Why do people go so crazy for the Seahawks?

[AirStrike]

 

[irocdave]

Great conversation going on here, but I was having a hard time with what the subject actually matter was. . .

That is, of course, until I capitalized the proper name "Seahawks". What the hell is a seahawk?

If you people want to talk about people, teams of people, or want to ask something of us or present something to us to be taken seriously AT ALL, you will take the millisecond it takes to use capital letters when they are required. This extends from the name of the organization to every person that works for them.

I'm not sure who many of you are, or where you came from, but Seahawks.NET is NOT a drunken text message receptacle. It is the finest Seahawks message board on the planet and has the finest membership of any website anywhere. We deserve to be surrounded by those who give a shit just like we do.

While you are here, you will treat our web space and the team we love with the highest level of respect at all times. That means typing your thoughts by capitalizing the first letter of ALL proper names. Otherwise, your drivel is of less use to us than used TP.

Carry on.

What he said.

Agreed, except for the drunken part.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

No, I can't take this guy for anything but a troll. I have friends that have autism or aspergers. Some have both and they love professional sports and football just like most people.

 

[irocdave]

Thanks to all who have given informative responses.

Here are responses to some of the questions for me,

I do understand the game of football, I watch it on occasion, I play the video game versions, I've played flag football, and would play real football if I had a chance. So I do understand the game, and can enjoy it similar to a good game of chess, or any other game. For me though, I have no favorite team, they are all professionals on similar ground and I could enjoy it no matter who wins. Also the game has been played for many years, and will be played for many more years, so for me I see no importance on any particular game. I could watch a new game, or one from 10 years ago, and it would be equal for me.

Its true, I think logically about almost everything, and base little off emotion. So maybe that is part of it. I don't have any typical bad habits like drinking, gambling, eating unhealthy food, failing to exercise, etc (other illogical things that baffle me about people) I do get excited about things, but they are more about things that actually affect me, like if I win a game myself, or do something thrilling, or something else that affects me. I can get a little excited about someone else's achievement, like an exceptional touchdown pass, but for me it is still more of an appreciation of the technical achievement of the maneuver and low odds of it happening, and I can appreciate the achievement while remaining calm, and perhaps giving a well mannered "nice job". I just don't understand people shouting their lungs out every chance they get for hours.

I have been told I have Aspergers as well. I've been in denial about this for over 15 years until just recently I'm starting to realize it is likely true.

I did go to a seahawks game once, someone gave me free tickets. It was a horrible experience for me, being in the overexcited swarm which was constantly yelling their lungs out, and doing other maniacal things even when nothing was happening. My ears were ringing for a long time. There was no way I could enjoy the game among the madness. I left 1/4 of the way through.

So I have some more questions.

1) It seems one of the biggest things people are pointing out as the appeal is the social aspect, of using it as the most popular tool to form social connection with others, and feeling like they are a part of something big. So in a theoretical situation, what if one day football became something which was looked down upon by the overwhelming majority of the population? If for some reason most people decided it was immoral and obscene. In this case would you, or do you think most fans, would continue wearing the clothes constantly, painting their cars/houses/faces, yelling and talking about it at all times, and in general revolving their lives around it? Would they move on to the next most popular and accepted social bonding conduit, and become a fan of that with equal passion as what they currently have for the seahawks?

2) Why does it seem so important to watch the game live. I've seen family members seclude themselves from their family at gatherings to watch the game on their phone. I was once on vacation in a tropical paradise, but a guy chose to not partake in the activities but listen to the radio in a parking lot instead. Also not only this, but they dress up in seahawks gear to watch/listen by themselves. I've seen many other things like those examples, and the one thing in common, they all could have just watched the game a couple hours later at their convenience. So why not do that?

3) I still can't quite understand why the excitement level is so over the top. Personally I can like things and get excited, but am still quite calm and collected. It seems with seahawks people yell at their tv's, jump up and down, throw things, shout out to the whole neighborhood, and write 12 on everything possible. It seems often a group will behave in a maniacal fashion and another group will try and compulsively one up their level of insanity and wild behavior. I just can't imagine any logical reason for excitement levels to rise this high over anything. And then real things that truly affect and make a tangible difference the peoples lives, they often don't really care about or even give a second thought or acknowledge them. Why is this?

mmmm OK....., is your name Mork? Man, this totally has the taint of troll. Not buying it all.

 

[400WattHPSHawk]

The dude asks an honest question. Why question his motives or intelligence? Just don't answer him if you don't want to.

