STAND IN THE POCKET AND THROW THE BALL

[Anthony!]

I don't feel like going through this whole thread but are people still claiming Wilson didn't play well yesterday? Seriously? He had a passer rating over 120, would of had another TD if not for a ticky tack call on Kearse, had zero turnovers and flat out played great football against a very good defense that was flying all over the place.

He wasn't inaccurate yesterday which was huge. He's been good the past two games but he's still struggling with owning the pocket.

Passer Rating doesn't include sacks, hits or hurries, whether they were coverage, missed assignments or RW holding onto the ball or not speeding up his progression. Not a complete picture of his game.

Considering PC just said he was under siege all day yesterday I will go with oline. 7 sacks and 11 hits. That is way to much on only 22 attempts.

 

[Uncle Si]

I don't feel like going through this whole thread but are people still claiming Wilson didn't play well yesterday? Seriously? He had a passer rating over 120, would of had another TD if not for a ticky tack call on Kearse, had zero turnovers and flat out played great football against a very good defense that was flying all over the place.

Well, Montana was telling us all how Stanton's taller so he can do more things.

hes probably right. I doubt Wilson could change the light bulb in his kitchen without a ladder... but Drew Stanton? Drew Stanton doesnt need a ladder

 

[Chapow]

I don't feel like going through this whole thread but are people still claiming Wilson didn't play well yesterday? Seriously? He had a passer rating over 120, would of had another TD if not for a ticky tack call on Kearse, had zero turnovers and flat out played great football against a very good defense that was flying all over the place.

Well, Montana was telling us all how Stanton's taller so he can do more things.

hes probably right. I doubt Wilson could change the light bulb in his kitchen without a ladder... but Drew Stanton? Drew Stanton doesnt need a ladder

Stanton could totally grab that box of Mac n Cheese off the top shelf in the grocery store. Russell Wilson though? Pfffft, nope.

 

[canfan]

@rightbench and SeaChase

Your reasoning is bad, and you should feel bad.

The Hawks have one of the worst passing offenses in the league. What type of logic is necessary? I know it's not all Wilson's fault but he certainly contributes.

Its funny you know its not all Wilsons fault, but yet that is all you talk about. Wilson is last on the list of issues in our passing game.

It's funny how you won't admit any of it is his fault.

Just to make sure I'm not missing something....we won, right? And now we are going to complain about "how" we won against the team with the best record in the NFL and an aggressive defense that has stuffed almost every team they faced? All right then!

 

[hgwellz12]

I absolutely HATE what FF has done to the game. Hate it.

 

[Throwdown]

I can't believe I read "take the sack"

...wut?

 

[Chapow]

I absolutely HATE what FF has done to the game. Hate it.

I don't get it. What could possibly be a better indicator of how good a QB is than how many points he scores in FF or how many yards he throws for?

 

[Ozzy]

Well, Montana was telling us all how Stanton's taller so he can do more things. I know that was said yesterday. I cant remember what else...

Yeah I just read through that thread and feel dumber for doing so.

Sonic I realize passer rating isn't everything but I haven't heard a single soul say Wilson didn't play fantastic football yesterday all things considered outside of THIS forum. Was he perfect? Obviously not and he can get better but he played very well all things considered. I think what gets forgotten is when someone says "he needs to stop up in the pocket and see on that play he didn't!" Well what people forget is that the 6 previous plays the center(and RT, RG probably too) got destroyed so it's hard to fault Wilson for preparing for the worst. It's a cumulative effect not individual plays. This gets missed from the Anti-Wilson crowd. It's funny though most of the anti-Wilson crowd will jump up and down after one bad pass but ignore the fact that EVERY QB misses some. Anti-WIlson crowd love Luck(Actually I do too) but ignore the fact that he had a wide open guy for what would of been a 77 yard TD. If that was Wilson we would have 3 threads about it.

That paragraph is a mess but I don't feel like changing it. To summarize: Wilson played great football yesterday. Not perfect, but very good football. Probably the best I've seen him look in a month. He looked like the Wilson of old. The mistakes he did make are very correctable. I think he has a tremendous stretch run to end the year.

 

[SonicHawk]

Wilson played good football yesterday. When our defense plays GREAT football, that's all you need.

