Why it took so long to make a coaching change?

[BASF]

I like the post. I’m not sure Pete was our best coach… he did have the most power which, to answer your question, I think took it so long. I think he landed on a couple home runs (Kam and Sherm, as examples) but I think he got overwhelmed when his pom poms didn’t rally the lockerroom around the time you mention. We suffered for a couple years I don’t think we would have had to if Paul was still here. Kudos to Jody for finally pulling the plug and starting over. I’m excited to watch JS with the reigns.

As I’m sure many posts will show, I was never a Pete guy but, to be fair, his results carried us to for a while. Not sure he was the best coach ever, I just don’t feel like arguing about it.

I love the new energy, view points, and attitude. We needed it.

Are you suggesting that he would have been fired by Paul Allen after one 7-9 season after having posted 12, 11 and 10 wins the previous three seasons? Our win total went up three consecutive seasons. His star QB decided to split the locker room by refusing to run the new OCs offense in 21 and we struggle. That would have had Paul Allen fire him?

 

[Wsumatt1982]

Pete’s case of gum got delivered to Jodi’s office by mistake and she said enough is enough.

I think it was just loyalty and seeing the talent and underachieving. We finished 9-8 back to back years. Pete wasn’t getting any younger and with a pretty good coaching class it was just time

 

[Torc]

Pete wasn't fired sooner because he'd only missed the playoffs four times in his tenure. Good grief, we're spoiled as Seahawk fans that anyone would think he should be fired sooner. I disagree that Paul would likely have fired him sooner, but I believe Paul would have held him more accountable because that was his MO: hire experts and then require results. I think Paul would have expected Pete to make some changes rather than letting him go sooner than Jody did.

 

[JayhawkMike]

He turned into Marty Shottenheimer with less regular season success.

Does this sound familiar?

During his head coaching tenure, Schottenheimer's coaching strategy became known as Martyball. It emphasized a strong running game, a passing game that limited turnovers, and an aggressive defense. A conservative style, it was criticized for its blandness and it prevented Schottenheimer from winning big games, because he consistently played not to lose.

 

[12AngryHawks]

He turned into Marty Shottenheimer with less regular season success.

Does this sound familiar?

During his head coaching tenure, Schottenheimer's coaching strategy became known as Martyball. It emphasized a strong running game, a passing game that limited turnovers, and an aggressive defense. A conservative style, it was criticized for its blandness and it prevented Schottenheimer from winning big games, because he consistently played not to lose.

Geesh, that describes PC to a T.

 

[PateratoWilson]

Are you suggesting that he would have been fired by Paul Allen after one 7-9 season after having posted 12, 11 and 10 wins the previous three seasons? Our win total went up three consecutive seasons. His star QB decided to split the locker room by refusing to run the new OCs offense in 21 and we struggle. That would have had Paul Allen fire him?

No, I don’t think I suggested that at all. And, like I said, I don’t feel like arguing it, but I’ll take your bait. I thought Holmgren was awesome for us and I’ll leave it at that.

In fact, if you read my actual post, I pay accolades to what Pete did for us over the course of his tenure. I’m not interested in listening to hypotheticals or what might have been if blah blah blah…. Pete and his schtick needed to go… I understand the totals and shit like that… again I appreciate what he did. But, come on man, you can only fall in love so long at the Sadie Hawkins dance. At some point, you gotta go. I don’t think Pete would’ve been here as long as he was if Paul was around as he didn’t appear to deal with stagnant well and I think Pete survived because Paul died. If Pete is/was such a hot commodity… what happened this off season with all these coaching jobs? I digress…

 

[Maelstrom787]

Pete Carroll was undoubtedly the best coach that the Seahawks ever had. The run of consistency that the Hawks displayed during his tenure was incredible. With this said, it was pretty evident from around 2016 on that things were starting to disintegrate. Many of us on this board were calling into question his coaching decisions on and off the field with both play and personnel. I’m just curious why you think it took the organization so long to make a change or at least do something to change the direction of the team?

Because we were still one of the most consistently successful teams in the league from 2016 onwards, and "disintegrate" is a very weird way to describe being a near lock for winning seasons and contention.

2019 specifically was a near-NFCCG appearance with a pretty banged up roster. Not like we were never in contention.

This fanbase is spoiled, just like that of the Ravens fanbase which wants John Harbaugh fired. Consistent winning absolutely destroys the ability of any fanbase to realistically manage their expectations, and Seattle was such a juggernaut in the early-2010s that the type of consistent winning other fanbases dream of was made to feel like torturous purgatory to us.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Geesh, that describes PC to a T.

Hard disagree, given that we haven't been a predominant rushing team for a while, and we were a lot more successful the last times we WERE running the offense on the ground.

Definitely some Schottenheimer influence, but Peteball ain't Martyball, and Peteball ain't what many here think it is.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Jody believed his BS until reality couldn't be ignored. How else can you explain the 5 year extension he got in 2020?

How can you explain it?

How about with 10+ win seasons in 8 of the last 9 years?

I've heard of looking back with rose-tinted goggles, but never shit-tinted ones.

Heard it here first, folks. Winning 10+ games for 8 out of 9 seasons, with the only other season being a 9 win year, is now a losing resume that gets ya fired at the highest level. Enjoy never being happy ever again, I guess.

 

[seabowl]

I will say around 2020 I knew either Pete or Russ at some point needed to go. I was absolutely on the Pete needing to go side as I thought he was the ultimate problem. Little did I know now that they were both the problem.

 

[BASF]

Ultimately threads like this will probably always exist here. Several posters can not or will not acknowledge the vast changes that Carroll made to the team.