Thanks to Kearly and a few others for actually treating this guy like a human being. The rest of you -- ugh.

Yes... Ugh.

Ok, "Mark(s)"

Care for a game of 3 card monte?

 

[Tical21]

Poster is full of bs. You don't and can't have autism and Aspergers. Aspergers is basically a level of autism. You can't have both. Anyone that had either would know that.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Poster is full of bs. You don't and can't have autism and Aspergers. Aspergers is basically a level of autism. You can't have both. Anyone that had either would know that.

Well you can technically given it's an actual defined level of autism. Autism has so many different levels and manifestations that it's pretty much impossible to define them all unless they are unique like Aspergers.

 

[BirdsCommaAngry]

(If he's a troll, I don't mind. This is a fun topic to attempt to explain.)

Treesquirrel, some of the answers you're looking for won't be able to be provided by football fans since we're mostly too involved with what you're asking about to be as objective as you're requesting. For the most specific and objective answers about why people have become this way, you will likely find more explanatory answers reading about the psychology and evolutionary motives for all tribal behavior as well as the numerous biases related to these behaviors. Our varying predispositions toward tribalism would appear to be one of the more significant fundamental aspects of football's popularity.

Essentially, to understand the craziness of a football fan's behavior you would need to understand that in the mind of the person who worships football, life is measured on very different kind of scale than yours (particularly when it comes to football). According to this scale in the mind of a fan, it doesn't seem crazy to us to act the way we often do. What seems highly illogical is actually the product of a very different version of logic that is following wildly different rules than the rules you may generally subscribe to.

For example, evolutionary biology offers theories about how back when human beings were evolving in the wild, being irrationally devoted to a group may have been more beneficial for survival and spreading one's genes than being seemingly rationally devoted. Thus, the irrationally tribal live longer, pass the genes for this behavior on to more children, and help promote a future where people may more frequently behave in a similar way. Today, we all may be descendants of earlier generations who survived in part because of their devotions to their respective tribes and some of us would appear to have taken after our ancestors more than others. You might find more information like this very helpful, especially if you've noticed that people may go similarly crazy for a political party, a popular automobile manufacturers, brands of beer, and much, much, much more.

The hardest part of your questions to attempt to answer is why we choose to behave this way about football specifically. There are theories about how anything may become widespread over a population, like the theory of the diffusion of innovations. They may help enhance your understanding of how football might have become what it is today. However, it's difficult, perhaps even impossible, to pinpoint exactly what has so drastically separated football over the alternatives of both past and present. Ultimately, I feel the simplest wisdom I can share with you is football fans behave the way we do partly because it feels pleasurable in a way that can't yet be matched by other sports and hobbies and in way that you may not be able to experience. Chasing this pleasure may not appear logical but to the football fan, it feels logical, like an itch that ought to be scratched, and many of us scratch away without thinking or caring about how rational or irrational it is to do so.

 

[johnnyfever]

This is why. Watch the whole thing or none of it. Best hawks video ever.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaYyfKE ... r_embedded

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

(If he's a troll, I don't mind. This is a fun topic to attempt to explain.)

Treesquirrel, some of the answers you're looking for won't be able to be provided by football fans since we're mostly too involved with what you're asking about to be as objective as you're requesting. For the most specific and objective answers about why people have become this way, you will likely find more explanatory answers reading about the psychology and evolutionary motives for all tribal behavior as well as the numerous biases related to these behaviors. Our varying predispositions toward tribalism would appear to be one of the more significant fundamental aspects of football's popularity.

Essentially, to understand the craziness of a football fan's behavior you would need to understand that in the mind of the person who worships football, life is measured on very different kind of scale than yours (particularly when it comes to football). According to this scale in the mind of a fan, it doesn't seem crazy to us to act the way we often do. What seems highly illogical is actually the product of a very different version of logic that is following wildly different rules than the rules you may generally subscribe to.

For example, evolutionary biology offers theories about how back when human beings were evolving in the wild, being irrationally devoted to a group may have been more beneficial for survival and spreading one's genes than being seemingly rationally devoted. Thus, the irrationally tribal live longer, pass the genes for this behavior on to more children, and help promote a future where people may more frequently behave in a similar way. Today, we all may be descendants of earlier generations who survived in part because of their devotions to their respective tribes and some of us would appear to have taken after our ancestors more than others. You might find more information like this very helpful, especially if you've noticed that people may go similarly crazy for a political party, a popular automobile manufacturers, brands of beer, and much, much, much more.