The problem right now is Wilson isn't correcting some of these mistakes. His accuracy is back. He hasn't made stupid decisions on where to throw the ball, he just continues to not throw it.

He also held onto the ball too much on the read-options. 80% of the time that ball has to go to Lynch, not 80% to RW.

We won and Wilson played well enough for us to win by 2 possessions. I'm ok with that.

 

[Anthony!]

Well this is what it is around here. No matter how well Wilson plays, a select few will only want to talk about what he did not do. Even if most of that is made up or wrong.

So lets make it simple

7 sacks, 11 hits
12/22 77% complt%, 211 yards, 9.6 ypa 1 td qb rating 121.6, 73 yards rushing. That is a great game for any QB. You want to argue about the sacks fine argue but keep in mind the facts will show they were on the Oline and coverage per the announcers, PC, Millan, Huard, Moon. All people who get to see the complete game find that shows everything on the field. You want to argue about the pass to Norwood fine, but keep in mind those same experts that see all the game film said the same thing, the pass was put were it needed to be to give Norwood a chance and keep it away form the oncoming safety. However the reality is you few do not care what the truth or facts are only your own made up stuff so you can find a way to say Wilson played bad or made a mistake. He has mad mistakes this year, had a few games were he played bad, But yesterday was not one of the. In a game were Lynch was MIA, the oline was really bad, and our WR were not doing much without Wilsons scrambling, against the top team in the NFL and a top 5 defense, Wilson was Great.

 

[HawkerD]

Everyone sees something different, but by my count only one of the six sacks was for sure on the offensive line.

The other six (in particular order):

1 was a bad protection call. The Cardinals showed a six man blitz, but only rushed 4. The Oline blocked left, leaving a free rusher to Wilson on the right. That's either on the Oline or Wilson.

1 was an untouched 6th rusher. The Oline blocked their five guys. Wilson needed to change the play, protection, or get the ball out quicker to Turbin on the slant on the goaline.

1 was a perfect pocket that Wilson tried running out of early into a cardinals defender. Could have been a coverage sack. I'll need to watch the all-22 to know for sure.

1 was a planned screen pass to Lynch with routes by the receivers. The oline leaked out and Wilson was to late to get the ball to his RB. The play almost looked like Wilson forget there were defenders crashing in even tho it's designed that way. It's a huge WTF play.

1 was a play near the 10 yard line. The pocket is clean for the play call, but it's tight coverage. Wilsons best chance was a corner route by Richardson or to simply throw the ball into the stands, but he scrambles out of the pocket and can't out run the defender.

1 was a play action with Cooper Helfet making a tough block, forcing Russell to move. The pressure is coming from his left, so Wilson scrambles into that pressure to the left and finds open space, but the route design is all to the right so there's not a receiver anywhere close to Russell. He slips and takes a small sack.

If anyone sees otherwise, I'd like to hear it, but for these 6 plays, specifically, the Oline was doing its job. You could argue 5, maybe 6 of these sacks were preventable by smarter QB play. Of course wilson prevented a couple sack, as well, but if we are looking at the sack numbers and the areas to improve on these plays, this is how I saw it.

In all fairness now you have to count all the times a non mobile QB would have been sacked and how on those occasions RW made sweet Lemonade out of sour lemons. But that would weaken your argument, wouldn't it?

 

[SeaChase]

Well, Montana was telling us all how Stanton's taller so he can do more things. I know that was said yesterday. I cant remember what else...[/quote]

Yeah I just read through that thread and feel dumber for doing so.

Sonic I realize passer rating isn't everything but I haven't heard a single soul say Wilson didn't play fantastic football yesterday all things considered outside of THIS forum. Was he perfect? Obviously not and he can get better but he played very well all things considered. I think what gets forgotten is when someone says "he needs to stop up in the pocket and see on that play he didn't!" Well what people forget is that the 6 previous plays the center(and RT, RG probably too) got destroyed so it's hard to fault Wilson for preparing for the worst. It's a cumulative effect not individual plays. This gets missed from the Anti-Wilson crowd. It's funny though most of the anti-Wilson crowd will jump up and down after one bad pass but ignore the fact that EVERY QB misses some. Anti-WIlson crowd love Luck(Actually I do too) but ignore the fact that he had a wide open guy for what would of been a 77 yard TD. If that was Wilson we would have 3 threads about it.

