Sydney Jones PFF Grade.

[Flyingsquad23]

Those numbers don’t attribute the busted play as they only credited him with one TD given up. And I watched every play, where I witnessed him trailing the wr and also giving up first down catches while being 5 yards away so sorry you missed that.
As I posted I like jones and I’m happy to see him get in the action. I just don’t think this particular game showed the dramatic improvement some here are claiming.

 

[Northwest Seahawk]

I think worrying about a PFF grade on Sydney's first start coming over in last minute trade right before the season is asinine. Sorry i couldn't be more diplomatic.

 

[chris98251]

The trouble with this place now is very few can think for themselves and need someone to tell them what to see, if you can't see the difference in a guy that is tentative and a guy trusts himself who will challenge a WR at CB then you need to quit commenting on the good and bad based on another persons opinion that you present as your own. Most these guys don't know coverage, and hand offs, they have never manned up on someone knowing that they are players also and the war is the prize, battles will happen on every play and you don't win them all. That other guy gets paid to beat you.

Flowers recognition and reaction are slower, he gives room because he doesn't trust his instincts yet and may never, he is used to facing the QB not tracking a receiver and finding the ball in flight.

Jones is the opposite, he is still learning the defense that Flowers has been in a couple seasons, it took the LOB two years to get it.

 

[A-Dog]

Pete all but admitted that wheel route busted coverage was on Adams not Jones to Hugh Millen on 950 yesterday. PFF likely is clueless in that situation is my guess.

It wasn't "my interpretation he all but admitted it." It was obvious and everyone on the show said he just admitted it, Millen included. I just agree with the conclusion.

Well Hugh, Rob, you, and whoever else was on that show were wrong. Not surprising when the pundits are all working off of ego-driven agendas. Marty F. Brown explains here:

https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/gm-report/analysis-seahawks-cover-3-coverage-bust-vs-49ers-explained

 

[Flyingsquad23]

The trouble with this place now is very few can think for themselves and need someone to tell them what to see, if you can't see the difference in a guy that is tentative and a guy trusts himself who will challenge a WR at CB then you need to quit commenting on the good and bad based on another persons opinion that you present as your own. Most these guys don't know coverage, and hand offs, they have never manned up on someone knowing that they are players also and the war is the prize, battles will happen on every play and you don't win them all. That other guy gets paid to beat you.

Flowers recognition and reaction are slower, he gives room because he doesn't trust his instincts yet and may never, he is used to facing the QB not tracking a receiver and finding the ball in flight.

Jones is the opposite, he is still learning the defense that Flowers has been in a couple seasons, it took the LOB two years to get it.

What poster are you referring to?

 

[toffee]

The trouble with this place now is very few can think for themselves and need someone to tell them what to see, if you can't see the difference in a guy that is tentative and a guy trusts himself who will challenge a WR at CB then you need to quit commenting on the good and bad based on another persons opinion that you present as your own. Most these guys don't know coverage, and hand offs, they have never manned up on someone knowing that they are players also and the war is the prize, battles will happen on every play and you don't win them all. That other guy gets paid to beat you.

Flowers recognition and reaction are slower, he gives room because he doesn't trust his instincts yet and may never, he is used to facing the QB not tracking a receiver and finding the ball in flight.

Jones is the opposite, he is still learning the defense that Flowers has been in a couple seasons, it took the LOB two years to get it.

I always suspect that Flowers' problems were 75% mental, and 25% skills. He didn't seen to have the confidence to challenge, or lost sight of the WR. He therefore picked the safest way, to him that is, to kept his eyes on the WR and be ready to tackle and hope for a fumble if he tackle hard enough. In the past couple of games, for whatever reason, he wasn't even close enough to the WR to make that immediate tackle upon reception.

 

[Shanegotyou11]

ukeface:

I swore some of these same people on here would quote PFF for Ifedi and Tre.

So, you then admit that PFF is of dubious validity based on their tendency to grade Ifedi and Tre above what their performance seems to indicate?

Glad we hashed that out and that you agree.

Go be a lawyer or a politician. It would fit your style.

Go be something that doesn't require you to make cohesive points. It would fit yours. :2thumbs:

I will gladly debate you in any court room. You spin half truths with lies to fit your stories. You think you are smarter then you are. One of the narcissistic people on this board.

 

[Shanegotyou11]

Week 4-

37.5.