The hardest part of your questions to attempt to answer is why we choose to behave this way about football specifically. There are theories about how anything may become widespread over a population, like the theory of the diffusion of innovations. They may help enhance your understanding of how football might have become what it is today. However, it's difficult, perhaps even impossible, to pinpoint exactly what has so drastically separated football over the alternatives of both past and present. Ultimately, I feel the simplest wisdom I can share with you is football fans behave the way we do partly because it feels pleasurable in a way that can't yet be matched by other sports and hobbies and in way that you may not be able to experience. Chasing this pleasure may not appear logical but to the football fan, it feels logical, like an itch that ought to be scratched, and many of us scratch away without thinking about rational or irrational it is to do so.

Really informative post girl. :th2thumbs:

 

[Tical21]

Poster is full of bs. You don't and can't have autism and Aspergers. Aspergers is basically a level of autism. You can't have both. Anyone that had either would know that.

Well you can technically given it's an actual defined level of autism. Autism has so many different levels and manifestations that it's pretty much impossible to define them all unless they are unique like Aspergers.

Yes, it is a defined level of autism, exactly. A level. The symptoms aren't unique to Aspergers. Someone with more severe autism has Aspergers plus other afflictions basically. If you have only a certain few autistic traits, you are classified as having Aspergers. Every person with Aspergers has autism. You don't have both. It's like saying I have a broken arm and I might have a broken arm. I spend way more time on autism boards than I do on this one. The folks with autism know it inside and out. Look it up. Nobody with either would ever say that.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Poster is full of bs. You don't and can't have autism and Aspergers. Aspergers is basically a level of autism. You can't have both. Anyone that had either would know that.

Well you can technically given it's an actual defined level of autism. Autism has so many different levels and manifestations that it's pretty much impossible to define them all unless they are unique like Aspergers.

Yes, it is a defined level of autism, exactly. A level. The symptoms aren't unique to Aspergers. Someone with more severe autism has Aspergers plus other afflictions basically. If you have only a certain few autistic traits, you are classified as having Aspergers. Every person with Aspergers has autism. You don't have both. It's like saying I have a broken arm and I might have a broken arm. I spend way more time on autism boards than I do on this one. The folks with autism know it inside and out. Look it up. Nobody with either would ever say that.

I will do just that given I don't have either but I have good friends that have both conditions and more and most are high functioning, in some cases even better than myself.

So tell me Tical21 what are your thoughts on the game this Sunday? 8)

 

[Hawkscanner]

Poster is full of bs. You don't and can't have autism and Aspergers. Aspergers is basically a level of autism. You can't have both. Anyone that had either would know that.

Let me give folks here somewhat of an education on the subject from someone who swam in the clinician ocean for several years. There is considerable debate currently regarding the term "Autism" itself at this point in time. In fact, the more experience you have in actually dealing with people with issues ... the less rock solid and more shades of gray you begin to see. Currently, most clinicians are settling on the term "Autism Spectrum Disorder". Aspergers used to be thought of as somewhat of an entirely different entity ... but I believe those who are labeling it for the DSM-V have it correct. I always used to think of Aspergers and Autism as a continuum ... with Aspergers (to varying degrees) on the "mild" end ... clear up to severe forms of Autism on the other end. While many have accepted the idea of ASD, there are old school practitioners and those who work with disabilities who haven't.

And while I'm on the subject, let me just give a brief education to people into how mental health clinicians generally think when we use the term "disorder." The term itself "disorder" is in reality a pretty slippery term from a mental health standpoint. After all, what IS a disorder? What makes one person "healthy" and one person less than functional. Case in point -- (and I'll use the common understood term) Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. Now, person A has OCD. She tends to be fairly perfectionistic and can't stand disorder generally. She may be the type who bristles at a bed having wrinkles or simply has to flip the toilet paper roll over because in her mind some idiot put it on the wrong way. That extreme attention to detail might actually serve her well, as she might work as an accountant. You want someone who manages money to be a bit OCD. Person B, on the other hand, is SO obsessive that he is completely paralyzed by lack of order. They may be absolutely obsessed with cleanliness or with fixing absolutely every flaw 20,000 times a day in their house. If you've ever seen Jack Nicholson in "As Good As It Gets", let me tell you that those kind of people DO exist.

