high octane player John has gone on record as saying the team had been missing. John was no longer willing to grow a bunch of soft guys for the sake of Wilson... or Pete, if it was found that Pete couldnt do what was necessary to right the ship.
Pete's style was the problem, but one that he was given three season's to REALLY correct, post mandate / Wilson trade. John wanted a different QB, a different attitude, and a more felxible approach. That was (i believe) made clear in 2019 / 2020 and supported by the fact that in 2019 is when the wheels cmae off the Wilson bus when his team discovered the depths of which John was willing to entertain trading Wilson. Adams being brought in was another signal. Wilson being ultimately traded, again, proof. But before that, the bottom line success of the team (or its failures) could be reasonable set at his coordnators feet and Pete's softness toward them and Wilson. It stood to reason that if Pete could just harden a bit and get his edge back, things could be better.
The final straw? When it became obvious last year that Pete had lost his desire to bring in the 'right' guys to run things. Hurtt was a failure and allowed to fail. Waldron, the same. And Pete, judging by his post 'retirement' presser, was more concerned about his guys and thier families having to find other pastures than he was the team's W/L record.
Pete softened with age from a point where his 'Hard' was only ever 'just' good enough to hold a group like the LOB together. How quickly that group, plus ADB and Lynch were disbanded points to just how little Pete wanted to be the guy responsible for getting in guy's faces and leading them 1 on 1.
Like most situations in leadership, leadership styles can become outdated. The thing with Pete is that his approach WAS rooted in a method that should have allowed for perpetual success. ultimately, the team seeing the degree of success it did under his leadership proves that. His 'Win Forever' book is a testament to exactly how good he is at understanding what leadership, growth and winning require. But ultimately, his own unique personality and unwillingness to engage and make the tough calls with coaches and players was his achilles heal. But the proof of his base approach to things afforded him a chance to 'fix' his errors. He was just too old and too leaniant at 73 to do it.
When you hear John talk about maintaining the culture in Seattle, its Pete's core philosophy he's talking about. Growing leaders, enabling coaches, creating a learning organization, always growing... THAT part is right. How Pete went about it in the end was no longer viable and THAT is why he was let go when he was. There was enough good still happening for us to win 12 games in 2020 - a season that SHOULD have seen us go much further than we did, were it not for the fatal limitation that John ultimately traded away in 2021. The culture, otherwise, and play on D was good enough up to that point to make a run. 2021 on was Pete's prove it or move on period. And John chose to move on.
John gave Pete a chance to succeed without Russ and with a new set of guys around him. In 2 years, he failed. He was let go.
