This is so weird

[TwistedHusky]

As a fan, it has been an odd year. But yesterday made clear I have come to expect that whatever we do will not be enough. With how historically terrible this defense has been, almost nothing this team does seems enough now.

Some of the plays that would normally be good but hardly mattered included:

A 60+ yd FG:
We did not want or need this, as a FG wouldn't be enough. If anything, it felt like a drive that didn't end in a TD and a hope at least the defense could stop the other team from scoring a TD instead.

A fantastic punt downed at the 6:
I knew it would hardly matter. Because the defense would give up the yards and not only allow the team to march up the field...it would probably allow the Rams to make it past where we punted from in the first place.

The long pass to Lockett:
This is where it really hit home. Lockett runs for something like 40 yds...but not a TD. Not even sure I cheered because I was still hanging on to see if we could score once we got the big play. I don't think we did.

The reason for this creeping apathy in small on-field successes?
The defense is so bad, field position gains hardly matter. Moving the ball between the RZs doesn't help. You cannot play field position. Teams with bad starting field position regularly are allowed over the 50 in short order.

I can understand how Wilson is pressing because even as a fan I see this. 5-7 yard gains are not enough now. The worst possible down and distance for us feels like 3rd and 3, because you know we will try to run. Big gains like Lockett's catch don't help unless they lead to TDs.

And god forbid the defense even get an occasional or lucky stop (like the blatant misses Goff had of wide open WRs). Because then our offense shifts urgency and we start running plays that seem more about fixing our %s than getting into the opposing EZ. The moment our defense gets that stop, our offense starts to downshift.

 

[Uncle Si]

the defense gave up 23 points...

If you're feeling apathy, than its simply being disingenuous about being a sports fan.

So, so, so much pillow biting over losses. I get that people need to vent. But venting over and over and over, the same shit, thread after thread (or, starting a new one, for reasons?)

 

[Ramfan128]

Would you rather have had this loss, or:

Lose at home to the Packers (Saints)
Get blown out by the Saints (Bucs)
Lose a game to the Dolphins where you give up 140 yards (Rams)
Lose at home to the Lions (Cardinals)
Get blown out by the Bucs (Packers)

See my point? There is not a team in the NFC that hasn't had a loss very similar (and/or worse) to what Seattle had yesterday.

In fact, our loss to the Niners was almost exactly like the Seahawks loss yesterday. Ended up *only* losing by a TD, but the game never felt that close.

Seahawks will make the playoffs, and they can beat anyone. I'd hope to avoid the Bucs and Rams if I was Seattle, only because they're the only two with defenses that can slow Wilson down IMO. But even then, Seattle can beat anyone.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Si,

The larger issue is that making plays, even great plays, is no longer enough. That is a relevant topic to explore when this team has gone from a potential NFC Division winner to whatever this is.

The point is, you cannot play field position with this team. Most teams use field position battles to set themselves up to score, and keep the opponent from scoring. We did it for years.

For a coach that regularly stressed the importance of field position in strategies and tactics, that seems a reasonable issue.

This is a team that regularly leaves the door open for the other team to walk up the field and score.

I would argue that a lot of drives that led to the Rams punting were the result of the mistakes on the Rams (like penalties) than our defense being effective.

But does that matter?

The larger issue is that we now have a team where great plays often are washed out due to the worst defense ever and a realization that if we do not score the other team likely will.

 

[Uncle Si]

Si,

The larger issue is that making plays, even great plays, is no longer enough. That is a relevant topic to explore when this team has gone from a potential NFC Division winner to whatever this is.

The point is, you cannot play field position with this team. Most teams use field position battles to set themselves up to score, and keep the opponent from scoring. We did it for years.

For a coach that regularly stressed the importance of field position in strategies and tactics, that seems a reasonable issue.

This is a team that regularly leaves the door open for the other team to walk up the field and score.

I would argue that a lot of drives that led to the Rams punting were the result of the mistakes on the Rams (like penalties) than our defense being effective.