That paragraph is a mess but I don't feel like changing it. To summarize: Wilson played great football yesterday. Not perfect, but very good football. Probably the best I've seen him look in a month. He looked like the Wilson of old. The mistakes he did make are very correctable. I think he has a tremendous stretch run to end the year.[/quote]


You can't just lump people into a category such as anti-Wilson and then make asinine accusations. The fact that you do says a lot about how you see things. I'm actually not a Luck fan, I like Wilson better. :sarcasm_off:
So you see how your stereo typing works? It doesn't that's why it's called stereo typing.

 

[Uncle Si]

Everyone sees something different, but by my count only one of the six sacks was for sure on the offensive line.

The other six (in particular order):

1 was a bad protection call. The Cardinals showed a six man blitz, but only rushed 4. The Oline blocked left, leaving a free rusher to Wilson on the right. That's either on the Oline or Wilson.

1 was an untouched 6th rusher. The Oline blocked their five guys. Wilson needed to change the play, protection, or get the ball out quicker to Turbin on the slant on the goaline.

1 was a perfect pocket that Wilson tried running out of early into a cardinals defender. Could have been a coverage sack. I'll need to watch the all-22 to know for sure.

1 was a planned screen pass to Lynch with routes by the receivers. The oline leaked out and Wilson was to late to get the ball to his RB. The play almost looked like Wilson forget there were defenders crashing in even tho it's designed that way. It's a huge WTF play.

1 was a play near the 10 yard line. The pocket is clean for the play call, but it's tight coverage. Wilsons best chance was a corner route by Richardson or to simply throw the ball into the stands, but he scrambles out of the pocket and can't out run the defender.

1 was a play action with Cooper Helfet making a tough block, forcing Russell to move. The pressure is coming from his left, so Wilson scrambles into that pressure to the left and finds open space, but the route design is all to the right so there's not a receiver anywhere close to Russell. He slips and takes a small sack.

If anyone sees otherwise, I'd like to hear it, but for these 6 plays, specifically, the Oline was doing its job. You could argue 5, maybe 6 of these sacks were preventable by smarter QB play. Of course wilson prevented a couple sack, as well, but if we are looking at the sack numbers and the areas to improve on these plays, this is how I saw it.

In all fairness now you have to count all the times a non mobile QB would have been sacked and how on those occasions RW made sweet Lemonade out of sour lemons. But that would weaken your argument, wouldn't it?

or even moreso, count all the times the Oline did not do their job, and Wilson has turned an obvious sack not only into a positive play, but usually a big gain

i get the feeling that some on here just dont enjoy football. we can pick away at any performance and find flaws. and it looks like a handful on here would prefer to do that instead of recognizing the positive

to each his own, but noone engrossed in the negative is changing their mind. its their narrative.

 

[SonicHawk]

Well this is what it is around here. No matter how well Wilson plays, a select few will only want to talk about what he did not do. Even if most of that is made up or wrong.

So lets make it simple

7 sacks, 11 hits
12/22 77% complt%, 211 yards, 9.6 ypa 1 td qb rating 121.6, 73 yards rushing. That is a great game for any QB. You want to argue about the sacks fine argue but keep in mind the facts will show they were on the Oline and coverage per the announcers, PC, Millan, Huard, Moon. All people who get to see the complete game find that shows everything on the field. You want to argue about the pass to Norwood fine, but keep in mind those same experts that see all the game film said the same thing, the pass was put were it needed to be to give Norwood a chance and keep it away form the oncoming safety. However the reality is you few do not care what the truth or facts are only your own made up stuff so you can find a way to say Wilson played bad or made a mistake. He has mad mistakes this year, had a few games were he played bad, But yesterday was not one of the. In a game were Lynch was MIA, the oline was really bad, and our WR were not doing much without Wilsons scrambling, against the top team in the NFL and a top 5 defense, Wilson was Great.

Wilson was great?

According to a simple QBR statistic (Let's start here, I'm certainly open to more stats and resources):

He had the 12th best QBR this week. 12th. That's great? He has the 14th best QBR this season. 14th!!! MORE GREATNESS!!

