The case for Brian Schottenheimer

Spin Doctor

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This is not the first time I've heard the suggestion of a Schotty return to Seattle. IIRC, he had the offense really humming at one point, but when opposing DC's started figuring out what he was doing, he wasn't able to counter adjust. That would be my only concern. I'm sure Mr. I'm limited had something to do with it as well.
This has been an issue with Russ since 2020 no matter who he's coached under. He went from being a playmaker to a QB that is really only a game manager at this point. Teams started adopting the Fangio defense and created an NFL where the passing game was struggling. Teams are having issues dealing with the disguised coverages and pass rush that is coming from unpredictable angles.

We also have to understand that Russ was really pushing the whole "let russ cook" thing pretty hard. Schottenheimer was mostly an old school pound it Air Coryell guy before he came here. Russell Wilson was also putting pressure on Carroll and the FO as we saw when he finally started trying to force his way out of here.

I'd dare say that Schottenheimer is the best offensive coordinator that we've had here in Seattle since Holmgren. I'd say the great thing about Schottenheimer is he is great at building the visions of his HC and working around his players strengths and weaknesses. In Seattle he came across like someone that was agnostic when it came to systems and schemes. One game he'd come out looking like a WCO, the next it would be back to the 70s with heavy doses of running and play action passes that attacked downfield.

I think he'd prove to the a great asset to MacDonald in trying to establish credibility. Both MacDonald and Schottenheimer also have the same no-nonsense, tough approach to coaching. Schottenheimer is also known for being a great QB coach.

I think he'd fit this team perfectly.
 

Spin Doctor

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I think we can do better than Schotty
Sure, we could do better than Schotty --- but having an experienced coach is something that we're missing. This guy knows does know how to pilot an offense and he does know how to coach up QB's. He's also not likely to get poached right away either.
 
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keasley45

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Scheissen = Shit, in German
Hammer = you know what a hammer is
Brian Scheissenhammer = Not what I want in an OC

Ha.

Its Sheisse.

If you look at Russ's stats under Schotty, he had the 2 best years of his career in 2019 and 2020.

And hammer in german usually means 'cool' in most contexts. So in a funny stwist, what you wrote could translate to cool sh!+.

Russ was always bad on 3rd down passing but even in that area he greatly improved in 2019 under Schotty. That year, many of his passing stats were the best or near the best they'd ever been. And that is saying a ton because he no longer used his legs the way he did early in his career

Rushing wise, we were 1st in the league under Schotty his first year and 6th his 2nd year. We dropped to 12th in the LRC year but were still effective, just out of balance in a pass happy attack.

Folks slam Schotty for the wildcard game against Dallas. That wasnt anymore his doing than it was Waldron's to have us run 95% of the time against NO in Geno's first start the year Russ was injured.

They also slam him for the wildcard loss against the Rams in 2020. That was the game Russ played almost as badly as he did in the NFC champiosnhip game in 2014. The plays were there throughout the game. We just didnt hit them. Kurt Warner broke the game down pretty thoroughly that offseason.

Our offense was actually pretty outstanding under Schotty from a schematic perspective.
 
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keasley45

keasley45

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This has been an issue with Russ since 2020 no matter who he's coached under. He went from being a playmaker to a QB that is really only a game manager at this point. Teams started adopting the Fangio defense and created an NFL where the passing game was struggling. Teams are having issues dealing with the disguised coverages and pass rush that is coming from unpredictable angles.

We also have to understand that Russ was really pushing the whole "let russ cook" thing pretty hard. Schottenheimer was mostly an old school pound it Air Coryell guy before he came here. Russell Wilson was also putting pressure on Carroll and the FO as we saw when he finally started trying to force his way out of here.

I'd dare say that Schottenheimer is the best offensive coordinator that we've had here in Seattle since Holmgren. I'd say the great thing about Schottenheimer is he is great at building the visions of his HC and working around his players strengths and weaknesses. In Seattle he came across like someone that was agnostic when it came to systems and schemes. One game he'd come out looking like a WCO, the next it would be back to the 70s with heavy doses of running and play action passes that attacked downfield.

I think he'd prove to the a great asset to MacDonald in trying to establish credibility. Both MacDonald and Schottenheimer also have the same no-nonsense, tough approach to coaching. Schottenheimer is also known for being a great QB coach.

I think he'd fit this team perfectly.

In 2018 we had the 18th ranked offense thebfirst year he coordinated for us.

2019 we jumped to 8th.

2020 was hijacked by Russ in his MVP chase and wen dropped again, but managed to finish at 12-4 despite having an historically bad defense. Russ fans like to credit him with the wins, but it was the year his game was entirely solved and he has been a shell of himself since.

The 2019 year was really the single most balanced offense we have ever had in Seattle, and we accomplished it without superstars at any one position outside of Russ.

Had things remained on the track Schotty had us on and we not imploded in the pursuit of individual accolades for the QB, we would have avoided the crap show that has ensued on that side of the ball since (one OC who was fired and not even in the league and another likely on his way out).