But does that matter?

The larger issue is that we now have a team where great plays often are washed out due to the worst defense ever and a realization that if we do not score the other team likely will.

Making plays, great plays, is surely enough, as has been shown in the past.

But making a great field goal, or a strip sack, isn't enough when the QB makes bad throws. Or, isn't enough when the D can't do their job.

The last few games have shown an inability of the Hawks to help each other out. But that's football, and something that almost every team is dealing with right now.

 

[Own The West]

I think you’re depressed. You should seek counseling. Anxiety and depression go hand in hand. There’s been plenty to feel anxious about in 2020, so no surprises there. Not being able to feel good about good things though can be symptomatic of a serious condition.

Take care and get well!

 

[TwistedHusky]

Monday is for venting.

Tuesday is for recognizing what went well and where the positives go from here.


It was clear before the coin flip yesterday this team wouldn't beat the Rams.

So there is nothing to get upset about, just a realization as a fan that great plays are not enough when combined with poor gameplans and execution by the coaching staff. So how do you expect the actual players react if they start reaching the same realizations?

The important thing is we don't see the same mistakes against the Cards.

 

[pittpnthrs]

The last few games have shown an inability of the Hawks to help each other out. But that's football, and something that almost every team is dealing with right now.

I dont know Si. That statement seems to be of one that is accepting of the current state of affairs and refusing to accept the issues. There is so many problems on this team right now that they are actually creating more. The defense and the coaching is so bad that they overshadow the fact that the offensive line is allowing Wilson to get killed which is leading to him locking on one receiver instead of going through progressions, thus the turnovers. Its a huge problem but nobody mentions it because the other issues are more apparent and visible. There needs to be a lot of changes made with this team and organization but nothing ever happens. The owner and the fans are just too stubborn and blind to see and accept it.

 

[Uncle Si]

The last few games have shown an inability of the Hawks to help each other out. But that's football, and something that almost every team is dealing with right now.

I dont know Si. That statement seems to be of one that is accepting of the current state of affairs and refusing to accept the issues. There is so many problems on this team right now that they are actually creating more. The defense and the coaching is so bad that they overshadow the fact that the offensive line is allowing Wilson to get killed which is leading to him locking on one receiver instead of going through progressions, thus the turnovers. Its a huge problem but nobody mentions it because the other issues are more apparent and visible. There needs to be a lot of changes made with this team and organization but nothing ever happens. The owner and the fans are just too stubborn and blind to see and accept it.

Fair enough... I guess I'd venture that the offensive struggles are more to do with any semblance of a running game. This offense had little trouble moving the ball up until, well, yesterday. The Bills turnovers had a lot to do with being pressured, sure, but does a healthy carson or hyde alleviate that pressure?

or do you really think it is the Wilson pushing because if he doesn't, the D will let him down? I'd be willing to accept it's both.

 

[pittpnthrs]

The last few games have shown an inability of the Hawks to help each other out. But that's football, and something that almost every team is dealing with right now.

I dont know Si. That statement seems to be of one that is accepting of the current state of affairs and refusing to accept the issues. There is so many problems on this team right now that they are actually creating more. The defense and the coaching is so bad that they overshadow the fact that the offensive line is allowing Wilson to get killed which is leading to him locking on one receiver instead of going through progressions, thus the turnovers. Its a huge problem but nobody mentions it because the other issues are more apparent and visible. There needs to be a lot of changes made with this team and organization but nothing ever happens. The owner and the fans are just too stubborn and blind to see and accept it.

Fair enough... I guess I'd venture that the offensive struggles are more to do with any semblance of a running game. This offense had little trouble moving the ball up until, well, yesterday. The Bills turnovers had a lot to do with being pressured, sure, but does a healthy carson or hyde alleviate that pressure?

or do you really think it is the Wilson pushing because if he doesn't, the D will let him down? I'd be willing to accept it's both.

