USA Today: Hawks OL is a disaster, but Wilson isn't helping

[Spin Doctor]

What we are seeing with our offense is an indicative of a few issues. The first problem is the fact that Wilson does not know how to manipulate a pocket very well. His response to pressure has always been to either roll out of the pocket to his side, or turn his back, and flip the field. He has even been known to straight up walk himself into sacks. His pocket awareness is not very good, never has been and quite frankly he has never had to develop this skill set due to the offense we run. If we compare this to somebody like Brees, one can see a huge difference. Brees sets up his blockers, and he has a very subtle side step that he uses to avoid defenders. He's not very mobile, but he a very good internal timer, and an excellent sense of how to move through a cluttered pocket with efficient movement.

This leads to the main issue, the way our offense is structured. It has held back Wilson's growth as a passer, and football player in general. Our offense never has relied on rhythm, or structure. We've banked on Wilson buying time for long developing routes to get open. We also have relied on the threat of Wilson's mobility to clear out space for the running game. Defensive ends can't crash, because if defensive ends commit too hard on the read option the defense ends up getting burned for big plays. Our offense has always been a clown fiesta reminiscent of a backyard football game.

This kind of football has really hindered Wilson's progress as a player, and it makes it very hard for a QB to get into a rhythm, which is an integral part of the modern passing game in the NFL. It's a surefire way to limit turnovers, but it also is very risky way to play the game. If Seattle doesn't establish the run, or get that big knockout play we end up with an offense that doesn't accomplish anything.

Essentially, Pete, Bevell, and Cable have shown an unwillingness or inability to adjust for the cards they are dealt on offense. This game was a good example. We kept throwing the max protect formations out, and most of the time there were more DB's than receivers out on the field..... Despite our offensive line playing a piss poor game we kept going with our initial game plan. We kept running 5 to 7 step drops, we kept running long developing plays, and in some cases Wilson didn't really even have a check down option. This is the kind of structure that ruins a QB. Wilson isn't playing very good at the moment, but Seattle also has not given him the necessary tools to succeed, or grow as a player. Until our offense starts putting more trust and responsibility in Wilson the QB, this type of frustrating offense will always rear its ugly head.

 

[pittpnthrs]

There is nothing wrong with Russell or our Oline. Russell needs to trust himself and his teammates more is the only real problem I can see.
The Oline is holding up and giving Russell time to get rid of the ball, he is just holding on to it to long.

 

[scutterhawk]

The second half of 2015 is proof that Wilson can pass from the "pocket", his numbers were sensational ONCE Cable got the O-Line to form a pocket, and then Pass protect their asses off.

THEN 2016 happens, Pete gives Cable the task of re-booting for the Run game, thinking that we maybe had enough Backs to reestablish his run first mantra....Only problem is, Wilson's pocket disintegrates, he gets creamed, hurt, and everything goes back to square one.

The problem with your statement is that you're just assuming 2015's line was good because Wilson was good, and that 2016 Wilson was bad because his OL was bad.

But you aren't remembering it right.

2015's OL wasn't good. It still included Garry Gilliam, Justin Britt at the wrong position, J.R. Sweezy, and Patrick Lewis. Only one of those guys is still here (and the general consensus is that Gilliam and Sweezy were both laughably overpaid). Yet Wilson was great.

2016's OL was worse, yet Wilson still had his great moments. I don't remember anyone complaining about the OL when we beat New England, Philadelphia, or Detroit. Or the Rams and 49ers games that we won.

If you're looking for an explanation, Wilson's good spells fit far better with different gameplanning (i.e. get the ball out quickly) than it does with the talent quality of his OL. But too many of us are ingrained with one simple axiom - "success = good pass protection" - and have never really paid attention to how other factors can mask OL deficiency.

Constant changes in O-Line duties net constant change in the results.
Wilson is the only "Constant" in the OFFENSE, therefore he is the one that has to constantly adapt.
The CHANGE in Wilson's play at the midway of 2015, going from being the most sacked, hit, and hurried Quarterback in the League, to THE most proficient Quarterback in the League, was because the Coaching 'Dumbed It Down' for the O-Line...The proof is how the O-Line had shored up, giving Wilson a pocket to pass from.
NOT having Marshawn Lynch in there to help in keeping Defenses honest, Bevell & Cable were FORCED into to changing their entire Offensive scheme......Cable said as much.
It's Obvious that Pete has tasked Tom Cable to reestablish the Run First O-line, Problem is, Lynch is no longer here to help with that arduous process.
Coach-Training has a way of disappearing for a green O-Line, especially when the player is under attack by more seasoned Defenses, and old bad habits reemerge (see last Sunday).
And, for the folks that say that Wilson is not a pocket passer, they have an evaporating memory...From the shootout with the Steelers and through the rest of that Season, Wilson was the BEST in the League at passing from the "Pocket"....The "Too Short" comments have been dredged up yet again in this thread.....Absurd.