Schotty was the unfortunate collateral damage from the spiraling Russ fiasco between 2020 and 2021.
 

Kamcussionator

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Or we could just run with Grubb again, skip the learning phase, and be a playoff team again for the next 10 years.

Grubb is fine.
Our OL needs a LG, then it will be fine.

We fielded a top 10 defense and a middling offense in year 1 of a new staff. Considering defenses take a year to install and offenses take 3, that's pretty remarkable. Top 5 D and a top 10 O are obtainable goals for next year.

The future is bright!
 
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keasley45

keasley45

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Or we could just run with Grubb again, skip the learning phase, and be a playoff team again for the next 10 years.

Grubb is fine.
Our OL needs a LG, then it will be fine.

We fielded a top 10 defense and a middling offense in year 1 of a new staff. Considering defenses take a year to install and offenses take 3, that's pretty remarkable. Top 5 D and a top 10 O are obtainable goals for next year.

The future is bright!

What evidence do you have that Grubb is fine? I mean that sincerely.

From my perspective, if he was, his HC wouldnt constantly be asked whether he is on the same page as OC or whether he agrees with situational playcalls, overall coaching, or play design.

Grubb has put a ton of WTF plays and situational decision-making on tape. And that's before you even look at what the qb did on a play. And things have gotten worse as thr season has progressed.
 

Fresno Hawk

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Sure, we could do better than Schotty --- but having an experienced coach is something that we're missing. This guy knows does know how to pilot an offense and he does know how to coach up QB's. He's also not likely to get poached right away either.
Well that's the thing. He is experienced but that fact that no one is knocking at his door to be their play caller should tell you something. Not getting poached isn't necessarily a good thing. If we have coaches getting the attention about the possibility of getting poached that usually means he did good things for the team.
 

Fresno Hawk

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Who would you recommend?
I think the first thing is to see who exactly is available. Now IMHO this team is set up to win now. The most glaring weakness is LG,C. These 2 positions can easily be upgraded in the offseason. Add the right coordinator who can play to the strengths of the offense and the hawks can easily have a top ten offense. Geno will be a Hawk next year, I don't see the team getting rid of him yet. I feel if the Hawks do these things they should be successful next year.
 
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keasley45

keasley45

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Well that's the thing. He is experienced but that fact that no one is knocking at his door to be their play caller should tell you something. Not getting poached isn't necessarily a good thing. If we have coaches getting the attention about the possibility of getting poached that usually means he did good things for the team.
He did get attention in 19 and was in the spotlight in 2020 when we started the season as the hottest offense in the league. Things cooled over the 2nd half of the season through no fault of his own and then he was cut to make room for Russ's whishlist hire.

He was more than capable here.
 

Ozzy

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In 2018 we had the 18th ranked offense thebfirst year he coordinated for us.

2019 we jumped to 8th.

2020 was hijacked by Russ in his MVP chase and wen dropped again, but managed to finish at 12-4 despite having an historically bad defense. Russ fans like to credit him with the wins, but it was the year his game was entirely solved and he has been a shell of himself since.

The 2019 year was really the single most balanced offense we have ever had in Seattle, and we accomplished it without superstars at any one position outside of Russ.

Had things remained on the track Schotty had us on and we not imploded in the pursuit of individual accolades for the QB, we would have avoided the crap show that has ensued on that side of the ball since (one OC who was fired and not even in the league and another likely on his way out).

Schotty was the unfortunate collateral damage from the spiraling Russ fiasco between 2020 and 2021.
Wait a minute in 2020 we had no run game and a bad defense and Russ had a monster year but Russ doesn’t get credit. You use those same excuses for Geno for why he’s near league worst in most categories as insurmountable? Yeah I love most of your takes but your Geno/Russ stuff is so biased and contradictory it’s hard to take in.

Russ was completely figured out in 2020 with a terrible defense had 42 touchdowns, 13 picks, almost 5,000 total yards and he wasn’t a reason we did well? We weren’t even a great rushing team without Wilson’s 500+ yards That is hilarious after all the Geno points you’ve made this year. Yeah I think it’s fair to quit saying the anti Geno crowd is just biased and the pro Geno crowd is completely objective lol.

Love you man but saying Russ was figured out in 2020, didn’t play well and wasn’t why we won games when his stats beat Geno’s stats from this year and last year combined in some ways is wild.
 

Fresno Hawk

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I also think if we keep Geno, this team needs a proven OC with better success than Schotty. Geno is a vet, and he is big headed. So he needs someone who can come in here and hold him accountable, as well as the rest of the players on offense. The way Schotty let Russ run all over him, I just dont see him commanding the respect of the offensive players. Especially DK.
 
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keasley45

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Wait a minute in 2020 we had no run game and a bad defense and Russ had a monster year but Russ doesn’t get credit. You use those same excuses for Geno for why he’s near league worst in most categories as insurmountable? Yeah I love most of your takes but your Geno/Russ stuff is so biased and contradictory it’s hard to take in.

