USA Today: Hawks OL is a disaster, but Wilson isn't helping

[Sgt. Largent]

It's a double edged sword, and Russell knows it.

What has Pete preached to the offense since day one.................PROTECT THE BALL AT ALL COSTS.

That's why Russell's hesitant to gamble, or just let it fly. This is what most of you are mistaking for Russell being indecisive or not helping out the offense.

He's been taught since day one that it's better to run around and throw the ball away, rather than take risks.

Not absolving Russell at all, I wish he would take more chances and trust his very talented group of receivers to make plays. But a lot of the time he errs on the side of caution, and that comes across and hesitant.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

He's lost a step AND a bunch of self-confidence? Ok........
I look forward to seeing him throw up a 30 burger and having people say "well, it was just the Niners"

Lacking self confidence in his O Line? Absolutely.

 

[Seymour]

It's a double edged sword, and Russell knows it.

What has Pete preached to the offense since day one.................PROTECT THE BALL AT ALL COSTS.

That's why Russell's hesitant to gamble, or just let it fly. This is what most of you are mistaking for Russell being indecisive or not helping out the offense.

He's been taught since day one that it's better to run around and throw the ball away, rather than take risks.

Not absolving Russell at all, I wish he would take more chances and trust his very talented group of receivers to make plays. But a lot of the time he errs on the side of caution, and that comes across and hesitant.

Agree. I've been attempting to make this point for quite some time. Good luck, it seems to not sink in. #1 priority taking care of the ball, means no forced throws, and finding 2nd and 3rd reads that there is no time for.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

He's lost a step AND a bunch of self-confidence? Ok........
I look forward to seeing him throw up a 30 burger and having people say "well, it was just the Niners"

Lacking self confidence in his O Line? Absolutely.

I don't think people have watched the Niners this year, they have a pretty damn good young defense, especially the front seven.

So I think the people who think this is going to be a blowout are in for a shock Sunday. I expect more offensive struggling, and more of a 17-7 type game.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Fair enough, let's just get a win :irishdrinkers:

 

[hawk45]

The second half of 2015 is proof that Wilson can pass from the "pocket", his numbers were sensational ONCE Cable got the O-Line to form a pocket, and then Pass protect their asses off.

THEN 2016 happens, Pete gives Cable the task of re-booting for the Run game, thinking that we maybe had enough Backs to reestablish his run first mantra....Only problem is, Wilson's pocket disintegrates, he gets creamed, hurt, and everything goes back to square one.

The problem with your statement is that you're just assuming 2015's line was good because Wilson was good, and that 2016 Wilson was bad because his OL was bad.

But you aren't remembering it right.

2015's OL wasn't good. It still included Garry Gilliam, Justin Britt at the wrong position, J.R. Sweezy, and Patrick Lewis. Only one of those guys is still here (and the general consensus is that Gilliam and Sweezy were both laughably overpaid). Yet Wilson was great.

2016's OL was worse, yet Wilson still had his great moments. I don't remember anyone complaining about the OL when we beat New England, Philadelphia, or Detroit. Or the Rams and 49ers games that we won.

If you're looking for an explanation, Wilson's good spells fit far better with different gameplanning (i.e. get the ball out quickly) than it does with the talent quality of his OL. But too many of us are ingrained with one simple axiom - "success = good pass protection" - and have never really paid attention to how other factors can mask OL deficiency.

2015 is upholds scutterhawk's argument more than yours IMO. We couldn't pass early in the season, and that coincided with the pattern here of the line not reaching minimum workable threshold until game 4 or 5. Unless you're prepared to deny that pattern which has held every year of Pete's tenure.

The explanation that everyone is blind seems very convenient and smug. I definitely believe that playcalling can mitigate OL play. And I definitely agree that Peyton Manning and Tom Brady can operate with less protection. But they are 2 of the best quarterbacks in NFL history at doing so. Wilson doesn't show the same signs of mastery of the short middle that they do. He's not the same QB.

Add to that, if there is a magic playcalling bean then Pete is determined not to use it. As Sgt has pointed out, he wants to run first and protect the ball. So given our QB and our HC, the only way forward is improved OL play.