I hear you and you make some valid points. I actually thought Collins looked good yesterday. He averaged 4 yards a carry but he only ran the ball 11 times. Why? Guess we'll never know. I still think its the pressure on Wilson thats causing his issues. Why he refused to throw to Metcalf is a head scratcher i'll never understand though. Oh well, hopefully you're right about Carson and Hyde and things will get better with their return.

 

[keasley45]

There's not a lot of mystery here. Beginning of the year, teams had to play us honest because we could run and throw. We had backs that could protect (were versed enough in the offense that they knew where to be, who to block, and in the screen game, what their assignments were). As a result, we were able to keep them guessing. We took advantage of off balance defenses in the passing game - the offensive line performed better because d lines weren't selling out to crush Russ, and playcalling was a bit more diverse because we had more options via run and pass. Since Arizona, we haven't had a healthy backfield. Homer is great in pass pro but honestly the dude otherwise doesn't cut the mustard as an NFL rb in my opinion. Dallas is a rookie and also seems very limited in his vision and knowledge of the offense. Neither were going to shock defenses into doing anything other than bringing the bank against our o-line.

I also think russ and schotty have gotten a bit caught up in the 'passing their way to the mvp' talk and have in too many cases abandoned logical play calls or decisions within a play to hit the big gainer. Case in point, russ throwing the int in the endzone yesterday or the week before, or two weeks before that... twice. In the first five week we were getting 5 passing TD s per game because the offense was opening those opportunities up. Now, because we can't run, the opportunities are fewer and far between. Yet Russ and schotty are still winging it regardless of what the coverages say or the odds dictate. I absolutely believe some of this is just hubris. We absolutely did not have to abandon the run the way we did yesterday. Collins was pretty consistently good. He even brought some decent juice on his carries. But if the gamelan stubbornly assumes week after week ( and stupidly when yiu are playing a top 5 defense) that pass pro is going to suddenly improve to the point, without a running game, we will be able to just drop back and wing the ball around the way we did in weeks 1-5, the wheels are going to come off of this ride pretty quickly. We need to be creative not in creating dime dropping Highlight reals of big plays in the March for an MVP title, but rather use that juice to create a balanced attack that moves the pocket, punishes the blitz, and manufactures rushing yards via russ's legs and a quick hitting pass game. If we do that, the big plays will come again. So much of this sometimes smells of a system based on endless optimism and not just simple logic. Optimism has carried this franchise and our QB to great heights, but at the end ifnthe day, you can be hopeful and strong in the faith that things will eventually work all you want, but if the odds are just too great against you, you will lose. The 'math' on this one is easy. What we are doing COULD be working better, but on defense (much discussed) and now on offense, the desire to stick it through and just 'know' that things will turn is just not intelligent game planning. And in the process, our QB who has of late become a wizard pocket passer and abandoned sandlot play (a style he historically had to rely on) is now trying to play within the system and is getting the life beat out of him.

But 'if we just keep believing and keep fighting...' we will lose to Arizona and any other team the caliber of which we can expect to see in the playoffs... in round one of the playoffs.

Stop chasing TDs, start chasing 1st downs.
Stop forcing pass plays that take too long to develop.
Stop dropping straight back and hoping for better protection

Start manufacturing runs
Start moving the pocket
Start incorporating the screen game
Start using Russ's legs when we can

All of this has been true since the 4th quarter against Arizona a few Sundays ago and we still haven't figured it out.

Go Hawks!

 

[John63]

There's not a lot of mystery here. Beginning of the year, teams had to play us honest because we could run and throw. We had backs that could protect (were versed enough in the offense that they knew where to be, who to block, and in the screen game, what their assignments were). As a result, we were able to keep them guessing. We took advantage of off balance defenses in the passing game - the offensive line performed better because d lines weren't selling out to crush Russ, and playcalling was a bit more diverse because we had more options via run and pass. Since Arizona, we haven't had a healthy backfield. Homer is great in pass pro but honestly the dude otherwise doesn't cut the mustard as an NFL rb in my opinion. Dallas is a rookie and also seems very limited in his vision and knowledge of the offense. Neither were going to shock defenses into doing anything other than bringing the bank against our o-line.

