UPDATED: AVRIL SIGNS With SEATTLE!!!

[HawKnPeppa]

Has seemed like a guy whose success has been a result of the interior pressure brought by the Lions DTs and interior pressure is our biggest lacking probably.

Hopefully his market is proving to not be what he thought it'd be, because I really don't think he's worth what it was speculated he'd get.

Exactly my thoughts. We now have 2 Bruce Irvins, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but this really mandates that we upgrade at DT. IMO, Harbaugh has to be salivating cuz the Niner OL pushed that dude around like a rag doll.

 

[DavidSeven]

Getting rid of talented pass rushers (e.g. Clemons) while you can still afford them is a recipe for disaster IMHO.

If he needs to be cut or restructured a year from now so be it. We wanted depth at the position for 2013. We got it.

 

[Scottemojo]

I got the distinct impression Pete expects Clemons to play this year. Seeing as it was a lack of depth that undid us at his position last year, clemons/Abraham makes sense. If you cut Clemons just to sign Abraham, how much do you really gain?

 

[JerHawk81]

So why will he shine in the LEO? How do the positions differ?

Playing LDE, which Avril did mostly, means you often play on the TE side. Means if the TE stays in and blocks you basically you are double teamed with the right tackle and have no chance of getting the edge. Moreover, this is often the power running side - Avril is an undersized DE and would have trouble keeping the point of attack against such a double team.

If you were to play RDE, although there is no TE usually, it means your DT is in the 1 technique. This means that the guard can chip on on the DT and protect his LT against inside moves. This allows the LT to exaggerate his kick step to play edge rushers better.

As a LEO (or weak end in a 4-3 under - http://trojanfootballanalysis.com/?p=308), unless the offense is in a two TE set - the LEO will never play on the TE side. More importantly, the DT on the weak side plays a 3-technique. This is important for two reasons:

1) The DT can engage the tackle and guard against the run and if the RT doesn't block down a good DT will essentially penetrate into the backfield and won't be pushed back against all but the best guards. Often the LEOs are left alone against the run, blocked by a FB or trapped. All much better options for undersized DEs than being doubled by an RT and TE.

2) Against the pass, the LG will be engaged against DT which isolates the RT on an island against the LEO with no inside help thus making him playing it much more honest.

For all these reasons, smaller, speedy DEs fit the LEO mold better than classic DEs. Think of the LEO as the weakside backer in a 3-4 (e.g. Demarcus Ware, Terrell Suggs etc).

Good summary. With Irvin - I would also add a third point that this alignment helps the Leo to stunt inside. Irvin has a lot of work to do beating a blocker, but the man stunts like a demon.

 

[CANHawk]

I have a very strong feeling Clem will start the year on the PUP. Having Avril and Irvin plus hopefully Clem at a later date is much better than having only Irvin plus nothing for the first half of the year.

Still need that 3-tech though. Hope to see a move up in the draft to get Kawaan Short or another such move.

 

[vin.couve12]

I have a very strong feeling Clem will start the year on the PUP. Having Avril and Irvin plus hopefully Clem at a later date is much better than having only Irvin plus nothing for the first half of the year.

Still need that 3-tech though. Hope to see a move up in the draft to get Kawaan Short or another such move.

I like Short to compete at 3 as well. He can be had in the 3rd or 4th round I think though. I'm hoping Sylvester Williams is there in round 2. I put him right behind Star as an overall DT who can play 1 or 3. Some guys are position specific, but I tend to really like the players who can play multiple positions, personally. If not Williams I'd like to get Short hopefully in the 4th. Might have to in the 3rd depending on how things go.

 

[Boiler]

I have a very strong feeling Clem will start the year on the PUP. Having Avril and Irvin plus hopefully Clem at a later date is much better than having only Irvin plus nothing for the first half of the year.

Still need that 3-tech though. Hope to see a move up in the draft to get Kawaan Short or another such move.

With Short AND Avril on board, you'll have to change your tag line to "No such thing as too many BoilerMakers..."!

 

[LudwigsDrummer]

Maybe he just wants to win a couple of Super Bowls.

Precisely.

 

[NYCoug]

I have a very strong feeling Clem will start the year on the PUP. Having Avril and Irvin plus hopefully Clem at a later date is much better than having only Irvin plus nothing for the first half of the year.

Still need that 3-tech though. Hope to see a move up in the draft to get Kawaan Short or another such move.

Agree on the need for 3-tech, but I wouldn't trade up. I'd sit at 56 and let Brandon Williams fall to me. I'd love to see the live look-in of Williams' house as his phone rings with the Hawks on the clock. He picks it up, as the pick is announced, his family goes nuts. Pete Carroll whispering "you won't have to clean up porta potty's anymore, son" as Williams almost breaks down.

Seriously, this dude cleaned up porta potty's during college summers to help support his family. I don't know about you, but that's probably the last thing I'd be doing in ANY summer. Screw the fam at that point. I can't help but root for him to become the first 335 pound, pass rushing 3-tech in league history. Sounds like the Seahawk thing to do, actually.

Wouldn't be devastated with Short though. I'd actually love a move up if it were the Flynn to Jax, swapping 2nd rounders trade someone mentioned in another thread.

 

[mikeak]

Kaawan Short is projected first rounder.... Just saying

 

[Sports Hernia]

All of these outstanding moves by Schneider and Pete are giving me a

 

[HawKnPeppa]

There should be another Williams in there by the name of Jesse. Not really a pocket collapser, but a good space eater. Playing him next to Mebane should create havoc either directly or indirectly.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Kaawan Short is projected first rounder.... Just saying

So was Ryan Mallett. Just sayin'.