In fact, it was so great that it was the 2,635th best QBR game since 2006! AMAZING!!! WOOoijdfaiosjdfoas

It was only a less great than David Carr's memorable performance in the 26-20 loss against the Titans in 2006. You don't remember that game? How could you not? Carr went 17/23 for 140 yards. AMAZING!!!

http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr/_/type/player-week

 

[lobohawk]

Well this is what it is around here. No matter how well Wilson plays, a select few will only want to talk about what he did not do. Even if most of that is made up or wrong.

So lets make it simple

7 sacks, 11 hits
12/22 77% complt%, 211 yards, 9.6 ypa 1 td qb rating 121.6, 73 yards rushing. That is a great game for any QB. You want to argue about the sacks fine argue but keep in mind the facts will show they were on the Oline and coverage per the announcers, PC, Millan, Huard, Moon. All people who get to see the complete game find that shows everything on the field. You want to argue about the pass to Norwood fine, but keep in mind those same experts that see all the game film said the same thing, the pass was put were it needed to be to give Norwood a chance and keep it away form the oncoming safety. However the reality is you few do not care what the truth or facts are only your own made up stuff so you can find a way to say Wilson played bad or made a mistake. He has mad mistakes this year, had a few games were he played bad, But yesterday was not one of the. In a game were Lynch was MIA, the oline was really bad, and our WR were not doing much without Wilsons scrambling, against the top team in the NFL and a top 5 defense, Wilson was Great.

Wilson was great?

According to a simple QBR statistic (Let's start here, I'm certainly open to more stats and resources):

He had the 12th best QBR this week. 12th. That's great? He has the 14th best QBR this season. 14th!!! MORE GREATNESS!!

In fact, it was so great that it was the 2,635th best QBR game since 2006! AMAZING!!! WOOoijdfaiosjdfoas

It was only a less great than David Carr's memorable performance in the 26-20 loss against the Titans in 2006. You don't remember that game? How could you not? Carr went 17/23 for 140 yards. AMAZING!!!

http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr/_/type/player-week

Sorry, I just can't take QBR seriously.

Mark Sanchez was rated at 8th best. Sure he threw for 307, but he only had 1 TD and 2 INTs. Basically nothing rushing. And this was against the fearsome TN defense.

 

[Recon_Hawk]

Everyone sees something different, but by my count only one of the six sacks was for sure on the offensive line.

The other six (in particular order):

1 was a bad protection call. The Cardinals showed a six man blitz, but only rushed 4. The Oline blocked left, leaving a free rusher to Wilson on the right. That's either on the Oline or Wilson.

1 was an untouched 6th rusher. The Oline blocked their five guys. Wilson needed to change the play, protection, or get the ball out quicker to Turbin on the slant on the goaline.

1 was a perfect pocket that Wilson tried running out of early into a cardinals defender. Could have been a coverage sack. I'll need to watch the all-22 to know for sure.

1 was a planned screen pass to Lynch with routes by the receivers. The oline leaked out and Wilson was to late to get the ball to his RB. The play almost looked like Wilson forget there were defenders crashing in even tho it's designed that way. It's a huge WTF play.

1 was a play near the 10 yard line. The pocket is clean for the play call, but it's tight coverage. Wilsons best chance was a corner route by Richardson or to simply throw the ball into the stands, but he scrambles out of the pocket and can't out run the defender.

1 was a play action with Cooper Helfet making a tough block, forcing Russell to move. The pressure is coming from his left, so Wilson scrambles into that pressure to the left and finds open space, but the route design is all to the right so there's not a receiver anywhere close to Russell. He slips and takes a small sack.

If anyone sees otherwise, I'd like to hear it, but for these 6 plays, specifically, the Oline was doing its job. You could argue 5, maybe 6 of these sacks were preventable by smarter QB play. Of course wilson prevented a couple sack, as well, but if we are looking at the sack numbers and the areas to improve on these plays, this is how I saw it.

In all fairness now you have to count all the times a non mobile QB would have been sacked and how on those occasions RW made sweet Lemonade out of sour lemons. But that would weaken your argument, wouldn't it?

That wasn't the point of my posts. I want to show that there's areas Wilson can improve and areas where it's not all the Offensive lines fault. I guarantee Car Smith isn't avoiding this plays cause Russell did well on other bad protection plays.