Finally, it doesn't enhance the argument to suggest that the blind proles think QBs need 10s in the pocket. Wilson was sacked 3 times vs Green Bay and at least 2 of those were instant jailbreaks. The 2 plays in a row where Glowinski and Joeckel whiffed. The pressure was also instant on the first drive. Also, we could not run the ball at all. Surely we can arrive at agreement that the OL must play better than they did in that game at a minimum.

 

[semiahmoo]

He's lost a step AND a bunch of self-confidence? Ok........
I look forward to seeing him throw up a 30 burger and having people say "well, it was just the Niners"

Lacking self confidence in his O Line? Absolutely.

I don't think people have watched the Niners this year, they have a pretty damn good young defense, especially the front seven.

So I think the people who think this is going to be a blowout are in for a shock Sunday. I expect more offensive struggling, and more of a 17-7 type game.

I was just having this conversation on another board.

We better not take the Niners lightly. Could end up spanked.

And then the real gnashing of teeth around here will commence!

Hopefully the Hawks have a strong bounce-back game but I'm worried. The difference between some success and abysmal failure is pretty thin with the team this season IMO.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

He's lost a step AND a bunch of self-confidence? Ok........
I look forward to seeing him throw up a 30 burger and having people say "well, it was just the Niners"

Lacking self confidence in his O Line? Absolutely.

I don't think people have watched the Niners this year, they have a pretty damn good young defense, especially the front seven.

So I think the people who think this is going to be a blowout are in for a shock Sunday. I expect more offensive struggling, and more of a 17-7 type game.

I was just having this conversation on another board.

We better not take the Niners lightly. Could end up spanked.

And then the real gnashing of teeth around here will commence!

Hopefully the Hawks have a strong bounce-back game but I'm worried. The difference between some success and abysmal failure is pretty thin with the team this season IMO.

No Rueben Foster is the best news I've heard all week. Dude's a beast.

Unless we make some terrible turnovers, I expect us to win going away in the 4th because our defense should handle the Niner offense.

But yeah, anyone looking for our offense to get healthy against the Niners? Nope, I don't see that happening.

 

[pittpnthrs]

You might have missed the part where he wants to play for another team.

The article did say he wanted to return to the Jaguars but that was on Aug 8 (article written) before the Jags ultimately released him on Aug 11. So he's available now.

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2017/08/jaguars-release-branden-albert

Ah. So I'm the one who got snotty and then didn't read the article. My bad.

Then again, the Jags releasing him still doesn't bode well for his abilities right now...

Possibly but I would think that he's probably more serviceable than Odhiambo or Tobin or whoever the Seahawks have at LT currently. Albert was a pro-bowler at one point in his career, his experience at LT could be valuable. Especially if the young guys are still very raw.

Speaking of the Jags, am I the only one thats pissed we passed on Cam Robinson in the draft and one of their castoffs is starting for us right now?

 

[hawk45]

He's lost a step AND a bunch of self-confidence? Ok........
I look forward to seeing him throw up a 30 burger and having people say "well, it was just the Niners"

Lacking self confidence in his O Line? Absolutely.

I don't think people have watched the Niners this year, they have a pretty damn good young defense, especially the front seven.

So I think the people who think this is going to be a blowout are in for a shock Sunday. I expect more offensive struggling, and more of a 17-7 type game.

I was just having this conversation on another board.

We better not take the Niners lightly. Could end up spanked.

And then the real gnashing of teeth around here will commence!

Hopefully the Hawks have a strong bounce-back game but I'm worried. The difference between some success and abysmal failure is pretty thin with the team this season IMO.

No Rueben Foster is the best news I've heard all week. Dude's a beast.

Unless we make some terrible turnovers, I expect us to win going away in the 4th because our defense should handle the Niner offense.

But yeah, anyone looking for our offense to get healthy against the Niners? Nope, I don't see that happening.

