Uncle Si":2fk8hpjj said:
Hasselbeck":2fk8hpjj said:
Here was the signal we were throwing..
We came out in the shotgun with 3 WR's.
Yep. Sound FX captures the Patriots sideline seeing the set and sending Butler out
They just recognized the formation
Thomas144":2fk8hpjj said:
olyfan63":2fk8hpjj said:
Scottemojo":2fk8hpjj said:
This is silly.
It was a great play by Butler, they knew what was coming because the formation gave it away.
Humor me. Break down what it would take to accomplish signal-stealing in the SB49 setting. Some on this board are familiar with the details of the Patriots signal stealing that they lost a draft pick for a few years back. I'm not familiar with the details of what they were busted for. The only posts I found in a search of this board didn't really break it down at all. What exactly were they busted for, what methods of stealing signals, and how is what Belichick did then no longer possible now?
The Patriots were not penalized for stealing signals. Never have been. They were penalized for using a video camera on the sidelines. Polaroid still cameras were legal on the sidelines but not video cameras. Belichick's defense was that the rule states the video could not be used in the game, and he was not watching the video during the game. Goodell thought differently and fined them a first round draft pick and a ton of money after a three day "investigation".
At the time defensive signals were made with hand signals from the sideline, but now they use radios. Belichick was videoing the signal calls, he would argue, for future reference. Signal callers could have done a better job of disguising their signals. Third base coaches in baseball manage to do this.
LTH":2fk8hpjj said:
olyfan63 said:
It's a sincere question, looking for a football answer. Sports Hernia gave a football answer.
It would be great to have logistical/technical confirmation of why this couldn't be the case.
The answer is that Seattle did this concept out of a stack formation way too much the last few years.
They ran this play for a TD vs Carolina in the playoffs...for sure the Pats looked at that tape...
LTH
[/quote]
In between all the attacks, mocking, projection of other people's emotions, there have been some great football answers shared. Thank you for the breakdowns, explanations, etc. that were presented as football answers. I've quoted some of the particularly helpful ones above.
I've only heard snippets about the "stealing signals" accusations against Belichick from years past, never cared to pay attention to it. If what Thomas144 is saying is an accurate summary, the "violations" Belichick was rung up for involved entirely different technologies, i.e., looking to intercept, capture, and decode *hand signals* different teams use. Teams that took reasonable countermeasures at the time, would likely have defeated these efforts. Teams that didn't would pay the price of having the Patriots always seem to know exactly what's coming. The whole prosecution of the issue by Goodell sounds more like a "persecution". There would not seem to be any connection, especially given that these days, calls are radioed in, rather than signalled in. Of course, any team that doesn't take reasonable measures to secure how they communicate is asking to have their signals stolen. IIRC, our defense decoded some of Peyton Manning's calls last year in SBXLVIII to the point of knowing exactly what was coming.
It's rather amusing that people insist on projecting their emotional agendas onto me and some simple questions I was asking. If anything, I was in awe at the speed of recognition and execution by the Patriots. Now, it's more a combination of that and absolute disgust for Bevell, and the sheer stupidity of the play call, and his lack of situational awareness (e.g., Kearse is supposed to blow Browner off the line as part of a pick) FWIW, I personally did my mourning over the 2 days following SB49. My assumption going in was that stealing signals was likely implausible, but I wanted to understand WHY that was the case. I'm not an experienced X's and O's guy like many posters here, but I do understand individual matchups and team position group strengths and tendencies pretty well. Studying this play is fascinating and greatly educational, to me anyway, from the X's and O's point of view. So basically I just wanted the X's and O's from the technology, timeline, and logistics point of view, to increase my understanding, and have a clearer picture of what went down, and why, and what it means.
Should I apologize for not knowing some of the stuff I didn't know when I started this thread? HELL NO. But I do thank everyone who shared their FOOTBALL KNOWLEDGE and gave FOOTBALL ANSWERS. The nastiness, sarcasm, mocking, insults, etc., well, not my idea of fun, but absolutely worth the price of LEARNING. Can a .NETter who is less knowledgeable in a given area post a question asking others who know more to help fill in the blanks? Well, yes, but best be prepared to endure and sort through a lot of "other" less-than-helpful responses.
The more I study this play, and what happened, and what it means, the more indefensible the play call becomes. Some
of the things I've decided it means...
1) It truly is the stupidest play call in Super Bowl history; I thought this in the moment when it happened, but now there is tons of supporting data, primarily for reasons of readability/predictability, and because it was given priority over using our strengths, dancing with the ones that brung us, Lynch and Wilson's running, and Wilson's decisionmaking and taking care of the ball.
2) Darrell Bevell was unbelievably dense and predictable in that moment. We ran this same look against Carolina in the same situation? Kidding, right? Not kidding? We are really that predictable? If Bevell is that bad at choosing plays to exploit what the opponent gives us, no wonder we went 3-and-out repeatedly while the Patriots were coming from 10 down.
3) Wilson really is "Too Short" for certain kinds of plays and throws, and his height was a critical factor on this play. A 6'4" quarterback would have seen over the top of Britt and the NE LB to see that Butler was straight in line with the throw. Again, this is on Bevell, for asking Russell to do a type of play that is NOT his strength, and is high-risk in this area, with all the bodies packed into a compressed space.
4) Darrell Bevell's situational awareness is near zero. Kearse is supposed to blow Browner off the line as part of the pick play, while being outweighed 30 lbs? Really?
Darrell Bevell, the NE MVP of SB49.