Some people haven't watched the game, but would look at the sack and QB hit numbers and think the Oline played horrible.

The fact is, they faced a heavy, heavy blitz team in the Cardinals. QB hits were bound to happen, but how Russell played would depend on a lot of that. Was he making the right protection calls? Was he hitting his hot read? Was he avoiding big sacks? That's what I wanted to point out.

And mostly I want to defend an offensive line that is heavily scrutinized by people who aren't seeing every detail of the game on first watch, but defending the Oline means pointing out Wilson's faults occasionally and people don't like that much here. It's much easier hating on the big guys up front.

 

[Anthony!]

Well this is what it is around here. No matter how well Wilson plays, a select few will only want to talk about what he did not do. Even if most of that is made up or wrong.

So lets make it simple

7 sacks, 11 hits
12/22 77% complt%, 211 yards, 9.6 ypa 1 td qb rating 121.6, 73 yards rushing. That is a great game for any QB. You want to argue about the sacks fine argue but keep in mind the facts will show they were on the Oline and coverage per the announcers, PC, Millan, Huard, Moon. All people who get to see the complete game find that shows everything on the field. You want to argue about the pass to Norwood fine, but keep in mind those same experts that see all the game film said the same thing, the pass was put were it needed to be to give Norwood a chance and keep it away form the oncoming safety. However the reality is you few do not care what the truth or facts are only your own made up stuff so you can find a way to say Wilson played bad or made a mistake. He has mad mistakes this year, had a few games were he played bad, But yesterday was not one of the. In a game were Lynch was MIA, the oline was really bad, and our WR were not doing much without Wilsons scrambling, against the top team in the NFL and a top 5 defense, Wilson was Great.

Wilson was great?

According to a simple QBR statistic (Let's start here, I'm certainly open to more stats and resources):

He had the 12th best QBR this week. 12th. That's great? He has the 14th best QBR this season. 14th!!! MORE GREATNESS!!

In fact, it was so great that it was the 2,635th best QBR game since 2006! AMAZING!!! WOOoijdfaiosjdfoas

It was only a less great than David Carr's memorable performance in the 26-20 loss against the Titans in 2006. You don't remember that game? How could you not? Carr went 17/23 for 140 yards. AMAZING!!!

http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr/_/type/player-week

Dude QBR penalizes the QB for every sack no matter what, penalizes a QB for every throw awat no matter what and then arbitrarily decideds which pays mean more than others. You are really going to take that seriously?

her you go the measuring stick that has been used for years

Qb rating 121.6 enough said great.

 

[SeaChase]

So if a Qb throws for 4 tds and like 600 yards yet has a QBR of say like 75 then he sucks?

 

[Recon_Hawk]

Everyone sees something different, but by my count only one of the six sacks was for sure on the offensive line.

The other six (in particular order):

1 was a bad protection call. The Cardinals showed a six man blitz, but only rushed 4. The Oline blocked left, leaving a free rusher to Wilson on the right. That's either on the Oline or Wilson.

1 was an untouched 6th rusher. The Oline blocked their five guys. Wilson needed to change the play, protection, or get the ball out quicker to Turbin on the slant on the goaline.

1 was a perfect pocket that Wilson tried running out of early into a cardinals defender. Could have been a coverage sack. I'll need to watch the all-22 to know for sure.

1 was a planned screen pass to Lynch with routes by the receivers. The oline leaked out and Wilson was to late to get the ball to his RB. The play almost looked like Wilson forget there were defenders crashing in even tho it's designed that way. It's a huge WTF play.

1 was a play near the 10 yard line. The pocket is clean for the play call, but it's tight coverage. Wilsons best chance was a corner route by Richardson or to simply throw the ball into the stands, but he scrambles out of the pocket and can't out run the defender.

1 was a play action with Cooper Helfet making a tough block, forcing Russell to move. The pressure is coming from his left, so Wilson scrambles into that pressure to the left and finds open space, but the route design is all to the right so there's not a receiver anywhere close to Russell. He slips and takes a small sack.

If anyone sees otherwise, I'd like to hear it, but for these 6 plays, specifically, the Oline was doing its job. You could argue 5, maybe 6 of these sacks were preventable by smarter QB play. Of course wilson prevented a couple sack, as well, but if we are looking at the sack numbers and the areas to improve on these plays, this is how I saw it.