The point being ... we have 2 different people who from a clinician standpoint have the exact same "disorder" -- yet one person seems able to function with it, while the other person is crippled by it. There-in lies the essential question that we clinicians inherently ask ourselves when it comes to all things mental health. The big question we ask ourselves is, "Does the person's behavior significantly hamper their life and/or the lives of those around them?" If the answer is generally yes, then we speak about that person having a disorder. IF NOT ... then believe it or not many clinicians would conclude that they don't have a "disorder" at all.

Far more important than the labels we throw on things to get insurance companies to pay for services is something that we call GAF (Global Assessment of Functioning). For those who are unfamiliar with it, that is a scale that goes from 0 to 100 ... and is a rough barometer of where that person is operating at a given point in time. A person at a 10 (for example) would be considered to be at extreme danger of hurting themselves or others ... while someone at a 90 or so would be considered someone who is generally on the top of the world, whom life's curveballs never seems to bother them, etc. A person may have a biological disposition towards depression, but may not exhibit any symptoms, as they might have great coping skills, good support people around them, a great job, etc. However, take that same person and let them experience a few significant losses in a short period of time (i.e. loss of a job, death of a spouse, etc.) ... and you can watch that GAF start to plummet -- maybe even down in to the point where they might actively consider suicide. GAF is VERY fluid.

My point of all of this is -- there is a great deal of discussion (and sometimes disagreement) between clinicians over labels and even over what is and isn't a disorder. It takes a good deal of experience to even be able to understand what you're looking at.

All of that said, Autism Spectrum Disorder is something that generally tends to be fairly pervasive and hampers people to one degree or another. From that standpoint, it IS a disorder -- but understand there is a very wide range when it comes to ASD. There are college professors who have ASD ... all the way down to wheel chair bound, non-verbal clients who drool constantly.

Many of the things that treesquirrel is sharing here strike me as classic ASD behaviors actually. Society anxiety/extreme discomfort in highly emotional situations, difficulties regulating and fully understanding emotions, problem understanding social situations -- all very much things you see with ASD.

I have a fellow teacher that I work with whose son has ASD. I actually was his history teacher this year and let me tell you, he absolutely sounds like treesquirrel here. Her son has a very hard time understanding social situations, looks at all of life very analytically, and exhibits many OCD qualities. In talking to the young man, he's pretty emotionless -- basically he is Spock in many ways. So, no -- don't be so quick to call "BS". Forums like this are exactly the kinds of places that a person with ASD might choose to ask questions like treesquirrel is raising here, as the idea of actually having a conversation in person for some could be too much to handle.

 

[johnnyfever]

Poster is full of bs. You don't and can't have autism and Aspergers. Aspergers is basically a level of autism. You can't have both. Anyone that had either would know that.

Well you can technically given it's an actual defined level of autism. Autism has so many different levels and manifestations that it's pretty much impossible to define them all unless they are unique like Aspergers.

Yes, it is a defined level of autism, exactly. A level. The symptoms aren't unique to Aspergers. Someone with more severe autism has Aspergers plus other afflictions basically. If you have only a certain few autistic traits, you are classified as having Aspergers. Every person with Aspergers has autism. You don't have both. It's like saying I have a broken arm and I might have a broken arm. I spend way more time on autism boards than I do on this one. The folks with autism know it inside and out. Look it up. Nobody with either would ever say that.

My wife is a speech therapist and we own a Pediatric clinic in Spokane that specializes in Autism, but is not exclusive to kids on the spectrum. I have met and talked to literally hundreds of kids with autism and aspergers syndrome. No two are the same. There is a reason they call it the "Autism spectrum". I would agree that to me it seems as though the OP is more towards the aspergers end, but I am not educated in the field.

KIds that have aspergers that I have met definitely tend to see the world in black and white, very little grey area. It is or it isn't, there isn't much in between. They take things very literally.

Either way, it is an interesting question and has generated a lot of good discussion on the topic.

 

[Hawkscanner]

Poster is full of bs. You don't and can't have autism and Aspergers. Aspergers is basically a level of autism. You can't have both. Anyone that had either would know that.

Well you can technically given it's an actual defined level of autism. Autism has so many different levels and manifestations that it's pretty much impossible to define them all unless they are unique like Aspergers.