I also think russ and schotty have gotten a bit caught up in the 'passing their way to the mvp' talk and have in too many cases abandoned logical play calls or decisions within a play to hit the big gainer. Case in point, russ throwing the int in the endzone yesterday or the week before, or two weeks before that... twice. In the first five week we were getting 5 passing TD s per game because the offense was opening those opportunities up. Now, because we can't run, the opportunities are fewer and far between. Yet Russ and schotty are still winging it regardless of what the coverages say or the odds dictate. I absolutely believe some of this is just hubris. We absolutely did not have to abandon the run the way we did yesterday. Collins was pretty consistently good. He even brought some decent juice on his carries. But if the gamelan stubbornly assumes week after week ( and stupidly when yiu are playing a top 5 defense) that pass pro is going to suddenly improve to the point, without a running game, we will be able to just drop back and wing the ball around the way we did in weeks 1-5, the wheels are going to come off of this ride pretty quickly. We need to be creative not in creating dime dropping Highlight reals of big plays in the March for an MVP title, but rather use that juice to create a balanced attack that moves the pocket, punishes the blitz, and manufactures rushing yards via russ's legs and a quick hitting pass game. If we do that, the big plays will come again. So much of this sometimes smells of a system based on endless optimism and not just simple logic. Optimism has carried this franchise and our QB to great heights, but at the end ifnthe day, you can be hopeful and strong in the faith that things will eventually work all you want, but if the odds are just too great against you, you will lose. The 'math' on this one is easy. What we are doing COULD be working better, but on defense (much discussed) and now on offense, the desire to stick it through and just 'know' that things will turn is just not intelligent game planning. And in the process, our QB who has of late become a wizard pocket passer and abandoned sandlot play (a style he historically had to rely on) is now trying to play within the system and is getting the life beat out of him.

But 'if we just keep believing and keep fighting...' we will lose to Arizona and any other team the caliber of which we can expect to see in the playoffs... in round one of the playoffs.

Stop chasing TDs, start chasing 1st downs.
Stop forcing pass plays that take too long to develop.
Stop dropping straight back and hoping for better protection

Start manufacturing runs
Start moving the pocket
Start incorporating the screen game
Start using Russ's legs when we can

All of this has been true since the 4th quarter against Arizona a few Sundays ago and we still haven't figured it out.

Go Hawks!

Great post except I believe PC has more to do with the changes starting in AZ. he has said he hates short passes. Now the quesiont is will he let them go back to what was working.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Nothing weird to me, other than the defense only gave up 23 point.

It's the same as it's been all year, if Russell plays lights out and we score 30+ points? We'll probably win. If he makes mistakes and struggles, we lose.

What was crystal clear about yesterday's game is Russell's success is directly tied to Carson and the run game. He's pressing something fierce with no run game to get the defense to back off and allow him the space and confidence to throw the ball on time, accurately and to the correct receivers.

So IMO the answer going forward is not the defense, it's not even Russell, it's doing everything they can to get Carson, Hyde and Penny healthy. Until that happens, what we've seen the past two weeks is going to be the norm, not the exception.

 

[John63]

Nothing weird to me, other than the defense only gave up 23 point.

It's the same as it's been all year, if Russell plays lights out and we score 30+ points? We'll probably win. If he makes mistakes and struggles, we lose.

What was crystal clear about yesterday's game is Russell's success is directly tied to Carson and the run game. He's pressing something fierce with no run game to get the defense to back off and allow him the space and confidence to throw the ball on time, accurately and to the correct receivers.

So IMO the answer going forward is not the defense, it's not even Russell, it's doing everything they can to get Carson, Hyde and Penny healthy. Until that happens, what we've seen the past two weeks is going to be the norm, not the exception.