In all fairness now you have to count all the times a non mobile QB would have been sacked and how on those occasions RW made sweet Lemonade out of sour lemons. But that would weaken your argument, wouldn't it?

or even moreso, count all the times the Oline did not do their job, and Wilson has turned an obvious sack not only into a positive play, but usually a big gain

i get the feeling that some on here just dont enjoy football. we can pick away at any performance and find flaws. and it looks like a handful on here would prefer to do that instead of recognizing the positive

to each his own, but noone engrossed in the negative is changing their mind. its their narrative.

I love football. I played it from Middle School through High School. On of the reasons I point out the "negative" is because that's how a player/coach views the game which more how I relate to sports than just as a fan watching it once on Sunday. I try and find the areas of improvement because I want to see the best ball achievable.

 

[Anthony!]

Everyone sees something different, but by my count only one of the six sacks was for sure on the offensive line.

The other six (in particular order):

1 was a bad protection call. The Cardinals showed a six man blitz, but only rushed 4. The Oline blocked left, leaving a free rusher to Wilson on the right. That's either on the Oline or Wilson.

1 was an untouched 6th rusher. The Oline blocked their five guys. Wilson needed to change the play, protection, or get the ball out quicker to Turbin on the slant on the goaline.

1 was a perfect pocket that Wilson tried running out of early into a cardinals defender. Could have been a coverage sack. I'll need to watch the all-22 to know for sure.

1 was a planned screen pass to Lynch with routes by the receivers. The oline leaked out and Wilson was to late to get the ball to his RB. The play almost looked like Wilson forget there were defenders crashing in even tho it's designed that way. It's a huge WTF play.

1 was a play near the 10 yard line. The pocket is clean for the play call, but it's tight coverage. Wilsons best chance was a corner route by Richardson or to simply throw the ball into the stands, but he scrambles out of the pocket and can't out run the defender.

1 was a play action with Cooper Helfet making a tough block, forcing Russell to move. The pressure is coming from his left, so Wilson scrambles into that pressure to the left and finds open space, but the route design is all to the right so there's not a receiver anywhere close to Russell. He slips and takes a small sack.

If anyone sees otherwise, I'd like to hear it, but for these 6 plays, specifically, the Oline was doing its job. You could argue 5, maybe 6 of these sacks were preventable by smarter QB play. Of course wilson prevented a couple sack, as well, but if we are looking at the sack numbers and the areas to improve on these plays, this is how I saw it.

In all fairness now you have to count all the times a non mobile QB would have been sacked and how on those occasions RW made sweet Lemonade out of sour lemons. But that would weaken your argument, wouldn't it?

That wasn't the point of my posts. I want to show that there's areas Wilson can improve and areas where it's not all the Offensive lines fault. I guarantee Car Smith isn't avoiding this plays cause Russell did well on other bad protection plays.

Some people haven't watched the game, but would look at the sack and QB hit numbers and think the Oline played horrible.

The fact is, they faced a heavy, heavy blitz team in the Cardinals. QB hits were bound to happen, but how Russell played would depend on a lot of that. Was he making the right protection calls? Was he hitting his hot read? Was he avoiding big sacks? That's what I wanted to point out.

And mostly I want to defend an offensive line that is heavily scrutinized by people who aren't seeing every detail of the game on first watch, but defending the Oline means pointing out Wilson's faults occasionally and people don't like that much here. It's much easier hating on the big guys up front.

That is becsue they have not been ranke dhigher than 19th in pass blocking in over 2 years. Last year they did an ananlysis on all his Sacks adn showed only 1 was on him

http://blogs.seattletimes.com/seahawks/ ... crambling/

I can guarentee you those numbers will be close the same this year as well. Some of you analysis I take issue with but will not bother to go through it. By the way besides the oline, and coverage sacks you are also assuming hot reads were available and changing the play was avaialble. The point is made, no matter how you slice it most of whathappened yesertday was on the oline or coverage. I can think of only 1 thatmight have been on Wilson, but even that is in question as he had barely planted after dropping back adn there was pressure in his face. You are also assuming Wilson did not change the blocking but the oline did not hear, or listen or do their jobs anyway. Lost of assumption. Again I will go with what Huard said this morning that being that the oline was really bad.