 

[Bakergirl]

9 1/2 sacks last season. I like it. Getting better by the day, can't wait for the draft!

 

[chris98251]

This is year 4 of the plan, we have pieces and I think we max out capabilities this season in hopes of hitting the home run, not crazy but deliberate. We will know within 4 games where we are, if were at the break thru stage or if we miscalulated our surge at the end of last year. If we roll and win a Super Bowl a rash of restructuring will happen as well as contract extensions to help balance cap space going forward. The players for a large part like it here and want to continue winning. They may be willing to get a good payday to keep winning versus a big payday on paper somewhere else to be cut in a year they are about to cash in on it.

 

[kearly]

The maximum we can save for Clem is 6 million over 2 years.

If we release him this year he is 4 million against the cap this year in dead money.

If we keep him and cut him next year he is 8 million against the cap this year and 2 million next year.

I don't really care about the 2 million against the cap next year - it isn't a significant number in the grand scheme. The question then becomes can we get a more effective pass rusher for 4 million dollars this year if we cut Clem?

I say not. Especially when I want Clem for our play-off run a la Terrell Suggs. Avril and Irvin can start the year at LEO.

It's about a $6 million difference between keeping one year and not keeping, but the total savings is not $6 million. It's $13 million. 18-5 = 13

I guess it's a valid point that if we sign Abraham to something like a 1 year $5 million deal, it works out being the same as keeping Clemons for 1 year in terms of cap hit. I'd still prefer the Abraham route though.

I guess the best outcome would be perhaps to approach Clemons with an incentives based restructure. If we can get Clemons cap number way down, at least then he's a superior option to Abraham/Osi in terms of cap space.

 

[kearly]

I got the distinct impression Pete expects Clemons to play this year. Seeing as it was a lack of depth that undid us at his position last year, clemons/Abraham makes sense. If you cut Clemons just to sign Abraham, how much do you really gain?

You would only cut Clemons for Abraham now that Avril is here. Basically, you go with Abraham/Avril next year for the same cap hit (possibly a little less) than Clemons/Avril. Clemons will probably start on the PUP list, and honestly I'd be pretty surprised if he's more than a shell of himself being that age with a bad knee at a speed position. Abraham is old, but he can still play at a very high level, and he's stayed healthy for most of his career. He's a much more likely bet to contribute in 2013 than Clemons, IMO.

Another way to look at it- if Clemons hadn't held the team over the barrel last summer and forced an extension- meaning he'd be a free agent right now- do you think the Seahawks would be signing busted ACL Clemons back over guys like Osi and Abraham?

If you answered "no," then realize that money isn't really standing in the way of doing exactly that tomorrow, since Clemons dead money is a lot smaller than his total cap hit. If you released Clemons and signed Abraham to 1 year, $5 million deal, it ends up being the same as keeping Clemons for 2013 in terms of cap hit. In that sense, they can view Clemons and Abraham and Osi as being on equal footing financially speaking. If cap hit is all the same, it only becomes a question of who you want on your team.

 

[Sarlacc83]

Damn, I'm late to the party, but I am stoked.

 

[NYCoug]

Damn, I'm late to the party, but I am stoked.

Exactly HOW stoked are you Sarlacc? Is it safe to say you're THIS stoked?

 

[Scottemojo]

I got the distinct impression Pete expects Clemons to play this year. Seeing as it was a lack of depth that undid us at his position last year, clemons/Abraham makes sense. If you cut Clemons just to sign Abraham, how much do you really gain?

You would only cut Clemons for Abraham now that Avril is here. Basically, you go with Abraham/Avril next year for the same cap hit (possibly a little less) than Clemons/Avril. Clemons will probably start on the PUP list, and honestly I'd be pretty surprised if he's more than a shell of himself being that age with a bad knee at a speed position. Abraham is old, but he can still play at a very high level, and he's stayed healthy for most of his career. He's a much more likely bet to contribute in 2013 than Clemons, IMO.

Another way to look at it- if Clemons hadn't held the team over the barrel last summer and forced an extension- meaning he'd be a free agent right now- do you think the Seahawks would be signing busted ACL Clemons back over guys like Osi and Abraham?

If you answered "no," then realize that money isn't really standing in the way of doing exactly that tomorrow, since Clemons dead money is a lot smaller than his total cap hit. If you released Clemons and signed Abraham to 1 year, $5 million deal, it ends up being the same as keeping Clemons for 2013 in terms of cap hit. In that sense, they can view Clemons and Abraham and Osi as being on equal footing financially speaking. If cap hit is all the same, it only becomes a question of who you want on your team.

I understand this, but...
I am still in denial that anybody, and i mean anybody can overcome an ACL in 8 months. Everybody keeps saying Adrian Peterson, Adidas has RGIII promising to be back in unreal time, and I keep hearing that this guy wnet to that surgeno who gets people back in a short time, but it feels like bullshit.

But what if Clemons was ready in 11 months? What if week 11 or 12 Clemons was good to go? Imagine Clemons hitting his stride as the playoffs begin. It would kind of be like when Browner came back for the playoffs, he was kick ass ready to go at a time of year when most players are feeling a bit beat up.

To me, Avril indicates a real commitment to the speed at the edges model. I like his prove it deal better than a golden age deal for Abraham, even though I trust Abraham the player a lot more. I won't have a problem with a model using the two of them, but cutting a guy who got hurt in a playoff game where he was not at fault on a field where even his coach complained about conditions feels wrong. forget the money, it just feels wrong. And normally I am a cold hearted bastard.