 

[Hawks46]

When Russell was hurt last year and couldn't leave the pocket, there were times when he would literally stare down the left side of the field and not attempt a pass to the right side. So that's a 3rd alternative to growing eyes on the back of his head. Unfortunately, that strategy cuts off half the field and makes the passing game much more predictable.

Or maybe they could address the LT position!

I saw him do that a couple of times in the GB game. Which is really weird since most right handed QB's like to throw to the right side of the field more.

I hope he's not getting Carr'd, but he still needs to work on his pocket presence. And no, I don't think it's his height. His OL was bigger than ours at Wisconsin and he stood in the pocket and dished it out. Like someone else said, his internal clock is at 2 seconds instead of 3. Which is cutting his reads down by at least one progression. .

 

[Optimus25]

I think we need to get russ mobile sooner. The quicker we force defenses to spy, the better our outlook for other facets of the offense. But if they only have to play us like a run of the mill pocket passing pro style offense, it's cave man easy to defend.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

The second half of 2015 is proof that Wilson can pass from the "pocket", his numbers were sensational ONCE Cable got the O-Line to form a pocket, and then Pass protect their asses off.

THEN 2016 happens, Pete gives Cable the task of re-booting for the Run game, thinking that we maybe had enough Backs to reestablish his run first mantra....Only problem is, Wilson's pocket disintegrates, he gets creamed, hurt, and everything goes back to square one.

The problem with your statement is that you're just assuming 2015's line was good because Wilson was good, and that 2016 Wilson was bad because his OL was bad.

But you aren't remembering it right.

2015's OL wasn't good. It still included Garry Gilliam, Justin Britt at the wrong position, J.R. Sweezy, and Patrick Lewis. Only one of those guys is still here (and the general consensus is that Gilliam and Sweezy were both laughably overpaid). Yet Wilson was great.

2016's OL was worse, yet Wilson still had his great moments. I don't remember anyone complaining about the OL when we beat New England, Philadelphia, or Detroit. Or the Rams and 49ers games that we won.

If you're looking for an explanation, Wilson's good spells fit far better with different gameplanning (i.e. get the ball out quickly) than it does with the talent quality of his OL. But too many of us are ingrained with one simple axiom - "success = good pass protection" - and have never really paid attention to how other factors can mask OL deficiency.

Constant changes in O-Line duties net constant change in the results.
Wilson is the only "Constant" in the OFFENSE, therefore he is the one that has to constantly adapt.
The CHANGE in Wilson's play at the midway of 2015, going from being the most sacked, hit, and hurried Quarterback in the League, to THE most proficient Quarterback in the League, was because the Coaching 'Dumbed It Down' for the O-Line...The proof is how the O-Line had shored up, giving Wilson a pocket to pass from.

Can you prove this? Do you have detailed knowledge about how Cable changed his coaching scheme?

On the other hand, people can point to changes in the formations and timing of Wilson's throws that indicate lots more spread concepts, allowing him to get the ball out faster. Scottemojo (God rest his posting career) talked about that quite a bit. The result was that linebackers couldn't pressure the line constantly and thus the OL had fewer defenders to worry about. That's why they looked better.

I think you're still proceeding from the assumption that OL play is the only thing driving offensive performance.

 

[Popeyejones]

I think we need to get russ mobile sooner. The quicker we force defenses to spy, the better our outlook for other facets of the offense. But if they only have to play us like a run of the mill pocket passing pro style offense, it's cave man easy to defend.

The misdirection those types of plays rely on doesn't work without a run game other teams are afraid of.

As for pocket oriented offenses being easy to defend, someone needs to tell that to the opponents of the Pats, Saints, Packers, etc., as if that's true they don't really have an excuse for getting carved up week in and week out.

 

[jammerhawk]

What we are seeing with our offense is an indicative of a few issues. The first problem is the fact that Wilson does not know how to manipulate a pocket very well. His response to pressure has always been to either roll out of the pocket to his side, or turn his back, and flip the field. He has even been known to straight up walk himself into sacks. His pocket awareness is not very good, never has been and quite frankly he has never had to develop this skill set due to the offense we run. If we compare this to somebody like Brees, one can see a huge difference. Brees sets up his blockers, and he has a very subtle side step that he uses to avoid defenders. He's not very mobile, but he a very good internal timer, and an excellent sense of how to move through a cluttered pocket with efficient movement.

This leads to the main issue, the way our offense is structured. It has held back Wilson's growth as a passer, and football player in general. Our offense never has relied on rhythm, or structure. We've banked on Wilson buying time for long developing routes to get open. We also have relied on the threat of Wilson's mobility to clear out space for the running game. Defensive ends can't crash, because if defensive ends commit too hard on the read option the defense ends up getting burned for big plays. Our offense has always been a clown fiesta reminiscent of a backyard football game.

This kind of football has really hindered Wilson's progress as a player, and it makes it very hard for a QB to get into a rhythm, which is an integral part of the modern passing game in the NFL. It's a surefire way to limit turnovers, but it also is very risky way to play the game. If Seattle doesn't establish the run, or get that big knockout play we end up with an offense that doesn't accomplish anything.

