Why do I get the feeling...

keasley45

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 4, 2010
Messages
1,632
Reaction score
1,002
Location
Cockeysville, Md
On the previous play, the ball was handed off to Lynch, and he almost got it to the house. Doesn't that sort of dispell the stories about trying to screw Lynch out of the MVP and/or build Wilson into one?
Yeah, I don't think it was about elevating Wilson. Passing was a logical call to make. The play should have been an easy TD. I'd be interested to know how many times in the last 10 years that same pick play has been intercepted. I'd wager Wilson's might still be the only one. It was a bad throw and a great read by the defense.
Had we scored, no one would have said we were lucky to get it in with such a high risk play. It was a gimme and we botched it.
I think I saw a stat at one point that said that over the course of the year, we had the ball in a similar goal line situation and when running, only converted 1 of 4 or 5. That's 20-25% success.
Unfortunately, losing on a Wilson INT and then on THAT play with a SB on the line... for there to be no constructive criticism of Wilson of how the throw could have been better... THAT, I think, after already experiencing the coddling of Russ prior, was the straw that broke the LOB's back. And I honestly can't blame them.
 
OP
OP
Aros

Aros

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Feb 23, 2007
Messages
15,699
Reaction score
350
Location
Sultan, WA
Not trying to be a Russ Apologist here but I always felt that while the throw was far from his best, the lackadaisical effort from Lockette was the real story. Instead of really attacking the ball and going after it he was simply blown up and flailed his arms up like a b*tch. I love Lockette, have mad respect for the devastating neck injury he suffered and all of that, but on that play he was a chump plain and simple. I always felt if the target was Baldwin at the very least that pick doesn't happen. However, I agree with your points in general.
 

Spin Doctor

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 8, 2009
Messages
4,117
Reaction score
162
Not trying to be a Russ Apologist here but I always felt that while the throw was far from his best, the lackadaisical effort from Lockette was the real story. Instead of really attacking the ball and going after it he was simply blown up and flailed his arms up like a b*tch. I love Lockette, have mad respect for the devastating neck injury he suffered and all of that, but on that play he was a chump plain and simple. I always felt if the target was Baldwin at the very least that pick doesn't happen. However, I agree with your points in general.
Which begs the question: Why did we call on Lockette, our number 4 receiver at the time to make that play? A guy known for running sloppy routes. In addition to this, in goalline situations we only ran that specific play out of that formation. We also ran a play that was contingent upon the receiver picking off Brandon Browner, a guy known for his size and physicality.

The play was DOA the moment it was called in. The personnel was a complete mismatch for the situation and the Patriots knew exactly what was coming the moment we lined up. It didn't help either that Wilson and Lockette didn't execute properly. Really, this call should have gotten Bevell canned right then and there.
 

FattyKnuckle

Active member
Joined
Sep 30, 2020
Messages
241
Reaction score
43
Which begs the question: Why did we call on Lockette, our number 4 receiver at the time to make that play? A guy known for running sloppy routes. In addition to this, in goalline situations we only ran that specific play out of that formation. We also ran a play that was contingent upon the receiver picking off Brandon Browner, a guy known for his size and physicality.

The play was DOA the moment it was called in. The personnel was a complete mismatch for the situation and the Patriots knew exactly what was coming the moment we lined up. It didn't help either that Wilson and Lockette didn't execute properly. Really, this call should have gotten Bevell canned right then and there.
I think he was #5 actually. Could be wrong. If only we had a RB that everyone knew was going to get the ball. Then we could maybe pretend to give him the ball and fool the DBs for a step or two. I think someone should come up with a play that does that, but it does require keeping the RB in the backfield and not motioning him out so everyone knew it was a pass.
 

hawkfan68

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
8,591
Reaction score
91
Location
Sammamish, WA
Not trying to be a Russ Apologist here but I always felt that while the throw was far from his best, the lackadaisical effort from Lockette was the real story. Instead of really attacking the ball and going after it he was simply blown up and flailed his arms up like a b*tch. I love Lockette, have mad respect for the devastating neck injury he suffered and all of that, but on that play he was a chump plain and simple. I always felt if the target was Baldwin at the very least that pick doesn't happen. However, I agree with your points in general.
I agree with this. Chris Matthews had a great first half. He disappeared in the 2nd half. He should have been in that role. He may have not caught it but Butler wouldn't have gone through him like he did with Lockette. It's not the play call that bothered me. It was the personnel and who they targeted on that particular play that bites. Lynch was all alone on the other side in the end zone. RW should have thrown his way. They both could have been the heroes.
 