Russ was completely figured out in 2020 with a terrible defense had 42 touchdowns, 13 picks, almost 5,000 total yards and he wasn’t a reason we did well? We weren’t even a great rushing team without Wilson’s 500+ yards That is hilarious after all the Geno points you’ve made this year. Yeah I think it’s fair to quit saying the anti Geno crowd is just biased and the pro Geno crowd is completely objective lol.

Love you man but saying Russ was figured out in 2020, didn’t play well and wasn’t why we won games when his stats beat Geno’s stats from this year and last year combined in some ways is wild.

Ozzy.

One qb has shown since that year that he cant run a traditional offense and his game is entirely solved. This is 3 years on and when you watch the Steelers play, the playbook is 100% the restrained version of Schotty's 2nd half 2020 season - the offense that works around his deficiencies and incorporates no designed runs and leans on the ground game.

Russ had Schotty who beyond doubt was calling offense that worked. Its just that Russ was beyond debate not running it. Just like he didnt run Hackett's and he couldnt run Peyton's. Geno has had... .... ..... one coach who isntba coach anymore and Grubb.

We had no running game in 20 because we didnt run - i dont know how its debatable guven how many press conferences saw Pete all but demanding we run more. Carson getting hurt didnt help, but it wasnt a case of the run game not being good.

Carson averaged 4.8 ypc over 12 games
Carlos Hyde averaged 4.4
Dj Dallas , Homer, and Collins threw in another 3.8

When was the last time we had a backfield that posted numbers like that? Answer? That year.

How YOU can say that Russ wasnt the same after that year ... i dont know. I can post the Athletic Article where GMs werensaying he wasnt even a top 15 qb anymore. There's literally historical record of it. Russ went off script to a reficilulous level that year and burned teams who were playing the run and leaving holes in coverage over the top. Once they stopped playing us that way because we insisted on playing hero ball and not executing a balanced attack, we were done for.

As to Geno vs Russ? Geno has had Waldron and Grubb as OCs. He ran every bit of a crap Waldron playbook and according to Grubb, has a grasp of 100% of his playbook. Had Geno ever had the benefit of a competent OC, who knows how much better his performance would have been.

Anecdotally, Russ, with Peyton, ran a truncated playbook that incorprated the highest rate of checkdowns in the league last year. And after a year, Peyton benched and then cut him in part because not only coukd he not process the playbook, but the team finished 31st in percent of drives that ended in 3 and outs.

Peyton with a journeyman like Jameis Winston was FAR more successful, with Winston posting career best numbers and helping to keep the team competitive. So if you want to compare apples to apples with Russ vs a 'journeyman' qb (a label im sure youd tag to Geno) in a bonafied REAL NFL offense under the same OC, compare Russ with Peyton to Winston with Peyton. Its pretty eye opening. Its also enlightening to see what Bo Nix has been able to do in the offense Russ struggled in. But keeping it in Seattle...

Shoot, compare Russ running Waldron's offense to Geno running it his first year. We didnt even look like the same team. And as much as the GeNo crowd wants to fault him for the midseason regression, the fact that Waldron isnt even a coach anymore should tell you something about why that was.

We will see (hopefully) what Geno can do with someone AT LEAST as competent as Schotty next year.
 

Spin Doctor

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Well that's the thing. He is experienced but that fact that no one is knocking at his door to be their play caller should tell you something. Not getting poached isn't necessarily a good thing. If we have coaches getting the attention about the possibility of getting poached that usually means he did good things for the team.
He also is the only offensive coach we've had that is still coordinating. He consistently finds jobs for a reason. Is he the next hot play caller? No, but he is able to adapt modern NFL trends and execute them. He's the type of guy that adheres to a coaches vision and makes it happen.

Is Schottenheimer the best OC in the league? No, is he a solid coordinator? I'd say so. In a team where you have no veteran leadership, having a guy like Schottenheimer is pretty important.
 

Ozzy

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I and now many see the Denver situation much differently especially with him playing well this year.

But again while I disagree with much of what you said i appreciate you not making it personal like many do with this debate. I’m watching a show with my wife and she will kill me if I spend a ton of time on this post right now
 
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keasley45

keasley45

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I also think if we keep Geno, this team needs a proven OC with better success than Schotty. Geno is a vet, and he is big headed. So he needs someone who can come in here and hold him accountable, as well as the rest of the players on offense. The way Schotty let Russ run all over him, I just dont see him commanding the respect of the offensive players. Especially DK.
I agree that Geno needs a string hand to keep him in line. I just thought Schotty was good at it and actually think he got canned because he wanted to hold Russ accountable and Pete had to decide between Russ and his OC.
 
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keasley45

keasley45

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I and now many see the Denver situation much differently especially with him playing well this year.

But again while I disagree with much of what you said i appreciate you not making it personal like many do with this debate. I’m watching a show with my wife and she will kill me if I spend a ton of time on this post right now
I'm in the same boat. Netflix night...

Feeling is mututal, btw.
 
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