What would it take for Wilson to win MVP?

[Mad Dog]

Mahomes would excell in any system.

Not sure the same could be said about Russell.

And yes, Mahomes on our team would make us better. And make Mahomes look worse.

But regardless, it is what it is. Mahomes playing better.

Russ has excelled every place he’s been. Given our system so often just relied on Russ street balling in the 4th quarter, I think his skill set travels.

That being said, I suspect Mahomes skill set would travel too. But until he gets put in a conservative defense minded archaic system like ours, we’ll never know.

 

[Scorpion05]

The difference between me and yall is that I dont see things as black and white.

Andy Reid can be a great coach with a great system, and Patrick Mahomes can be a great QB with phenomenal physical and mental gifts.

All those guys were elevated by Reid, but none anywhere near the level of Mahomes.

Alex Smith in the "top 3" (which no reasonable person ever believed) MVP year finished with 4000 yards and 27 TDs.

The VERY NEXT YEAR with the same coach, same scheme, and same cast, Mahomes threw for nearly 5000 and 50.

And that was BY FAR Smith's best year under read. Every other year he was right around 20 touchdowns.

McNabb's best year he had 30 touchdowns and 3800 yards, every other year he hovered around 20 touchdowns or less.

What Mahomes has done in Reids system exceeds anything any other QB has ever done under Reid, and continues to be historic.

Yes, he has to sustain it, but that doesnt take away from what he has done and continues to do.

That Russ runs second fiddle to a legendary run of QB performances from Mahomes is not a slight to Russ.

Fair enough. Problem is, your points are even more black and white.

Thing is, this isn't even just about Russell Wilson. You and others are claiming Mahomes is doing something unprecedented. I would argue that I've seen Peyton Manning and Tom Brady play better.

And that, ultimately is my point. I asked you...what is Mahomes better at than Russell Wilson? Can you list them? There are indeed some things Mahomes is better at, but not enough to make Mahomes a better Quarterback. If you disagree, list them.

McNabb was very athletic but was not an accurate QB. Alex Smith, like I said was a complete bust before Andy Reid. Do I need to break down his career with the 49ers?

The argument isn't that any of those guys were elevated to Mahomes' level. That's a black and white point, as you say. Mahomes is extremely talented. So is Aaron Rodgers. So was Dan Marino. THAT. DOES.NOT.MAKE.YOU.A.BETTER.QB

Andy Dalton probably wouldn't look as good as Jared Goff in McVay's system. Does it mean Goff isn't elevated by McVay?

Are you denying that Mahomes has never had a bad o-line? Are you denying that he doesn't have the best tight end in the league? Are you denying he doesn't have great weapons? And that he doesn't often have open receivers to throw to? Are you gonna argue next that Andy Reid doesn't have great screen designs in his system too?

Are you aware that the Chiefs lead the NFL in yards after catch? Let me guess, Mahomes throws and catches it to himself, then runs 50 yards? That's not Andy Reid's scheme? LMAO. Mahomes is great, but he is not the greatest and it is outright embarassing that there are so called football fans here claiming as such. He's not dissecting defenses the way a Peyton, Tom Brady, and now Russell Wilson is. He's throwing bombs all over the field with his ridiculous arm talent and throwing 80 yards into the air to receivers at times with 5 yards of separation. Or screens. Greatest talent maybe, not the better quarterback

 

[John63]

The difference between me and yall is that I dont see things as black and white.

Andy Reid can be a great coach with a great system, and Patrick Mahomes can be a great QB with phenomenal physical and mental gifts.

All those guys were elevated by Reid, but none anywhere near the level of Mahomes.

Alex Smith in the "top 3" (which no reasonable person ever believed) MVP year finished with 4000 yards and 27 TDs.

The VERY NEXT YEAR with the same coach, same scheme, and same cast, Mahomes threw for nearly 5000 and 50.

And that was BY FAR Smith's best year under read. Every other year he was right around 20 touchdowns.

McNabb's best year he had 30 touchdowns and 3800 yards, every other year he hovered around 20 touchdowns or less.