It will be a good measuring stick. Every year as we start terribly on the OL the opposing defenses get pumped up in hindsight. If we are as bad as we were last year, then we will make the teams we face early all look like the 85 Bears.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

The second half of 2015 is proof that Wilson can pass from the "pocket", his numbers were sensational ONCE Cable got the O-Line to form a pocket, and then Pass protect their asses off.

THEN 2016 happens, Pete gives Cable the task of re-booting for the Run game, thinking that we maybe had enough Backs to reestablish his run first mantra....Only problem is, Wilson's pocket disintegrates, he gets creamed, hurt, and everything goes back to square one.

The problem with your statement is that you're just assuming 2015's line was good because Wilson was good, and that 2016 Wilson was bad because his OL was bad.

But you aren't remembering it right.

2015's OL wasn't good. It still included Garry Gilliam, Justin Britt at the wrong position, J.R. Sweezy, and Patrick Lewis. Only one of those guys is still here (and the general consensus is that Gilliam and Sweezy were both laughably overpaid). Yet Wilson was great.

2016's OL was worse, yet Wilson still had his great moments. I don't remember anyone complaining about the OL when we beat New England, Philadelphia, or Detroit. Or the Rams and 49ers games that we won.

If you're looking for an explanation, Wilson's good spells fit far better with different gameplanning (i.e. get the ball out quickly) than it does with the talent quality of his OL. But too many of us are ingrained with one simple axiom - "success = good pass protection" - and have never really paid attention to how other factors can mask OL deficiency.

2015 is upholds scutterhawk's argument more than yours IMO. We couldn't pass early in the season, and that coincided with the pattern here of the line not reaching minimum workable threshold until game 4 or 5. Unless you're prepared to deny that pattern which has held every year of Pete's tenure.

The explanation that everyone is blind seems very convenient and smug. I definitely believe that playcalling can mitigate OL play. And I definitely agree that Peyton Manning and Tom Brady can operate with less protection. But they are 2 of the best quarterbacks in NFL history at doing so. Wilson doesn't show the same signs of mastery of the short middle that they do. He's not the same QB.

Add to that, if there is a magic playcalling bean then Pete is determined not to use it. As Sgt has pointed out, he wants to run first and protect the ball. So given our QB and our HC, the only way forward is improved OL play.

Finally, it doesn't enhance the argument to suggest that the blind proles think QBs need 10s in the pocket. Wilson was sacked 3 times vs Green Bay and at least 2 of those were instant jailbreaks. The 2 plays in a row where Glowinski and Joeckel whiffed. The pressure was also instant on the first drive. Also, we could not run the ball at all. Surely we can arrive at agreement that the OL must play better than they did in that game at a minimum.

First of all, I didn't call anyone "blind", so quit putting words in my mouth.

Second, of course the OL needs to improve, and of course some of the pressures were instant. My point is, Pete is continuing to run an offense that naturally leads to a lot of hustle pressures, so he bears part of the responsibility for the result.

 

[hawk45]

First of all, I didn't call anyone "blind", so quit putting words in my mouth.

Second, of course the OL needs to improve, and of course some of the pressures were instant. My point is, Pete is continuing to run an offense that naturally leads to a lot of hustle pressures, so he bears part of the responsibility for the result.

Not really. You get Graham and the RB out there instantly and Wilson is getting rid of the ball before the rush can get to him. Peyton Manning made his hay that way for years and folks never figured it out because they're too slaved to blind, simplistic concepts like "10 seconds of protection = only way to win".
.

I don't know how else to interpret the above other than being dismissive to opposing viewpoints as being blind and facile but okay. Unless "blind" means something other than "blind."

I think we can agree that Pete deliberately went away from last-half of 2015 passing concepts to get back to his protect-the-ball, run-first approach. And that this doesn't help our OL, especially when we can't run on first down and can't throw on obvs passing downs.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Luckily it doesn't matter if the fans take a team lightly, we don't play on the team :2thumbs:

That being said, there's no way they are taking the Niners lightly

 

[mrt144]

First of all, I didn't call anyone "blind", so quit putting words in my mouth.

Second, of course the OL needs to improve, and of course some of the pressures were instant. My point is, Pete is continuing to run an offense that naturally leads to a lot of hustle pressures, so he bears part of the responsibility for the result.

Not really. You get Graham and the RB out there instantly and Wilson is getting rid of the ball before the rush can get to him. Peyton Manning made his hay that way for years and folks never figured it out because they're too slaved to blind, simplistic concepts like "10 seconds of protection = only way to win".
.

I don't know how else to interpret the above other than being dismissive to opposing viewpoints as being blind and facile but okay.

I think we can agree that Pete deliberately went away from last-half of 2015 passing concepts to get back to his protect-the-ball, run-first approach. And that this doesn't help our OL, especially when we can't run on first down and can't throw on obvs passing downs.

Well that's the thing that sucks, doesn't it?

The OL can be helped in the short term by taking the load off of them, or they can stumble and trip their way through the motions of learning how to be better at the specific thing the entire offensive apparatus wants them to be at. It wouldnt surprise me to see a change to the more spread pass concepts if at some point in the season we're under the gun to just win the damn game or miss out on playoffs.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

First of all, I didn't call anyone "blind", so quit putting words in my mouth.

Second, of course the OL needs to improve, and of course some of the pressures were instant. My point is, Pete is continuing to run an offense that naturally leads to a lot of hustle pressures, so he bears part of the responsibility for the result.

Not really. You get Graham and the RB out there instantly and Wilson is getting rid of the ball before the rush can get to him. Peyton Manning made his hay that way for years and folks never figured it out because they're too slaved to blind, simplistic concepts like "10 seconds of protection = only way to win".
.

I don't know how else to interpret the above other than being dismissive to opposing viewpoints as being blind and facile but okay. Unless "blind" means something other than "blind."

I think we can agree that Pete deliberately went away from last-half of 2015 passing concepts to get back to his protect-the-ball, run-first approach. And that this doesn't help our OL, especially when we can't run on first down and can't throw on obvs passing downs.

I called the concept blind and simplistic, not any person.

I do think we are agreeing on how Pete is handling the offense.

 

[SeaChat]

There is nothing wrong with Russell or our Oline. Russell needs to trust himself and his teammates more is the only real problem I can see.
The Oline is holding up and giving Russell time to get rid of the ball, he is just holding on to it to long.
Go back and look at the films, our receivers were getting open and giving Russell plenty of options, he is just seems terrified of throwing an interception.
So instead of taking the chance of doing that, he opts to hold on to the ball and let us get our asses beat that way instead.
That's been my take so far this season.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SeaChat]

There is nothing wrong with Russell or our Oline. Russell needs to trust himself and his teammates more is the only real problem I can see.
The Oline is holding up and giving Russell time to get rid of the ball, he is just holding on to it to long.
Go back and look at the films, our receivers were getting open and giving Russell plenty of options, he just seems terrified of throwing an interception.
So instead of taking the chance of doing that, he opts to hold on to the ball and let us get our asses beat that way instead.
That's been my take so far this season.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Smellyman]

There is nothing wrong with Russell or our Oline. Russell needs to trust himself and his teammates more is the only real problem I can see.
The Oline is holding up and giving Russell time to get rid of the ball, he is just holding on to it to long.
Go back and look at the films, our receivers were getting open and giving Russell plenty of options, he is just seems terrified of throwing an interception.
So instead of taking the chance of doing that, he opts to hold on to the ball and let us get our asses beat that way instead.
That's been my take so far this season.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

LOL

 

[RolandDeschain]

Still think it might be his height that's partially causing him to do this.

Don't worry, I still think he's an amazing QB and still want him on no team other than the Seahawks.

A consistently crappy O-line will kill every QB in the NFL, if it continues long enough. Look at David Carr and Marc Bulger. Height plays a role sometimes with this I'm sure, but I think Russell is, quite simply, hearing footsteps that aren't there more and more often due to how often there ARE footsteps. It's like when you play a horror game and the longer you play, the more antsy you are at the tiniest sound, lol.

 

[Seafan]

And the sky is blue and water is wet.

But RW did promise he'd stop sucking so hopefully the offense will get better soon.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BZAfzhwgpV0/