Threedee

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 16, 2014
Messages
3,797
Reaction score
41
Location
Federal Way, WA
Yeah, I don't think it was about elevating Wilson. Passing was a logical call to make. The play should have been an easy TD. I'd be interested to know how many times in the last 10 years that same pick play has been intercepted. I'd wager Wilson's might still be the only one. It was a bad throw and a great read by the defense.
Had we scored, no one would have said we were lucky to get it in with such a high risk play. It was a gimme and we botched it.
I think I saw a stat at one point that said that over the course of the year, we had the ball in a similar goal line situation and when running, only converted 1 of 4 or 5. That's 20-25% success.
Unfortunately, losing on a Wilson INT and then on THAT play with a SB on the line... for there to be no constructive criticism of Wilson of how the throw could have been better... THAT, I think, after already experiencing the coddling of Russ prior, was the straw that broke the LOB's back. And I honestly can't blame them.
In the end, it didn't really matter much, because we had to rely on Bevell to dream something up.
 
OP
OP
Aros

Aros

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Feb 23, 2007
Messages
15,699
Reaction score
350
Location
Sultan, WA
I agree with this. Chris Matthews had a great first half. He disappeared in the 2nd half. He should have been in that role. He may have not caught it but Butler wouldn't have gone through him like he did with Lockette. It's not the play call that bothered me. It was the personnel and who they targeted on that particular play that bites. Lynch was all alone on the other side in the end zone. RW should have thrown his way. They both could have been the heroes.

Boy, Matthews was well on his way of being XLIX MVP. Why we thought Lockette was the best option there (other than the element of surprise) is beyond me. Terrible route runner...Maybe they thought we would never dare throw to him in that situation, but has been mentioned, the Patriots knew the play the second we lined up. That's bad coaching.

Bad coaching, bad execution and there goes two time SB champs. It's a cutthroat sport and that final play illustrates that truth magnificently.
 

sc85sis

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2010
Messages
7,543
Reaction score
163
Location
Houston Suburbs
It didn't help that our LOB was a virtual M*A*S*H unit in XLIX, with Avril out, Lane's replacement (I think I could have been as effective)...The Patriots did the right thing and took advantage of our weakened D, especially in the second half, and there goes our 10 point lead into the 4th. But yes, the narrative will always be that Russ threw the pick instead of checking out of the play or handing off to Lynch, sealing our fate as back-to-back champions.

Ironically, THAT, may end up being a very large part of "The Legacy" Russell is remembered for.
And yet I rarely see people blame Russ. The general public doesn’t place blame at the feet of Bevell either. It’s always Pete getting lambasted for the call.
 

TheLegendOfBoom

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 15, 2015
Messages
2,258
Reaction score
104
Location
Westcoastin’
Boy, Matthews was well on his way of being XLIX MVP. Why we thought Lockette was the best option there (other than the element of surprise) is beyond me. Terrible route runner...Maybe they thought we would never dare throw to him in that situation, but has been mentioned, the Patriots knew the play the second we lined up. That's bad coaching.

Bad coaching, bad execution and there goes two time SB champs. It's a cutthroat sport and that final play illustrates that truth magnificently.
Possible dynasties and legacies can be stamped as legendary or as much buffoonery on one single play call.

Unfortunately, we stand with the latter. And that will never go away and we will always think, “what could have been?”

Well, that’s life, sometimes, I guess.
 

Ad Hawk

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 6, 2011
Messages
2,941
Reaction score
91
Possible dynasties and legacies can be stamped as legendary or as much buffoonery on one single play call.

Unfortunately, we stand with the latter. And that will never go away and we will always think, “what could have been?”

Well, that’s life, sometimes, I guess.

Imagine how Kaepernick and the 49ers felt after "the tip." The play was run well, and executed with nearly perfect precision. But a fantastic play by an athletic and intelligent CB put an end their SB hopes, and gave us the chance (and reality) of our first SB win.
 

hoxrox

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 5, 2009
Messages
2,126
Reaction score
118
It was one of the worst play calls ever. As the head coach, he should have never allowed it to happen.

In fact, he should have meddled and instead of letting Russ cook in that moment, just hand the ball off to Marshawn?

Dang it for not meddling. Dang it for wanting Russ to be the hero that day.
 

hawkfan68

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
8,591
Reaction score
91
Location
Sammamish, WA
And yet I rarely see people blame Russ. The general public doesn’t place blame at the feet of Bevell either. It’s always Pete getting lambasted for the call.
Pete took the blame for it. However, we all know it was Bevell who called that play even if the media doesn't acknowledge it. But there are many others to blame for the failure of the play (including Russ, Lockette, etc).

In my mind, Bevell gets the larger share of the blame for it though. He is responsible for the personnel on the field and in my opinion, he didn't have the right personnel to properly execute that play as it was called or executed on the field.
 

FattyKnuckle

Active member
Joined
Sep 30, 2020
Messages
241
Reaction score
43
Pete took the blame for it. However, we all know it was Bevell who called that play even if the media doesn't acknowledge it. But there are many others to blame for the failure of the play (including Russ, Lockette, etc).

In my mind, Bevell gets the larger share of the blame for it though. He is responsible for the personnel on the field and in my opinion, he didn't have the right personnel to properly execute that play as it was called or executed on the field.
Their comments right after the game showed us all where the blame lied. Carrol said "I'm the head coach, blame stops at me". Russ said "I threw the pass, blame me". Lynch said "I don't call plays, I execute them". Bevell said "Pete could've changed the call if he wanted to and the WR didn't try very hard."
 
OP
OP
Aros

Aros

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Feb 23, 2007
Messages
15,699
Reaction score
350
Location
Sultan, WA
I'm not so convinced it was a terrible call. How were the coaches supposed to know the Patriots had game planned specifically for that call? How would they have known Malcolm Butler was chastised on that very play call in practice which reinforced his efforts if he were to see that very play in the Super Bowl? I don't mind the call. What I DO mind is the poor execution of the call. You needed Matthews to be the decoy and to rough up Browner due to his matching size and you sure as hell needed Baldwin as the receiver, not our 4th receiver.

And yes, you needed Russ to be better as well and deliver that ball on the inside where there was no chance for it to be picked.
 

jammerhawk

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Mar 5, 2007
Messages
8,689
Reaction score
290
Everyone but Bevell took their share of responsibility for the play. Bevell blamed everyone and took no responsibility for the play. Why he wasn't fired after that when the smoke cleared is something that remains a huge question mark for me.
 

BASF

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
2,262
Reaction score
227
I'm not so convinced it was a terrible call. How were the coaches supposed to know the Patriots had game planned specifically for that call? How would they have known Malcolm Butler was chastised on that very play call in practice which reinforced his efforts if he were to see that very play in the Super Bowl? I don't mind the call. What I DO mind is the poor execution of the call. You needed Matthews to be the decoy and to rough up Browner due to his matching size and you sure as hell needed Baldwin as the receiver, not our 4th receiver.

And yes, you needed Russ to be better as well and deliver that ball on the inside where there was no chance for it to be picked.
I am the exact opposite of this. If Bevell had modified the play to where Lockette sprints to the pylon (I keep suggesting this and no one ever comments) the block inside would have swallowed Browner and Butler and no one catches Lockette for an easy pitch and catch. The Niners of old ran that out to Rice in the end zone dozens of times and no one ever stopped it. I still can't figure out why teams no longer run it.
 

FattyKnuckle

Active member
Joined
Sep 30, 2020
Messages
241
Reaction score
43
I'm not so convinced it was a terrible call. How were the coaches supposed to know the Patriots had game planned specifically for that call? How would they have known Malcolm Butler was chastised on that very play call in practice which reinforced his efforts if he were to see that very play in the Super Bowl? I don't mind the call. What I DO mind is the poor execution of the call. You needed Matthews to be the decoy and to rough up Browner due to his matching size and you sure as hell needed Baldwin as the receiver, not our 4th receiver.

And yes, you needed Russ to be better as well and deliver that ball on the inside where there was no chance for it to be picked.
They motioned Lynch out of the backfield. Mobile QB, bone crushing RB. The proper pass to call is a play action bootleg. Everyone "knows" Lynch is getting it, right? So the DBs take a bad step or two from the PA (which was a huge strength for us then), Russ has the option of running it in if no one pops open or sailing it out of the back of the end zone and have 2 more tries at it. Passing wasn't a terrible call, that particular pass play was atrocious.
 
Top