I have seen people saying he did good and he looked very good. That is atrocious. He was the worst defender on the field. Hopefully he gets better.

Blink if your tre flowers

Im just being honest. Dont dick ride a dude with 37.5 PFF rating is my issue. I hope he does way better. I have no "vendetta" with any hawks player unless they do something off the field that is atrocious.

 

[Shanegotyou11]

The trouble with this place now is very few can think for themselves and need someone to tell them what to see, if you can't see the difference in a guy that is tentative and a guy trusts himself who will challenge a WR at CB then you need to quit commenting on the good and bad based on another persons opinion that you present as your own. Most these guys don't know coverage, and hand offs, they have never manned up on someone knowing that they are players also and the war is the prize, battles will happen on every play and you don't win them all. That other guy gets paid to beat you.

Flowers recognition and reaction are slower, he gives room because he doesn't trust his instincts yet and may never, he is used to facing the QB not tracking a receiver and finding the ball in flight.

Jones is the opposite, he is still learning the defense that Flowers has been in a couple seasons, it took the LOB two years to get it.

Shaq still your star corner bro? You know how you talked down anyone who said he was a average corner at best. Now you say people need to think for themselves.

I am glad you were not the FO on Shaq for sure.

 

[Shanegotyou11]

This board has become a hypocritical board more then it used to be.

When stating stats about a player they hate, they use PFF grades.

When they are defending a player who they like who struggled, they say "PFF is not right". Its odd.

Again I hope Jones rocks out. I just wanna win. I am not a fan of a player over my teams.

 

[getnasty]

If Trey Flowers played the same game that Sydney Jones just did people would be outraged.

Nope. Jones while getting burned a couple times, still made more plays in one game than Flowers did in 3 games.

I don’t get the “white knighting” for a severely underperforming player (see Flowers).
Look, I’m sure he (Flowers) is a wonderful human being and a nice guy, I don’t doubt that for a minute…. But, his number 1 job is coverage, something he is piss poor at.

I dont get handing out David Blowies to a guy that comes in and plays worse then Flowers.

If you ask me who i want starting next week i would tell you Jones hands down but at the same time he was horrible yet because he's not Tre Flowers people think he balled out.

 

[Sports Hernia]

If Trey Flowers played the same game that Sydney Jones just did people would be outraged.

Nope. Jones while getting burned a couple times, still made more plays in one game than Flowers did in 3 games.

I don’t get the “white knighting” for a severely underperforming player (see Flowers).
Look, I’m sure he (Flowers) is a wonderful human being and a nice guy, I don’t doubt that for a minute…. But, his number 1 job is coverage, something he is piss poor at.

I dont get handing out David Blowies to a guy that comes in and plays worse then Flowers.

If you ask me who i want starting next week i would tell you Jones hands down but at the same time he was horrible yet because he's not Tre Flowers people think he balled out.

He didn’t play worse than Flowers though. Nobody here is saying that Jones didn’t make mistakes.
It’s just that Flowers set the bar so low anyone can step over it.

You are also comparing 1 game of mediocre at best play by Jones vs 3 years plus of craptastic play from Flowers.
Shouldn’t Jones be given the opportunity to be as bad as Flowers?

 

[AgentDib]

When stating stats about a player they hate, they use PFF grades. When they are defending a player who they like who struggled, they say "PFF is not right". Its odd.

Again I hope Jones rocks out. I just wanna win. I am not a fan of a player over my teams.

I do agree with your last sentiment and would be fine starting Poona Ford at left corner if that led to us winning.

My objection to PFF grades is that they represent themselves as something more useful than they are. Due to the level of guesswork and black box nature they vary between 100% correct and 0% correct, and that makes them largely unhelpful. Including them in a discussion is like saying your uncle thought a player did well/poorly, and that's not interesting to discuss compared to whether you thought he did well or poorly and why.

One factor that should be considered is that DJ Reed moved back to right corner where he looked a lot more comfortable. It wasn't a straight swap with Jones coming in for Flowers and should not be evaluated as such.

 

[getnasty]

If Trey Flowers played the same game that Sydney Jones just did people would be outraged.

Nope. Jones while getting burned a couple times, still made more plays in one game than Flowers did in 3 games.

I don’t get the “white knighting” for a severely underperforming player (see Flowers).
Look, I’m sure he (Flowers) is a wonderful human being and a nice guy, I don’t doubt that for a minute…. But, his number 1 job is coverage, something he is piss poor at.