What Mahomes has done in Reids system exceeds anything any other QB has ever done under Reid, and continues to be historic.

Yes, he has to sustain it, but that doesnt take away from what he has done and continues to do.

That Russ runs second fiddle to a legendary run of QB performances from Mahomes is not a slight to Russ.

No the difference is you supply nothing but your opinion and expect us.to buy it. Nothing you have said proves he is better than wilson, or could perform as well on a team using the system we do. Also in case you did not notice expecting mahomes to perhaps take back the yards and maybe td lead. He will still trail Wilson in Comp% and QB rating, rushing tds and rushing yards. Something a guy who you profess is so much better than everyone else should but happen. If he is as good as you say he should be running away with category but is not.

 

[chris98251]

As far ad comparing the situation to Luck or RG3 or Cam, it holds no water.

None of those guys were clearly better than Wilson. In fact, in nearly every way it was clear at the time that they were not.

With Mahomes it is pretty easy to demonstrate that up to this point (which is all we have, BTW) he is clearly better than Russ and every other QB in the league.

Really? umm where were they drafted by the so called experts and where was Wilson drafted if you want absolutes, I mean the guys that do this for a living have to be right.

Each one of those teams thought those players were better then Wilson.

 

[chris98251]

I want to know how SiouxMcGruff snuck in the back door and switched from Tjack to Mahomes?

Then Hates on Schotty, he must be hoping Bevell gets fired and goes to KC next.

 

[Sports Hernia]

Russ would have to stay on the same pace, and Seattle would have to run the table and win the super bowl.
Mahomes (whom I like) is the new NFL golden boy, replacing Luck. MVP will be his barring a major injury.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

Just call it the really awesome old fart award and give it to Chris-postcode everyear?

Hey now, there's other 'awesome' old guys here too. :les:

 

[McGruff]

Chris, you are hilarious.

And wrong.

I'm not talking about what people think or thought.

Sure, people thought cam and RG3 and Luck were better than Wilson. They were wrong then and were obviously wrong now.

Back then Wilson was clearly better than those players, and was, in fact, slighted because of drafted position, physical height, and unorthodox style.

That is not what is happening here. If Wilson loses the MVP to Mahomes it will be because Mahomes is clearly better, but because Wilson is overlooked.

And I have ALWAYS been a Wilson fan. ALWAYS.

And I was a Bevell supporter and think Schottenheimer is solid and is good for Russ.

It is possible to hold to all of these opinions all at the same time. None of them are mutually exclusive.

 

[Cyrus12]

It's a popularity contest and the NFL wants Mahomes to be the face of the league when Brady goes. Wilson could throw for 5000 yds and 60 tds and at best all he'd get is a pro bowl out of it

 

[massari]

Wilson is just as marketable as Mahomes, and don't see any other reason why the NFL wouldn't crown the rightful winner between them.

Adding Antonio Brown when/if cleared would help.

 

[McGruff]

It's a popularity contest and the NFL wants Mahomes to be the face of the league when Brady goes. Wilson could throw for 5000 yds and 60 tds and at best all he'd get is a pro bowl out of it

I dont think that's true.

If Mahomes wins it will be because he puts up better numbers.

No conspiracy needed.

 

[Mick063]

There is still a lot of season to go.

Right now, Mahomes would appear to be the obvious choice.

There is a chance that some team could figure out the blueprint to address Andy Reid's scheme and we all know that the NFL is a copycat league. Perhaps enough to diminish his quarterback's gaudy numbers. I'm not saying faceplant because Mahomes is good enough to overcome scheming. I'm just saying diminished. Somewhat contained. I guess the point I'm making is that if that were to happen, it does not hurt for us to lobby for Wilson early in the season. To keep his name front and center throughout the season.

The best professional golfers have been known to go into a slump when their swing gets just a little off. The best pro basketball scorers have been known to endure an occasional scoring slump. We all know that the Legion of Boom was lights out great in about 85% of the games in their hey day. That number dropped to about 70% a couple of years later as they increasingly started to display some head scratching performances (Remember the last place, Jeff Fisher Rams being a total pain in the ass?) Most of it probably tied to opposing offensive coordinators observing an increasing video history of successful counter schemes (Thanks Bill Belichik and your relentless swing pass to the running back in the flat). Aaron Rogers is still elite, but his play has noticeably dropped off in recent years. Probably due more to team chemistry than perceived personal decline.