That is one way to look a tit, what is painfully clear to me is the in ability of our HC and OC to create a game plan or system that can work around the fact we have not run game. Other teams can do it, but for some reason we can't. We have done it before but for some reason this year they either can't or don't want to. Also, we regressed back into the try to run, and throw long and wait till 5 or less on the clock to snap it again. Something we were not doing in the first 5 games. This smells of PC.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Nothing weird to me, other than the defense only gave up 23 point.

It's the same as it's been all year, if Russell plays lights out and we score 30+ points? We'll probably win. If he makes mistakes and struggles, we lose.

What was crystal clear about yesterday's game is Russell's success is directly tied to Carson and the run game. He's pressing something fierce with no run game to get the defense to back off and allow him the space and confidence to throw the ball on time, accurately and to the correct receivers.

So IMO the answer going forward is not the defense, it's not even Russell, it's doing everything they can to get Carson, Hyde and Penny healthy. Until that happens, what we've seen the past two weeks is going to be the norm, not the exception.

That is one way to look a tit, what is painfully clear to me is the in ability of our HC and OC to create a game plan or system that can work around the fact we have not run game. Other teams can do it, but for some reason we can't. We have done it before but for some reason this year they either can't or don't want to. Also, we regressed back into the try to run, and throw long and wait till 5 or less on the clock to snap it again. Something we were not doing in the first 5 games. This smells of PC.

The gameplanning and especially in game adjustments/decision making has definitely compounded what we're talking about.

We were running the ball well enough in the first quarter yesterday with Collins. But when we get behind, it seems Russell and Schotty panic and think that means it's time to just go pass happy.

Down by 17 points in Buffalo? Sure, gotta start throwing it every down. But there was no point in yesterday's game that called for that drastic of a gameplan/playcalling abandonment.

 

[John63]

Nothing weird to me, other than the defense only gave up 23 point.

It's the same as it's been all year, if Russell plays lights out and we score 30+ points? We'll probably win. If he makes mistakes and struggles, we lose.

What was crystal clear about yesterday's game is Russell's success is directly tied to Carson and the run game. He's pressing something fierce with no run game to get the defense to back off and allow him the space and confidence to throw the ball on time, accurately and to the correct receivers.

So IMO the answer going forward is not the defense, it's not even Russell, it's doing everything they can to get Carson, Hyde and Penny healthy. Until that happens, what we've seen the past two weeks is going to be the norm, not the exception.

That is one way to look a tit, what is painfully clear to me is the in ability of our HC and OC to create a game plan or system that can work around the fact we have not run game. Other teams can do it, but for some reason we can't. We have done it before but for some reason this year they either can't or don't want to. Also, we regressed back into the try to run, and throw long and wait till 5 or less on the clock to snap it again. Something we were not doing in the first 5 games. This smells of PC.

The gameplanning and especially in game adjustments/decision making has definitely compounded what we're talking about.

We were running the ball well enough in the first quarter yesterday with Collins. But when we get behind, it seems Russell and Schotty panic and think that means it's time to just go pass happy.

Down by 17 points in Buffalo? Sure, gotta start throwing it every down. But there was no point in yesterday's game that called for that drastic of a gameplan/playcalling abandonment.

agreed just not sure how much of that is Wilson, I did not see much audibling over the last 4 games. Which again makes me wonder.

Over the last 4 games I have seen a lot fo go patterns. little quick passing. I have seen lots of snapping with the lock under 5 little uptempo, little screens. Just seems like a step back to the old offense.

 

[BamKam]

Russell does not have to play perfect in order for the Seahawks to win. If he plays even a "decent" game we are in a much better position to win. Same with Buffalo. I am happy Russ is our QB but he has played like a mid to low tier QB the past few weeks and hopefully he snaps out of it. Now that the MVP is distantly away from him maybe that will take some of the pressure off.