SEC DPOTY: Michael Sam announced he is gay

[SonicHawk]

There have already been plenty of gay players in the NFL. There was no need for separate locker rooms then either.

If there was a woman on an NFL team i would expect she wouldn't be given a separate locker room either.

A player having an issue with showering with a teammate because they think said teammate is going to try and make a sexual advance is their issue. Have you never been in a coed locker room?

 

[SonicHawk]

Lets not pretend this issue is more than the acceptance of a openly gay payer.

 

[Cartire]

So you dismiss the point that kearly made about the serial killer. Which I thought was a perfect example.

Everyone knows there are gay people, but no one knew who. Now that they do, it does change the dynamic of the shower/locker room situation rather you like it or not. Right and wrong do not have solid borders in this situation.

But, I do attest. If you believe that men and women should use coed locker rooms and showers with no issues, then at least it supports your argument to "get over it".

But please stop pretending you can lower anyone's argument to a simple talking point of "acceptance of an openly gay player." It's not about him being gay. Most people could care less. But most people would still feel uncomfortable in a shower setting, just like they would if it involved women.

 

[SonicHawk]

Some don't feel comfortable showering with other men... Is that really your point?

 

[Cartire]

Some don't feel comfortable showering with other men... Is that really your point?

No, my point is centuries of repressed sexualism (male,female;male,male;female,female) all of a sudden becoming a non-point because people don't want to act homophobic, and say that everyone should just get over it.

If your viewpoint is that everyone should be able to shower together, regardless of sexuality, gender, ect, then you are starting a revolution much bigger then just a single gay guy. Thus why it's not as simple as, "get over it".

There is more to this debate then just Michael Sam and the acceptance of gay people. It's a debate over our societies overall practice of sexuality in general and the taboo nature we approach it.

 

[Scottemojo]

If Sam was available in the 7th I think there would be a good chance we would draft him.

You're going to pass up Sam because you think he's not the perfect body for the position? We drafted Irvin in the first round, I don't think Sam in the 7th is that far fetched.

I'm not a draft expert but draft experts suggest he's anywhere from 3rd-6th on football skills and measurables only. He's certainly not going to be drafted HIGHER since he came out.

That isn't an answer to the question. If the Seahawks don't draft him, will it be because of his sexuality?

 

[SonicHawk]

Some don't feel comfortable showering with other men... Is that really your point?

No, my point is centuries of repressed sexualism (male,female;male,male;female,female) all of a sudden becoming a non-point because people don't want to act homophobic, and say that everyone should just get over it.

If your viewpoint is that everyone should be able to shower together, regardless of sexuality, gender, ect, then you are starting a revolution much bigger then just a single gay guy. Thus why it's not as simple as, "get over it".

There is more to this debate then just Michael Sam and the acceptance of gay people. It's a debate over our societies overall practice of sexuality in general and the taboo nature we approach it.

I didn't say it wasn't a non-point, I said they need to get over it.

I'm talking specifically about an NFL locker room. Gays have played in the NFL, showed with other men, this hasn't been an issue.

 

[SonicHawk]

If Sam was available in the 7th I think there would be a good chance we would draft him.

You're going to pass up Sam because you think he's not the perfect body for the position? We drafted Irvin in the first round, I don't think Sam in the 7th is that far fetched.

I'm not a draft expert but draft experts suggest he's anywhere from 3rd-6th on football skills and measurables only. He's certainly not going to be drafted HIGHER since he came out.

That isn't an answer to the question. If the Seahawks don't draft him, will it be because of his sexuality?

No. I'm confident Pete & JS would draft him if he fit a need and was value at some point in the draft to them. I don't think Pete, John & Paul are like everyone in the league though.

 

[Scottemojo]

If Sam was available in the 7th I think there would be a good chance we would draft him.

You're going to pass up Sam because you think he's not the perfect body for the position? We drafted Irvin in the first round, I don't think Sam in the 7th is that far fetched.

I'm not a draft expert but draft experts suggest he's anywhere from 3rd-6th on football skills and measurables only. He's certainly not going to be drafted HIGHER since he came out.

That isn't an answer to the question. If the Seahawks don't draft him, will it be because of his sexuality?

No. I'm confident Pete & JS would draft him if he fit a need and was value at some point in the draft to them. I don't think Pete, John & Paul are like everyone in the league though.

I look at his numbers and his video and I see an athlete they would never want, not in any round. Seriously. Far too slow for an NFC West with Kaepernick. I don't care about his accolades, awards, or sack totals. He looks like a smaller Derrick Morgan on slow juice. You mention Irvin, who actually had low sack totals his final year relatively speaking. But Irvin was an explosive player on tape in a shitty 3-3-5 defense that had him playing a position meant for a guy 50 pounds bigger. Pete and John knew that, just like with Sam they will know he put up good numbers in a great defense with some damn good players making his average athleticism look better than it really is.

So, knowing he wouldn't be wanted here for very valid football reasons, I have trouble assuming everyone who doesn't take him is not making a proper decision. Which means if he isn't drafted, I can't just assume it is because he is a homosexual.
Draft experts who called him a 3rd to 6th round player did so BEFORE the combine. Where he showed a lack of explosion. You can call those numbers meaningless all you want, there would be no combine if they were meaningless. Had you ever heard of Dontari Poe before the combine? The combine wasn't menaingless for him. It doesn't mean everything, but it isn't meaningless. In fact, considering the NFL track record of QBs who win the Heisman, I would call the awards more meaningless than the combine.

I hope somebody does draft him, or sign him if he goes undrafted. I hope no team crosses him off their list because of sexuality. But from what I watched, he is an NFL type body with very marginal NFL athleticism. Guys like that don't get drafted or even signed every year.

 

[kearly]

As far as Sam goes, Pete Carroll said himself on the record that Sam's sexuality WILL hurt his draft stock and that the fear of distractions are very real. Pete's a pretty progressive guy, both in football and his assumed political leanings, so I really doubt he's some homophobic gay-hater with an agenda.

Even if Sam went on the record right now and said "PSYKE! I'm not gay!", we believed him and it no longer hurt his stock due to the distraction factor, I'd still have him down in the UDFA range as a prospect. No consistency in his production with CFL athleticism. His being 6'2" makes his life tough at DE as well. Only a few 6'2" DEs in the game and when you do find them they are special athletes.

So then you agree, all bathrooms/locker rooms should be coed. I mean really, the separation of women and men is just like the separation of blacks and whites.....1

I generally agree with you that this isn't an equal rights issue, it's a group dynamic issue. We already have gay players in the NFL, but being closeted gay is basically the same as being straight in that setting.

Just be forward thinking and have accommodations. Shower curtains, a separate changing room for players who can't handle it. And be prepared for mental midget homophobes that could turn a situation ugly in no time. All of that is quite easy to manage, except for the last thing, which is darn near impossible to foresee and prevent.

The good news for Sam is that Jason Collins finally got a job in the NBA again. It was to a team he played for previously for many years, so that helped. An NFL locker room is about 6 times larger though.