Mahomes is consistently great, but consistency is probably the most difficult thing to maintain in the NFL. Especially in a team sport where success is dependant on so many moving parts and where counter schemes so rapidly evolve and are so commonly emulated.

It all boils down to the MVP being a race of consistency, statistics, and winning. And lobbying. I think at his current pace, Wilson has a slight shot. Perhaps in the 20% range. No doubt he would have to at least maintain his current level of excellence.

 

[John63]

Chris, you are hilarious.

And wrong.

I'm not talking about what people think or thought.

Sure, people thought cam and RG3 and Luck were better than Wilson. They were wrong then and were obviously wrong now.

Back then Wilson was clearly better than those players, and was, in fact, slighted because of drafted position, physical height, and unorthodox style.

That is not what is happening here. If Wilson loses the MVP to Mahomes it will be because Mahomes is clearly better, but because Wilson is overlooked.

And I have ALWAYS been a Wilson fan. ALWAYS.

And I was a Bevell supporter and think Schottenheimer is solid and is good for Russ.

It is possible to hold to all of these opinions all at the same time. None of them are mutually exclusive.

I dont believe one word you just said. And MVP or not Majomes is not clearly better than wilson. Having a better season does not mean better. Newton won MVP but is not even close to better than alot of the other QBs. As I stated as of now he trails Wilson in several categories that someone who you say is so superior should not especially given he has better players at ever position around him, something you keep forgetting to mention.

 

[John63]

It's a popularity contest and the NFL wants Mahomes to be the face of the league when Brady goes. Wilson could throw for 5000 yds and 60 tds and at best all he'd get is a pro bowl out of it

I dont think that's true.

If Mahomes wins it will be because he puts up better numbers.

No conspiracy needed.

Of course you do, it supports your narrative yet we all know it is a popularity contest

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

It's a popularity contest and the NFL wants Mahomes to be the face of the league when Brady goes. Wilson could throw for 5000 yds and 60 tds and at best all he'd get is a pro bowl out of it

I dont think that's true.

If Mahomes wins it will be because he puts up better numbers.

No conspiracy needed.

Of course you do, ot supports your narrative yet we all know it is a popularity contest

So is your stance on the subject

 

[John63]

It's a popularity contest and the NFL wants Mahomes to be the face of the league when Brady goes. Wilson could throw for 5000 yds and 60 tds and at best all he'd get is a pro bowl out of it

I dont think that's true.

If Mahomes wins it will be because he puts up better numbers.

No conspiracy needed.

Of course you do, ot supports your narrative yet we all know it is a popularity contest

So is your stance on the subject

Lol if you have been reading i stated by stance and used facts. Several times.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

I dont think that's true.

If Mahomes wins it will be because he puts up better numbers.

No conspiracy needed.

Of course you do, ot supports your narrative yet we all know it is a popularity contest

So is your stance on the subject

Lol if you have been reading i stated by stance and used facts. Several times.

So did McGruff, and he's coming from a place that isn't "defend Russ and go after anyone says anything that even infers he isn't the greatest QB to ever play the game".

 

[John63]

Of course you do, ot supports your narrative yet we all know it is a popularity contest

So is your stance on the subject

Lol if you have been reading i stated by stance and used facts. Several times.

So did McGruff, and he's coming from a place that isn't "defend Russ and go after anyone says anything that even infers he isn't the greatest QB to ever play the game".

Ahh actually he did not and he is comming from a place of Mahomes is better than anyone and way better no matter what even when the facts say other wise. FyI please show me qere I said Wilson was the best ever? I never did, so ho put words I to someone else's mouth.

 

[Jville]

^^^

:177692: That's enough of that.

Time out in effect.

 

[Jville]

Let's see if we can reopen this thread with something pertinent to the subject .......................



.................................. Russell certainly looks like he is on his way to an MPV season :biggthumpup: