UPDATED: AVRIL SIGNS With SEATTLE!!!

[ErikG803]

Maybe 49ers/Nnamdi vs Seahawks/Winfield is round number 3 coming up :49ersmall: :179422:

 

[kearly]

I'm content to let the front office worry about numbers...and just enjoy the badass roster they are creating.

Way too much stress and fuss over the cap.

I feel completely the opposite. Figuring out how all the pieces fit together is what makes the offseason fun for me. :th2thumbs:

 

[KK84]

i really hope sf overpays for nnamdi. And i love the idea of a 1 year deal for winfield. even at 36, hes among the best if not the best slot corner in the league

 

[kearly]

As good as this FO is about treating its players right, I don't see how they can cut Clem without impacting that player friendly image they've been so diligent about protecting, especially after they just gave him a decent sized contract the prior off season.

He should make it back by week 6. If he does and doesn't look like his old self then we cut him after '13. But we certainly don't cut him when we don't know whether or not he'll be ok. Besides, the FO has said they want more pass rushers, not the same number of pass rushers we had last year only different.

I still expect a 3 tech in the draft, or a trade for someones backup 3 tech that looks promising. But I have a feeling that Jay Howard and Greg Scruggs have bright futures in front of them as well.

So, you're basically prepared to take a $10 million cap hit ($8.1 million in 2013 + $2.1 million dead money in 2014) and maybe endanger a SB season out of friendliness? The players understand its a business, and I'm pretty sure the moment Clemons went down with that injury he knew perfectly well that his status was up in the air for next season.

I think the only way they keep Clemons is if they are somehow extremely sure that he'll be 100% by week 1. Given that his injury occurred in January, I would consider that an overly optimistic assessment, but we'll see.

 

[JKent82]

Why not keep him on the roster for the 2nd half of season/playoffs? I feel like the benefit of that alone is greater than the savings.

Of course if they're skeptical of his health, cut him.

Because you'd be paying him about $10 million ($8 million in 2013, $2.1 dead money in 2014) for one ACL riddled, 32 year old season. Why do that when there are cheaper, healthier, less risky and probably better alternatives sitting around?

I'd argue the better part assuming they think Clemons is on track. Though having a healthy Abraham though the season would be tough to beat. However not sure they can pull a vet in to be third fiddle after bringing in Avril. Clemons will be happy as hell to play.

It's a pre June 1st cut to keep all the future money paid on this years cap correct? Or can you do it up until final roster cuts?

 

[TDOTSEAHAWK]

As good as this FO is about treating its players right, I don't see how they can cut Clem without impacting that player friendly image they've been so diligent about protecting, especially after they just gave him a decent sized contract the prior off season.

He should make it back by week 6. If he does and doesn't look like his old self then we cut him after '13. But we certainly don't cut him when we don't know whether or not he'll be ok. Besides, the FO has said they want more pass rushers, not the same number of pass rushers we had last year only different.

I still expect a 3 tech in the draft, or a trade for someones backup 3 tech that looks promising. But I have a feeling that Jay Howard and Greg Scruggs have bright futures in front of them as well.

So, you're basically prepared to take a $10 million cap hit ($8.1 million in 2013 + $2.1 million dead money in 2014) and maybe endanger a SB season out of friendliness? The players understand its a business, and I'm pretty sure the moment Clemons went down with that injury he knew perfectly well that his status was up in the air for next season.

I think the only way they keep Clemons is if they are somehow extremely sure that he'll be 100% by week 1. Given that his injury occurred in January, I would consider that an overly optimistic assessment, but we'll see.

The maximum we can save for Clem is 6 million over 2 years.

If we release him this year he is 4 million against the cap this year in dead money.

If we keep him and cut him next year he is 8 million against the cap this year and 2 million next year.

I don't really care about the 2 million against the cap next year - it isn't a significant number in the grand scheme. The question then becomes can we get a more effective pass rusher for 4 million dollars this year if we cut Clem?

I say not. Especially when I want Clem for our play-off run a la Terrell Suggs. Avril and Irvin can start the year at LEO.

 

[FlyingGreg]

I'm content to let the front office worry about numbers...and just enjoy the badass roster they are creating.

Way too much stress and fuss over the cap.

I feel completely the opposite. Figuring out how all the pieces fit together is what makes the offseason fun for me. :th2thumbs:

Yeah, I know. But I'm a recovering former capologist that used to track every transaction and penny, and it became all consuming. Hence my changed stance... :snack:

 

[chihawk]

Dead money basically means money against your cap if you cut a player. So if Seattle released Clemons, it would save only about $3 million this year, but it would save over $9 million next year.

What if they released him after next season? Would they still save over $9 million or would the savings be less?

Also, can unused cap space be rolled over and applied to next year? I thought I heard something like that but wasn't sure how it worked. If so, I could see cutting him this year would make more sense.

 

[Sports Hernia]

I'm content to let the front office worry about numbers...and just enjoy the badass roster they are creating.

Way too much stress and fuss over the cap.

Exactly! John and Pete KNOW what they are doing a heck of a lot better than us average joes on a message board, no offense to anyone but thems are the facts!

 

[JKent82]

Dead money basically means money against your cap if you cut a player. So if Seattle released Clemons, it would save only about $3 million this year, but it would save over $9 million next year.

What if they released him after next season? Would they still save over $9 million or would the savings be less?

Also, can unused cap space be rolled over and applied to next year? I thought I heard something like that but wasn't sure how it worked. If so, I could see cutting him this year would make more sense.

$7.5M in savings vs $9M in 2014. Plus if were cut this year it'd clear $2.3M this year.

Cap space can be rolled.

 

[Rat]

Just saw the numbers on this. Damn. I watch a lot of Lions football, and when I first heard we signed him, I wasn't thrilled about it. He's a good player, but not special, and I was under the impression that he was going to get way overpaid. Can't complain about 2/15.

 

[TDOTSEAHAWK]

Dead money basically means money against your cap if you cut a player. So if Seattle released Clemons, it would save only about $3 million this year, but it would save over $9 million next year.

What if they released him after next season? Would they still save over $9 million or would the savings be less?

Also, can unused cap space be rolled over and applied to next year? I thought I heard something like that but wasn't sure how it worked. If so, I could see cutting him this year would make more sense.

$7.5M in savings vs $9M in 2014. Plus if were cut this year it'd clear $2.3M this year.

Cap space can be rolled.

If his cap space is used by another player - as the OP suggested - it obviously can't be rolled. I don't think anyone is suggesting to cut Clem outright this year and not replace him with another player.

 

[HawksFTW]

If his cap space is used by another player - as the OP suggested - it obviously can't be rolled. I don't think anyone is suggesting to cut Clem outright this year and not replace him with another player.

I just have to say, TDOT has been on a roll lately. Keep it up man, you are speaking truth.


It is amazing how myopic some people get about the nuts and bolts. I have said it before and I will say it again, there is nothing that this front office has done which makes me think they will be caught with their pants down in a year or two. The wheel churning over nonexistent problems around here is getting out of control.

 

[ivotuk]

I would love Winfield! He can teach the rest of our defense how to tackle because he's one of the best.

 

[Sturm]

Brilliant deal. 2 years.

Clemons clone. Ideal LEO. 6'3" 260. 4.51 40. 40 sacks in his career over 5 seasons.

Yea some people were like wtf, but those stats are nasty even with the others on that line in Detroit.

Like Clem - he isn't as well suited to a regular 4-3 DE spot. I see him shining as a LEO.

So why will he shine in the LEO? How do the positions differ?

 

[Happypuppy]

So, you're basically prepared to take a $10 million cap hit ($8.1 million in 2013 + $2.1 million dead money in 2014) and maybe endanger a SB season out of friendliness? The players understand its a business, and I'm pretty sure the moment Clemons went down with that injury he knew perfectly well that his status was up in the air for next season.

I think the only way they keep Clemons is if they are somehow extremely sure that he'll be 100% by week 1. Given that his injury occurred in January, I would consider that an overly optimistic assessment, but we'll see.

Kearly -

Is the cap not expected to increase in '14? I thought was expected to go up to around 26 or so.

The other concern is any injury settlement . I am not a cap guru. Does the settlement number impact the cap if needed, or is it separate ?

 

[Hawks46]

Is it out of the realm of possibility that they keep Clemons this year, ACL and all, then if Avril plays well, ask Clem to restructure. Spread the money out a bit, make it more cap friendly.

If Avril comes in and lights it up, and we get Clem back and he's back to form, it's going to be plain scary for QBs. Like Kearly said, the minute he went down after signing that big contract, he had to know he was in danger of losing some money.

 

[JKent82]

If his cap space is used by another player - as the OP suggested - it obviously can't be rolled. I don't think anyone is suggesting to cut Clem outright this year and not replace him with another player.

I was just letting him know cap space does indeed roll still.

If it looks like he won't recover/has setbacks as we get closer to June 1st it could occur.

I mean personally I'm against cutting him, I think he'd be quite awesome to have going into the playoffs and I feel the FO would avoid doing it. Though I'm sure they're more cold blooded than I think they are haha.

 

[TDOTSEAHAWK]

So why will he shine in the LEO? How do the positions differ?

Playing LDE, which Avril did mostly, means you often play on the TE side. Means if the TE stays in and blocks you basically you are double teamed with the right tackle and have no chance of getting the edge. Moreover, this is often the power running side - Avril is an undersized DE and would have trouble keeping the point of attack against such a double team.

If you were to play RDE, although there is no TE usually, it means your DT is in the 1 technique. This means that the guard can chip on on the DT and protect his LT against inside moves. This allows the LT to exaggerate his kick step to play edge rushers better.

As a LEO (or weak end in a 4-3 under - http://trojanfootballanalysis.com/?p=308), unless the offense is in a two TE set - the LEO will never play on the TE side. More importantly, the DT on the weak side plays a 3-technique. This is important for two reasons:

1) The DT can engage the tackle and guard against the run and if the RT doesn't block down a good DT will essentially penetrate into the backfield and won't be pushed back against all but the best guards. Often the LEOs are left alone against the run, blocked by a FB or trapped. All much better options for undersized DEs than being doubled by an RT and TE.

2) Against the pass, the LG will be engaged against DT which isolates the RT on an island against the LEO with no inside help thus making him playing it much more honest.

For all these reasons, smaller, speedy DEs fit the LEO mold better than classic DEs. Think of the LEO as the weakside backer in a 3-4 (e.g. Demarcus Ware, Terrell Suggs etc).

 

[djb28]

I am getting the same tingle down my spine from this team jut like when I watch Rocky 1 . lol