I dont get handing out David Blowies to a guy that comes in and plays worse then Flowers.

If you ask me who i want starting next week i would tell you Jones hands down but at the same time he was horrible yet because he's not Tre Flowers people think he balled out.

He didn’t play worse than Flowers though. Nobody here is saying that Jones didn’t make mistakes.
It’s just that Flowers set the bar so low anyone can step over it.

You are also comparing 1 game of mediocre at best play by Jones vs 3 years plus of craptastic play from Flowers.
Shouldn’t Jones be given the opportunity to be as bad as Flowers?

As i said i hope Sydney Jones starts this week. At the same time he was horrible, worse then any game Flowers has had this year and the busted coverage could be why he has had a hard time finding the field in the NFL.

 

[Maelstrom787]

ukeface:

So, you then admit that PFF is of dubious validity based on their tendency to grade Ifedi and Tre above what their performance seems to indicate?

Glad we hashed that out and that you agree.

Go be a lawyer or a politician. It would fit your style.

Go be something that doesn't require you to make cohesive points. It would fit yours. :2thumbs:

I will gladly debate you in any court room. You spin half truths with lies to fit your stories. You think you are smarter then you are. One of the narcissistic people on this board.

Aw. Guess I touched a nerve by simply pointing out that you're doing the exact same thing with PFF grades that you're accusing others of.

PFF grades are a tool. Sure. They kind of suck for the secondary players, but sure. They're not a good overall determination of talent or an infallible judge of performance, though. Period.

People who need their thinking done for them just latch on to them as gospel because they boil everything down into one number. Kind of like a Madden overall rating.

 

[Maelstrom787]

This board has become a hypocritical board more then it used to be.

When stating stats about a player they hate, they use PFF grades.

When they are defending a player who they like who struggled, they say "PFF is not right". Its odd.

Again I hope Jones rocks out. I just wanna win. I am not a fan of a player over my teams.

It's obvious who you're referencing here, and the record clearly shows me as one of Tre Flowers biggest supporters on this hellsite. Yet again, your narrative is oversimplified because it's easier to digest mentally. Starting to see a pattern here.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Regardless of my defense of Flowers, two things were abundantly clear:

Jones plays closer in coverage and is always closer to the ball.

Jones improves Reed by letting him play the side he's good at.

That's just straight up clear based on the game he watched. No one's slurping the dude, but there is clearly more room to grow there.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Week 4-

37.5.

I have seen people saying he did good and he looked very good. That is atrocious. He was the worst defender on the field. Hopefully he gets better.

Blink if your tre flowers

Im just being honest. Dont dick ride a dude with 37.5 PFF rating is my issue. I hope he does way better. I have no "vendetta" with any hawks player unless they do something off the field that is atrocious.

Would you even be able to have an adult conversation about what you actually saw on the field, or are your opinions literally defined solely by PFF?

 

[Shanegotyou11]

This board has become a hypocritical board more then it used to be.

When stating stats about a player they hate, they use PFF grades.

When they are defending a player who they like who struggled, they say "PFF is not right". Its odd.

Again I hope Jones rocks out. I just wanna win. I am not a fan of a player over my teams.

It's obvious who you're referencing here, and the record clearly shows me as one of Tre Flowers biggest supporters on this hellsite. Yet again, your narrative is oversimplified because it's easier to digest mentally. Starting to see a pattern here.

Actually i was not talking about you here. I was talking in general about people who use PFF when it benefits their point of view. Again this comment was about discussions currently and in the past when it was about Pocic and Ifedi. You assumed this was at you but i would directly say if it was. Anyways i hope Jones balls out.

 

[Shanegotyou11]

Week 4-

37.5.

I have seen people saying he did good and he looked very good. That is atrocious. He was the worst defender on the field. Hopefully he gets better.

Blink if your tre flowers

Im just being honest. Dont d*ck ride a dude with 37.5 PFF rating is my issue. I hope he does way better. I have no "vendetta" with any hawks player unless they do something off the field that is atrocious.

Would you even be able to have an adult conversation about what you actually saw on the field, or are your opinions literally defined solely by PFF?

Both. I saw Jones play some good man coverage and zone but i also saw him get mossed for a TD and screw up being in man when he was to be to in zone.

Like i have always said it is just 1 game. I am not the type to fire a coach or bench a player or label them a bust after a game or a year.