Seahawks Pass To Run Ratio 2012 To 2022 | StatMuse

The Seattle Seahawks had 5,465 pass attempts between the 2012 and 2022 seasons.

www.statmuse.com

Our run pass ratio took a dramatic turn in 2016. Only one season, did it go back to us being a run first team. I have posted several times over the years how we have been in the lower ten of rushing attempts for several years if you take Wilson's called passing attempts that he failed to see a receiver and turned it into a rushing attempt. I have posted several times over the years the times we were actually run run pass in the past seveal years to debunk the claim. It gets ignored as the claim comes up again. It is funny looking at the stat in the link above, because Wilson was already cooking. He and a bunch of the posters here hated the 2018 Cowboys game (I did too, relax) and could not let it go.

As far as the defense being the same, in 2022 we changed the defense completely. That change screwed the team over and was what cost Carroll his job. We had one losing season, with no playoff wins. Calling it to where we wouldn't have had to suffer a couple of seasons of winning football when our identity and philosophy changed with growing pains is weird. We would probably have gone through the same growing pains with a new head coach. I get wanting to rip the band aid off. I wanted Carroll fired when he hired Hurtt. I foresaw what would happen, but to sit here and go, we stayed the same is simply wrong.

 

[morgulon1]

He had a great roster Jimmy Johnson, called it perfectly.

Pete had the advantage of having seen kids from HS to College. He knew their strengths and weaknesses. His first few years he had an insiders "feel" for players. Advantage Pete, of course along with Schneider assessing well.

Without his players, Pete would have been run off to retirement or USC.

He got to the point where he thought it was HIM, and not a team effort. The attempt to catch the "lightning in a bottle" with FA Safeties was all the proof that was needed. He was reaching, and doing it in the manner of someone who was grasping on a life raft as he knows he is drowning.

Great post. I agree .

Once the dynamic team of 2013 started getting older , Injured , contract disputes
And of course ,that one game in Arizona against TB12 , it was evident PC wasnt getting anywhere near another SB.

 

[pittpnthrs]

How can you explain it?

How about with 10+ win seasons in 8 of the last 9 years?

I've heard of looking back with rose-tinted goggles, but never shit-tinted ones.

Heard it here first, folks. Winning 10+ games for 8 out of 9 seasons, with the only other season being a 9 win year, is now a losing resume that gets ya fired at the highest level. Enjoy never being happy ever again, I guess.

Regular season wins don’t cut it.

It wasn’t hard to see that the team was never going to do anything again with Pete as the coach, but I guess it takes some people longer than others.

 

[DeSeahawk]

How can you explain it?

How about with 10+ win seasons in 8 of the last 9 years?

I've heard of looking back with rose-tinted goggles, but never shit-tinted ones.

Heard it here first, folks. Winning 10+ games for 8 out of 9 seasons, with the only other season being a 9 win year, is now a losing resume that gets ya fired at the highest level. Enjoy never being happy ever again, I guess.

Shit tinted goggles. Genius. I'm stealing that and will use it tomorrow in the morning meeting at work. Thank you !

 

[DeSeahawk]

I'm kinda surprised he didnt seem to get any grief from the top about the horrific trades for that " one missing piece" . Between those and early playoff exits, maybe it should have happened sooner.

I will admit to being spoiled by the consistent regular season success and maybe having unrealistic expectations at times, but I won't apologize. I dont think it's too much to expect a defensive minded coach to field an at least average defense. Personally, that was my main issue with Pete the last 5 or 6 seasons. I probably would have kept Pete too long as well, believing that side of the ball would finally click.

 

[CouchLogic]

Off season sucks so hard, lol.

 

[pittpnthrs]

I think it became too apparent to the front office that no matter who Pete hired as his coordinators, the result was going to be the same. No matter who was calling plays, everything just seemed the same. Season after season, same thing. And honestly, it became boring to watch! If it looked like that to fans, imagine how easy that was for other teams to game plan against. Especially younger minded coaches than Pete whom seem to have gotten his number and Pete didn't change his ways to combat that.

Perfectly said. No matter how things changed, they always looked the same.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Are you suggesting that he would have been fired by Paul Allen after one 7-9 season after having posted 12, 11 and 10 wins the previous three seasons? Our win total went up three consecutive seasons. His star QB decided to split the locker room by refusing to run the new OCs offense in 21 and we struggle. That would have had Paul Allen fire him?

I don't believe for a second that Wilson refused to run Waldrons offense. I do believe he saw Waldron being told to mold his schemes to fit Pete's and Wilson rebelled against that. To each thier own.

 

[JayhawkMike]

I don't believe for a second that Wilson refused to run Waldrons offense. I do believe he saw Waldron being told to mold his schemes to fit Pete's and Wilson rebelled against that. To each thier own.

which Shottenheimer refused to do? He was certainly the canary in the coal mine. I hated the hire at first but liked it later

 

[pittpnthrs]

Hard disagree, given that we haven't been a predominant rushing team for a while, and we were a lot more successful the last times we WERE running the offense on the ground.

Definitely some Schottenheimer influence, but Peteball ain't Martyball, and Peteball ain't what many here think it is.

I have to hard disagree with this though. They weren't a predominant rushing team for awhile because they couldn't. The Oline stunk for years and the running back stable has been nothing but a revolving carousel with Rawls, Carson, Penny, etc,,, due to injuries and whatever else. Unfortunately, when you can't run the ball, what do you have left? Even when Pete relented with the whole 'Let Russ Cook' thing because it was obvious that was his best chance of success, he didn't have the patience to allow Russ to work himself out of short stents of slumps. Maybe Russ could have figured that stuff out, but he never had the liberty to do so because God forbid he threw a pick or two.

The thing though is we all saw examples of terrible situational decisions where there were rushing attempts that had poor chances of success. That was the most frustrating part.