Essentially, Pete, Bevell, and Cable have shown an unwillingness or inability to adjust for the cards they are dealt on offense. This game was a good example. We kept throwing the max protect formations out, and most of the time there were more DB's than receivers out on the field..... Despite our offensive line playing a piss poor game we kept going with our initial game plan. We kept running 5 to 7 step drops, we kept running long developing plays, and in some cases Wilson didn't really even have a check down option. This is the kind of structure that ruins a QB. Wilson isn't playing very good at the moment, but Seattle also has not given him the necessary tools to succeed, or grow as a player. Until our offense starts putting more trust and responsibility in Wilson the QB, this type of frustrating offense will always rear its ugly head.

This is an excellent post!!!

With the exception of the Wilson does not know how to sentence I completely agree, although the description "clown fiesta"is a tad harsh. "If Seattle doesn't establish the run of get that big downfield play we end up with an offense that doesn't accomplish anything." How true and yet there is little variation when the chunk play fails to develop. To me this is coach Bevell's most significant weakness. Generally he can keep things going when they are going but doesn't adjust well to adversity.

The reality of an OLine that is slow to gel or simply not up to their job can be mitigated by check down, quick slant,screen the effective use of tall receivers and both TEs, we will see if Bevell try's to adjust or remains stubborn in his we an make this work, usual mode. When the is playing well and our team's O can create close to an equality of TOP the chunk play style O works but the O needs to become more effective for that to occur. It's that lack of adjustment that is the most frustrating to watch.

In terms of response to the fair observation that the team is winning 70% of the time with our coaching I'd bet that most analysts would disagree with the opinion it is because of the team's O. In fact the team is regarded as a weak offensive team with an exceptional D.

Today it was n,'t until the team went uptempo today that the O started moving the ball with RO and RW's legs and Carson's carries. Until then the same Ol' same OL' was the story of the O. The O was simply awful and inconsistent all day. Your theory was proved by the need to change up tempo.

 

[brimsalabim]

The only blame that I put on Russell is that he should have been camped in Paul Allen's office since last off season demanding the owner do what his office and coaching staff has not. Allen should have had a come to Jesus meeting with Pete and John over their vision for the oline and the offense by now. It's gone on too long.

 

[Lords of Scythia]

You can see Wilson is so much taller than Breese in this picture.

 

[MD5eahawks]

I would give anything to know exactly what they are trying to do vs what we see. Watching the game only nets you half of the story. It could be that it isn't that bad. Maybe a tweak here or there as we are told. OR it could be horrifyingly worse and they (PC) won't admit it.

 

[netskier]

Why is this field not flat? And why is Russ standing uphill of Brees?

 

[MD5eahawks]

Why is this field not flat? And why is Russ standing uphill of Brees?

It's an illusion to make Wilson appear taller than Brees.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

What we are seeing with our offense is an indicative of a few issues. The first problem is the fact that Wilson does not know how to manipulate a pocket very well. His response to pressure has always been to either roll out of the pocket to his side, or turn his back, and flip the field. He has even been known to straight up walk himself into sacks. His pocket awareness is not very good, never has been and quite frankly he has never had to develop this skill set due to the offense we run. If we compare this to somebody like Brees, one can see a huge difference. Brees sets up his blockers, and he has a very subtle side step that he uses to avoid defenders. He's not very mobile, but he a very good internal timer, and an excellent sense of how to move through a cluttered pocket with efficient movement.

This leads to the main issue, the way our offense is structured. It has held back Wilson's growth as a passer, and football player in general. Our offense never has relied on rhythm, or structure. We've banked on Wilson buying time for long developing routes to get open. We also have relied on the threat of Wilson's mobility to clear out space for the running game. Defensive ends can't crash, because if defensive ends commit too hard on the read option the defense ends up getting burned for big plays. Our offense has always been a clown fiesta reminiscent of a backyard football game.

This kind of football has really hindered Wilson's progress as a player, and it makes it very hard for a QB to get into a rhythm, which is an integral part of the modern passing game in the NFL. It's a surefire way to limit turnovers, but it also is very risky way to play the game. If Seattle doesn't establish the run, or get that big knockout play we end up with an offense that doesn't accomplish anything.

Essentially, Pete, Bevell, and Cable have shown an unwillingness or inability to adjust for the cards they are dealt on offense. This game was a good example. We kept throwing the max protect formations out, and most of the time there were more DB's than receivers out on the field..... Despite our offensive line playing a piss poor game we kept going with our initial game plan. We kept running 5 to 7 step drops, we kept running long developing plays, and in some cases Wilson didn't really even have a check down option. This is the kind of structure that ruins a QB. Wilson isn't playing very good at the moment, but Seattle also has not given him the necessary tools to succeed, or grow as a player. Until our offense starts putting more trust and responsibility in Wilson the QB, this type of frustrating offense will always rear its ugly head.

This is the post of the year. It all goes back to Pete and the offense he wants to run, and how it's not a match for the players we've gotten.