Yes, it is a defined level of autism, exactly. A level. The symptoms aren't unique to Aspergers. Someone with more severe autism has Aspergers plus other afflictions basically. If you have only a certain few autistic traits, you are classified as having Aspergers. Every person with Aspergers has autism. You don't have both. It's like saying I have a broken arm and I might have a broken arm. I spend way more time on autism boards than I do on this one. The folks with autism know it inside and out. Look it up. Nobody with either would ever say that.

My wife is a speech therapist and we own a Pediatric clinic in Spokane that specializes in Autism, but is not exclusive to kids on the spectrum. I have met and talked to literally hundreds of kids with autism and aspergers syndrome. No two are the same. There is a reason they call it the "Autism spectrum". I would agree that to me it seems as though the OP is more towards the aspergers end, but I am not educated in the field.

KIds that have aspergers that I have met definitely tend to see the world in black and white, very little grey area. It is or it isn't, there isn't much in between. They take things very literally.

Either way, it is an interesting question and has generated a lot of good discussion on the topic.

That's right -- many kids and adults who have ASD tend to be very dichotomous in their thinking. You wear either the black hat or the white. Understanding that there could be shades of gray can be very difficult. It can also be very hard for them to understand motivations behind behaviors that they see. Figuring out why people do the things they do can be a big mystery and can greatly vex them, as does understanding sarcasm.

 

[HawkMeat]

thank you for being transparent OP. I think you received some good answers, better than I could explain. I am typically a cynic, but I believe the OP and applaud those that provided kind answers in return.

Go Hawks! :thirishdrinkers:

 

[TwistedHusky]

This is an amazing thread, both for an opportunity for introspection and examining some of the fundamental drivers that cause us to enjoy this sport as much as we do for the many reasons we have picked up.

While it could be a troll, or a manipulative thread, so what? If it helps people explore all of the threads that tie them to a sport they love, how is that bad?

But I will say that my experience with autism (or asperger's) is encountering people with very same ways of looking at the world emotionally. An ex-gf spent years working with autistic kids, and because it was her interest it became mine. It really is interesting because you don't even realize you have an emotional language that you engage in and that you need, as humans are social animals. And yet that is a language that not everyone has a translator for.

Autistic people have emotions. They just speak a very different emotional language than many others.

That means they might not react the same, they might not pick up the numerous social clues we give each other hundreds of times an hour - so some struggle to understand why people act/react the way they do. And because fitting in is still important to many, it becomes important to understand it.

We are ultimately still social animals and so we still want to engage with others. Hell that motivation explains message board themselves - you are ultimately bonding with a group of people over a shared interest.

So this could be a troll but I have personally met 2 people with autism and a few with Asperger's (spelling?) that had asked some very similar questions. When you do not have the inclination to act emotionally in certain ways, that can seem utterly irrational.

As for whether Asperger's is autism? Well they were talking about removing Asperger's from the DSM a while back. So I suspect the actual boundaries between Aspergers and autism might not be as clear or rigid as some are suggesting. Not a mental health prof, but I imagine some in here can elaborate on this.

I will say, that given I have had several people with disorders like this flat out ask me questions like this (more about people's emotional connection to music and how they follow bands, etc but similar in perspective), it fits.

(And if you are not clear just how inscrutable things can be when the emotional translator is stripped? Well message board speak has the same problem, people constantly miss interpret meaning, humor and the like to the point that eventually people started using emoticons and tags like "*SARCASM*" or "*KIDDING*" to keep from getting lumped into the wrong emotional boxes. Really easy to miss that someone is kidding or angry when you have no way to translate the non-verbal signals that people give, or the ways that changing voice/posture totally changes the meaning.)

And it is an interesting wrinkle on just how/why the local football team affects you in all these ways.

From how football memories bring you back to special cherished moments, to how tribal tendencies make people want to gather under some shared identity, to achieving victory vicariously through almost a group of proxies, to people that you invest in emotionally and feel a shared sense of accomplishment in seeing them grow + thrive, and even as a substitute for war.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Seriously good posts from the guys in the know. It actually helps me understand myself and my personal choices of defense mechanisms. .Net is an awesome place believe it.

 

[BirdsCommaAngry]

Really informative post girl. :th2thumbs:

Thanks! I am also a man.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

From how football memories bring you back to special cherished moments, to how tribal tendencies make people want to gather under some shared identity, to achieving victory vicariously through almost a group of proxies, to people that you invest in emotionally and feel a shared sense of accomplishment in seeing them grow + thrive, and even as a substitute for war.

In other words, sports are the only sense of adventure and purpose most people have?

Sadly enough, I'd believe that.